I think the council and Sports England paid around £100m to build the stadium, then when city took over they paid around £25m to convert it into a football stadium. And we have a 250 year lease on the ground.rastus said:
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City and debt
- Thread starter eddie c 123
- Start date
lionheart
Well-Known Member
You obviously haven't been to the United Arab Emirates recently. There definitely is a credit crunch here, which has affected all property and equity investors including the Royal family. Its arguably worse than in Europe and the USA. As for the previous poster saying that we are fortunate not to own our ground, that makes no sense. Surely it would be better if we did? Where is the gain in paying rent to the owners?rastus said:With the credit crunch they may buy the stadium and surrounding area from the council for agood price. An oportune time to buy, there is no credit crisis for our owners
Dubai Blue
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Admittedly, Dubai is fooked, but Abu Dhabi seems to be pushing on through it ok.lionheart said:You obviously haven't been to the United Arab Emirates recently. There definitely is a credit crunch here, which has affected all property and equity investors including the Royal family. Its arguably worse than in Europe and the USA. As for the previous poster saying that we are fortunate not to own our ground, that makes no sense. Surely it would be better if we did? Where is the gain in paying rent to the owners?rastus said:With the credit crunch they may buy the stadium and surrounding area from the council for agood price. An oportune time to buy, there is no credit crisis for our owners
As for the ground, I think he means from a long-term security point of view, i.e. ADUG could do whatever they want to us but, even in the very worst case scenario, they could never sell our home from underneath us. Similar to how a group of Chelsea fans actually own the land the Stamford Bridge pitch is laid on in order to stop the ground being sold by unscrupulous owners.
EalingBlue2
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Uniteds problem is two fold!
1) they completely backended the payments on the debt to make the initial takeover easy and on the believe they could improve the business and refinance, that meant that whilst early on in the regime of Ginger Malcolm they only had to pay about 20m a year this goes up to payments of over 100m in 2008-2010. This means that they are under severe financial strain towards the end of the loan.
2)Refinancing got a lot harder too, meaning they are less likely to get good rates, less likely to get good terms and more likely to have to give more covenants, guarantees etc
It is really not a good place to be but ultimately the new owners were getting stick and backended to put off the problem and on the assumption that economically and football wise things would only get better!
1) they completely backended the payments on the debt to make the initial takeover easy and on the believe they could improve the business and refinance, that meant that whilst early on in the regime of Ginger Malcolm they only had to pay about 20m a year this goes up to payments of over 100m in 2008-2010. This means that they are under severe financial strain towards the end of the loan.
2)Refinancing got a lot harder too, meaning they are less likely to get good rates, less likely to get good terms and more likely to have to give more covenants, guarantees etc
It is really not a good place to be but ultimately the new owners were getting stick and backended to put off the problem and on the assumption that economically and football wise things would only get better!
EalingBlue2
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- Joined
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- 5,571
Lionheart I would say that strictly financially given the returns you could make on the 150m i would take to buy our ground that any rational business would work under our deal and would not buy the land. A 250 year lease to all intents and purposes is owning the stadium and bearing in mind the ROI they could get on this money it would certainly be far greater than we are paying the council. There is no rational reason to buy the ground unless we are stopped from doing what we want to the stadium (ie expand)
There are sound economic reasons why most business's do not want to own grounds even if they have the money.
Our deal is not even a commercial deal it is a steal and we would be daft to change it unless we are turning away 15000 every week and are denied to expand.
Put it this was we would have to pay 150m to own it and that would in effect at a reasonable cost of capital or opportunity cost be like paying 15m a year rent. We are currently paying 50% of profit on gates over 35000.
So even if we sell 45000 for 20 games at 30 quid that is still only 3 million, hence buying the ground would cost us 12m a year, our sheikh is way way too smart a businessman to throw away that sort of money. In fact even at 5m a year rent cost we would still be better putting the 150m in the bank than buying the ground!!!!!!!!!
