City approach FA about B team

[gh_mcfc]

The only way to fix the problem is for the FA to get off their fat arses and spend money to improve grass roots. You've got kids getting changed in storage containers and using old equipment with barely any coaches because it's so ridiculously expensive to get badges. As usual, the FA want to try and fix the problem by doing as little as possible themselves.

I agree the FA should be funding all these things but thats not really the point. The "stars" of the future aren`t all getting changed in storage containers, they are at professional clubs either in the main academies or shadow groups from 5 and 6 year old. Unfortunately if you aren`t in the whole academy merry-go round by the time you are 10/11 there is a much much much smaller chance of ever being spotted. Thats because the clubs have been training the ones picked up with quality coaches since 5/6.

Were it really matters in between 5 and 8. Thats were the money needs to go thats where the FA needs to pick up and flood coaching of technique in schools and clubs and make it cheaper for coaches focusing on this age group. Teach kids the skill then and watch them go.

 

[MCFC-alan88]

The only way to fix the problem is for the FA to get off their fat arses and spend money to improve grass roots. You've got kids getting changed in storage containers and using old equipment with barely any coaches because it's so ridiculously expensive to get badges. As usual, the FA want to try and fix the problem by doing as little as possible themselves.

I agree the FA should be funding all these things but thats not really the point. The "stars" of the future aren`t all getting changed in storage containers, they are at professional clubs either in the main academies or shadow groups from 5 and 6 year old. Unfortunately if you aren`t in the whole academy merry-go round by the time you are 10/11 there is a much much much smaller chance of ever being spotted. Thats because the clubs have been training the ones picked up with quality coaches since 5/6.

Were it really matters in between 5 and 8. Thats were the money needs to go thats where the FA needs to pick up and flood coaching of technique in schools and clubs and make it cheaper for coaches focusing on this age group. Teach kids the skill then and watch them go.

That's what I was implying. Kids mature at different times, the stars will always be spotted in these setups, but if kids go through the cracks, they're pretty much gone completely in a footballing sense because there aren't enough coaches to go around, there are barely any as it is.

 

[Matty]

Just a quick update on this:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/10859378/Football-League-draws-up-plan-for-Premier-League-B-teams-to-enter-Johnstones-Paint-Trophy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... rophy.html</a>

Football League draws up plan for Premier League 'B' teams to enter Johnstone's Paint Trophy

Lower-league clubs believe they have come up with a sensible alternative to Greg Dyke's controversial League Three plan

Premier League B teams to be invited into Johnstone’s Paint Trophy as alternative to Greg Dyke’s League Three plan

The Football League is to present an alternative proposal to Greg Dyke’s controversial League Three plan that would incorporate Premier League B teams in an expanded Johnstone’s Paint Trophy to include a group stage.

Dyke, the Football Association chairman, attends the Football League’s summer meeting in Faro next week when he will discuss his own commission’s plan to create a League Three with Premier League B teams and Conference clubs.

Many Football League clubs reacted angrily, fearing damage to the pyramid structure. A campaign and petition have been launched to “Say No To League Three”.

The Football League, and its chief executive, Shaun Harvey, understand the FA’s desire to improve the pathway for English talent, and are generally supportive of the commission’s objective, but will not countenance any plan that harms the pyramid. They have sent their alternative plan to the 72 clubs to consider before next week’s meeting.

The idea is for 16 B teams from clubs with Category One academies to join the 48 League Two and League One clubs in the Johnstone’s Paint Trophy on a trial basis for the next two seasons. The competition would start with 16 groups of four with one B team in each group. Each team would play each other only once, so the draw would decide whether home or away. The 16 winners would qualify for a straight knockout.

The attraction for the elite clubs is that their youngsters would be guaranteed a minimum of three competitive games up to eight if they reached the Wembley final.

The League’s proposal includes the stipulation that B teams would have to play at their club’s home stadium with gate receipts going into a central pot to be divided by the 48 lower-league clubs.

“At their summer meeting, clubs will discuss the Football League’s contribution to the England team and how we can enhance our already extensive contribution to the development of young players,’’ Harvey said.

“While the session was planned well before the findings of the FA chairman’s England Commission were made public, it does now give clubs the opportunity to have their say on these matters.

“It remains our view that while the objectives of the commission are laudable, the burden it places on our clubs should not be disproportionate or unreasonable.

"With this in mind, clubs will consider the merits or otherwise of inviting a number of B teams to participate in the Johnstone’s Paint Trophy as a means for improving elite player development while also improving the finances of League One and League Two clubs.”

To allay concerns over the financial implications of a poorly-attended final, Harvey’s organisation will seek assurances from the FA that it would underwrite the final in tune with a 10-year average of gate receipts. A crowd of 35,663 watched Peterborough United beat Chesterfield to win the Trophy on March 30.