There are sound economic reasons why most business's do not want to own grounds even if they have the money.
Our deal is not even a commercial deal it is a steal and we would be daft to change it unless we are turning away 15000 every week and are denied to expand.
Put it this was we would have to pay 150m to own it and that would in effect at a reasonable cost of capital or opportunity cost be like paying 15m a year rent. We are currently paying 50% of profit on gates over 35000.
So even if we sell 45000 for 20 games at 30 quid that is still only 3 million, hence buying the ground would cost us 12m a year, our sheikh is way way too smart a businessman to throw away that sort of money. In fact even at 5m a year rent cost we would still be better putting the 150m in the bank than buying the ground!!!!!!!!!
In the UAE the credit crunch is definitely effecting Dubai as they have invested in their infra – structure building property etc for when their oil runs out in 5 years they hope tourism will take over……………Abu Dhabi is virtually unaffected as they own 12% of the world oil and have supplies for the next 90 years.
The ADUG Sovereign fund is worth 700 billion and Sheikh Mansour is Chairman, so far he has spent 200 million on transfer fees and 400 million on contracts, all of which is a gift and will not effect the balance sheet, he plans further spending thus –
3 top quality signings in January
The redevelopment of Sport City and Clayton Analine down the road (a massive site)
He will fund further in the summer
Why - because he loves football and the underdogs in any situation, and he wants to raise the profile of Abu Dhabi, note the final Grand Prix will be there, they are hoping for major soccer tournaments, they already host top quality golf and tennis events.
What he has spent so far is small change to him and there is more to come.
He has already stated this is a 10 year project and he will succeed, he always does. He is honourable and will not walk away from a project.
In 10 years time he may well move on but he will have made us self financing and we well be unrecognisable from the club we are today.
He will probably leave us with a couple of Billion it trust to see us over.
Khaldoon has told Sheikh Mansour how welcome we have made him and the banner was greatly received in Abu Dhabi.
We are extremely lucky.
Abramovich and Berlusconi were so worried of the might of Sheikh Mansour they ran for help to Platini.
The ADUG Sovereign fund is worth 700 billion and Sheikh Mansour is Chairman, so far he has spent 200 million on transfer fees and 400 million on contracts, all of which is a gift and will not effect the balance sheet, he plans further spending thus –
3 top quality signings in January
The redevelopment of Sport City and Clayton Analine down the road (a massive site)
He will fund further in the summer
Why - because he loves football and the underdogs in any situation, and he wants to raise the profile of Abu Dhabi, note the final Grand Prix will be there, they are hoping for major soccer tournaments, they already host top quality golf and tennis events.
What he has spent so far is small change to him and there is more to come.
He has already stated this is a 10 year project and he will succeed, he always does. He is honourable and will not walk away from a project.
In 10 years time he may well move on but he will have made us self financing and we well be unrecognisable from the club we are today.
He will probably leave us with a couple of Billion it trust to see us over.
Khaldoon has told Sheikh Mansour how welcome we have made him and the banner was greatly received in Abu Dhabi.
We are extremely lucky.
Abramovich and Berlusconi were so worried of the might of Sheikh Mansour they ran for help to Platini.
I,ve got goose bumps after reading that, and a grin like a cheshire cat!!!kismet said:In the UAE the credit crunch is definitely effecting Dubai as they have invested in their infra – structure building property etc for when their oil runs out in 5 years they hope tourism will take over……………Abu Dhabi is virtually unaffected as they own 12% of the world oil and have supplies for the next 90 years.
The ADUG Sovereign fund is worth 700 billion and Sheikh Mansour is Chairman, so far he has spent 200 million on transfer fees and 400 million on contracts, all of which is a gift and will not effect the balance sheet, he plans further spending thus –
3 top quality signings in January
The redevelopment of Sport City and Clayton Analine down the road (a massive site)
He will fund further in the summer
Why - because he loves football and the underdogs in any situation, and he wants to raise the profile of Abu Dhabi, note the final Grand Prix will be there, they are hoping for major soccer tournaments, they already host top quality golf and tennis events.