There is, of course, the possibility that a Premier League B team could attract a huge following to Wembley which would increase revenue to the lower leagues. Broadcasters would also relish the opportunity of showing aspiring Premier League stars from the start of the competition.

Given the disparity in income at the top of the game and lower down the pyramid, the Football League would ask the Premier League to increase grant funding to clubs’ youth-development programmes.

The Football League is adamant that the B teams going into the Johnstone’s Paint Trophy must be mainly stocked with young English players otherwise the remit of Dyke’s commission would not be being fulfilled.

The Premier League itself has a plan for an Under-23 League, being contested outside the pyramid, but which could now also be involved in the Johnstone’s Paint Trophy, giving emerging players more competitive experience.

The Football League’s plan seems a measured, intelligent response to Dyke’s B-team concept which has threatened to exacerbate the divide between FA, Football League and Premier League.

Pretty pointless, and doesn't achieve anything really. The difference in the number of games some B teams would play in this proposed solution compared with the "League Three" proposal is huge. If you go out in the group stage you get just 3 matches in a season, that's not worth bothering with at all. Even the 8 games you'd play if you made the final is hardly a large number.

Whilst I have my reservations about the whole B Team idea the Football League need to come up with something better than this, it's a waste of everyone's time.

 

[taconinja]

tell me the system with Lallana, Barkley, Shaw, Ward-Prowse, Sterling, Sturridge, Stones, Chambers, Hart, Clyne, Jones (yes the rags spoilt him), Oxlade-Chamberlain and in British terms Bale, Ramsey etc. isn't working, good british players with good coaching make it, improve the coaching, improve the players, then we don't need silly B teams.

I think you have some interesting talent which I've yet to see translate to international success.

it's more than we had the generation previous, so why not let this system of "if English players are good enough they'll come through" develop with continually improved coaching standards rather than wrecking our football pyramid for a gamble that has no real proof that it will pay off, and in fact may ruin things.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that adding three games (and if I'm reading this correctly paying all the gate money to all the other clubs) isn't worth the bother. If you want to leave the system as-is, I have no quarrel with that.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I think you have some interesting talent which I've yet to see translate to international success.

it's more than we had the generation previous, so why not let this system of "if English players are good enough they'll come through" develop with continually improved coaching standards rather than wrecking our football pyramid for a gamble that has no real proof that it will pay off, and in fact may ruin things.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that adding three games (and if I'm reading this correctly paying all the gate money to all the other clubs) isn't worth the bother. If you want to leave the system as-is, I have no quarrel with that.

yes, but if it stops Dyke et al. putting in a full B league, then it's better than that, and thus worth taking the hit on rather than ruining the football league, when the current system is working fine.

 

[taconinja]

it's more than we had the generation previous, so why not let this system of "if English players are good enough they'll come through" develop with continually improved coaching standards rather than wrecking our football pyramid for a gamble that has no real proof that it will pay off, and in fact may ruin things.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that adding three games (and if I'm reading this correctly paying all the gate money to all the other clubs) isn't worth the bother. If you want to leave the system as-is, I have no quarrel with that.

yes, but if it stops Dyke et al. putting in a full B league, then it's better than that, and thus worth taking the hit on rather than ruining the football league, when the current system is working fine.

I have less than zero desire for City to take a hit for the English game. We're already taking a hit so the powers of UEFA can feel more secure.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that adding three games (and if I'm reading this correctly paying all the gate money to all the other clubs) isn't worth the bother. If you want to leave the system as-is, I have no quarrel with that.

yes, but if it stops Dyke et al. putting in a full B league, then it's better than that, and thus worth taking the hit on rather than ruining the football league, when the current system is working fine.

I have less than zero desire for City to take a hit for the English game. We're already taking a hit so the powers of UEFA can feel more secure.

we're not taking a hit though, the current system is producing some very promising talent across Premier League clubs, and none of them had to play in the 5th/4th/3rd tier in a B team to make the progression, they earnt through impressing either at FL clubs or in their own setups in training and the reserves leagues.

It's all about coaching.

 

[taconinja]

yes, but if it stops Dyke et al. putting in a full B league, then it's better than that, and thus worth taking the hit on rather than ruining the football league, when the current system is working fine.

I have less than zero desire for City to take a hit for the English game. We're already taking a hit so the powers of UEFA can feel more secure.

we're not taking a hit though, the current system is producing some very promising talent across Premier League clubs, and none of them had to play in the 5th/4th/3rd tier in a B team to make the progression, they earnt through impressing either at FL clubs or in their own setups in training and the reserves leagues.

It's all about coaching.