What he has spent so far is small change to him and there is more to come.
He has already stated this is a 10 year project and he will succeed, he always does. He is honourable and will not walk away from a project.
In 10 years time he may well move on but he will have made us self financing and we well be unrecognisable from the club we are today.
He will probably leave us with a couple of Billion it trust to see us over.
Khaldoon has told Sheikh Mansour how welcome we have made him and the banner was greatly received in Abu Dhabi.
We are extremely lucky.
Abramovich and Berlusconi were so worried of the might of Sheikh Mansour they ran for help to Platini.
blueyorkie
Well-Known Member
kismet said:In the UAE the credit crunch is definitely effecting Dubai as they have invested in their infra – structure building property etc for when their oil runs out in 5 years they hope tourism will take over……………Abu Dhabi is virtually unaffected as they own 12% of the world oil and have supplies for the next 90 years.
The ADUG Sovereign fund is worth 700 billion and Sheikh Mansour is Chairman, so far he has spent 200 million on transfer fees and 400 million on contracts, all of which is a gift and will not effect the balance sheet, he plans further spending thus –
3 top quality signings in January
The redevelopment of Sport City and Clayton Analine down the road (a massive site)
He will fund further in the summer
Why - because he loves football and the underdogs in any situation, and he wants to raise the profile of Abu Dhabi, note the final Grand Prix will be there, they are hoping for major soccer tournaments, they already host top quality golf and tennis events.
What he has spent so far is small change to him and there is more to come.
He has already stated this is a 10 year project and he will succeed, he always does. He is honourable and will not walk away from a project.
In 10 years time he may well move on but he will have made us self financing and we well be unrecognisable from the club we are today.
He will probably leave us with a couple of Billion it trust to see us over. Khaldoon has told Sheikh Mansour how welcome we have made him and the banner was greatly received in Abu Dhabi.
We are extremely lucky.
Abramovich and Berlusconi were so worried of the might of Sheikh Mansour they ran for help to Platini.
I can see what you are saying but you may be dreaming if you think a businessman would leave a couple of billion in trust as a good will gesture if and when he leaves
Bluemoon115
Well-Known Member
blueyorkie said:kismet said:In the UAE the credit crunch is definitely effecting Dubai as they have invested in their infra – structure building property etc for when their oil runs out in 5 years they hope tourism will take over……………Abu Dhabi is virtually unaffected as they own 12% of the world oil and have supplies for the next 90 years.
The ADUG Sovereign fund is worth 700 billion and Sheikh Mansour is Chairman, so far he has spent 200 million on transfer fees and 400 million on contracts, all of which is a gift and will not effect the balance sheet, he plans further spending thus –
3 top quality signings in January
The redevelopment of Sport City and Clayton Analine down the road (a massive site)
He will fund further in the summer
Why - because he loves football and the underdogs in any situation, and he wants to raise the profile of Abu Dhabi, note the final Grand Prix will be there, they are hoping for major soccer tournaments, they already host top quality golf and tennis events.
What he has spent so far is small change to him and there is more to come.
He has already stated this is a 10 year project and he will succeed, he always does. He is honourable and will not walk away from a project.
In 10 years time he may well move on but he will have made us self financing and we well be unrecognisable from the club we are today.
He will probably leave us with a couple of Billion it trust to see us over. Khaldoon has told Sheikh Mansour how welcome we have made him and the banner was greatly received in Abu Dhabi.
We are extremely lucky.
Abramovich and Berlusconi were so worried of the might of Sheikh Mansour they ran for help to Platini.
I can see what you are saying but you may be dreaming if you think a businessman would leave a couple of billion in trust as a good will gesture if and when he leaves
Yeh but he is rich beyond any oter precedent, this is like me or you giving a barmaid a £5 tip at the end of the night when you decide to leave the pub.