If we're participating in a competition just to give other clubs a handout, then it's taking a hit. A small hit perhaps, but a hit nonetheless.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

Just a quick update on this:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/10859378/Football-League-draws-up-plan-for-Premier-League-B-teams-to-enter-Johnstones-Paint-Trophy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... rophy.html</a>

Football League draws up plan for Premier League 'B' teams to enter Johnstone's Paint Trophy

Lower-league clubs believe they have come up with a sensible alternative to Greg Dyke's controversial League Three plan

Premier League B teams to be invited into Johnstone’s Paint Trophy as alternative to Greg Dyke’s League Three plan

The Football League is to present an alternative proposal to Greg Dyke’s controversial League Three plan that would incorporate Premier League B teams in an expanded Johnstone’s Paint Trophy to include a group stage.

Dyke, the Football Association chairman, attends the Football League’s summer meeting in Faro next week when he will discuss his own commission’s plan to create a League Three with Premier League B teams and Conference clubs.

Many Football League clubs reacted angrily, fearing damage to the pyramid structure. A campaign and petition have been launched to “Say No To League Three”.

The Football League, and its chief executive, Shaun Harvey, understand the FA’s desire to improve the pathway for English talent, and are generally supportive of the commission’s objective, but will not countenance any plan that harms the pyramid. They have sent their alternative plan to the 72 clubs to consider before next week’s meeting.

The idea is for 16 B teams from clubs with Category One academies to join the 48 League Two and League One clubs in the Johnstone’s Paint Trophy on a trial basis for the next two seasons. The competition would start with 16 groups of four with one B team in each group. Each team would play each other only once, so the draw would decide whether home or away. The 16 winners would qualify for a straight knockout.

The attraction for the elite clubs is that their youngsters would be guaranteed a minimum of three competitive games up to eight if they reached the Wembley final.

The League’s proposal includes the stipulation that B teams would have to play at their club’s home stadium with gate receipts going into a central pot to be divided by the 48 lower-league clubs.

“At their summer meeting, clubs will discuss the Football League’s contribution to the England team and how we can enhance our already extensive contribution to the development of young players,’’ Harvey said.

“While the session was planned well before the findings of the FA chairman’s England Commission were made public, it does now give clubs the opportunity to have their say on these matters.

“It remains our view that while the objectives of the commission are laudable, the burden it places on our clubs should not be disproportionate or unreasonable.

"With this in mind, clubs will consider the merits or otherwise of inviting a number of B teams to participate in the Johnstone’s Paint Trophy as a means for improving elite player development while also improving the finances of League One and League Two clubs.”

To allay concerns over the financial implications of a poorly-attended final, Harvey’s organisation will seek assurances from the FA that it would underwrite the final in tune with a 10-year average of gate receipts. A crowd of 35,663 watched Peterborough United beat Chesterfield to win the Trophy on March 30.

There is, of course, the possibility that a Premier League B team could attract a huge following to Wembley which would increase revenue to the lower leagues. Broadcasters would also relish the opportunity of showing aspiring Premier League stars from the start of the competition.

Given the disparity in income at the top of the game and lower down the pyramid, the Football League would ask the Premier League to increase grant funding to clubs’ youth-development programmes.

The Football League is adamant that the B teams going into the Johnstone’s Paint Trophy must be mainly stocked with young English players otherwise the remit of Dyke’s commission would not be being fulfilled.

The Premier League itself has a plan for an Under-23 League, being contested outside the pyramid, but which could now also be involved in the Johnstone’s Paint Trophy, giving emerging players more competitive experience.

The Football League’s plan seems a measured, intelligent response to Dyke’s B-team concept which has threatened to exacerbate the divide between FA, Football League and Premier League.

Pretty pointless, and doesn't achieve anything really. The difference in the number of games some B teams would play in this proposed solution compared with the "League Three" proposal is huge. If you go out in the group stage you get just 3 matches in a season, that's not worth bothering with at all. Even the 8 games you'd play if you made the final is hardly a large number.

Whilst I have my reservations about the whole B Team idea the Football League need to come up with something better than this, it's a waste of everyone's time.

Really we shouldn't be doing anything. Let the FA and the PL muster something up which doesn't affect the Football League.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I have less than zero desire for City to take a hit for the English game. We're already taking a hit so the powers of UEFA can feel more secure.

we're not taking a hit though, the current system is producing some very promising talent across Premier League clubs, and none of them had to play in the 5th/4th/3rd tier in a B team to make the progression, they earnt through impressing either at FL clubs or in their own setups in training and the reserves leagues.

It's all about coaching.

If we're participating in a competition just to give other clubs a handout, then it's taking a hit. A small hit perhaps, but a hit nonetheless.

I can't imagine the current home games the U21 play at the Etihad make a profit.