City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

[fbloke]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

5) They constantly refer to City as a small club.
If we're honest with ourselves, we're not at the level of Liverpool or United, and probably not Chelsea in recent years, but we are on the up.
We are a large domestic club who are now gaining huge exposure all over the world. We are growing rapidly.
It's just a complete myth to believe we are a 'small' club though.

The Chelsea line proves that City are not a small club in many ways. Let's not forget where Chelsea were before Harding's investment (and then Abramovich) in the 80s/early 90s. In terms of success, support, stadium etc. Chelsea were much further behind than City were at that time and look how far they've come. Better still compare the investment City have experienced in every area and it's clear that within a few years - and it won't be long - City will be proven to be the model that other clubs aspire to. The stuff about FFP and City 'buying' success will be forgotten - or only churned out by those who have actually lost their place at the top table.

Don't be surprised to find UEFA supporting City in future years - it's a funny old game and taking the hit this year will probably turn out to be one of the wisest (even if it was unjust) moves the club has made. Football politics will begin to move City's way.

Yes, I agree entirely. Our starting position was essentially better than Chelsea's albeit we'd had a more turbulent recent history.
Admittedly, London has a certain 'pull' that Manchester doesn't but it never stopped United and Liverpool overcoming it, and it won't stop us.

And the part about buying success being forgotten - spot on. This was partly what I was trying to allude to early. When we go back in time almost all clubs received some level of investment (money they didn't actually 'earn'). But over half a century on, it's overlooked or discounted as mere 'pennies' compared with our investment.
But a few hundred thousand pounds 50 years ago can turn into hundreds of millions today. In the same way, our billions today might turn into hundreds of billions in 30 years time.

As for UEFA, if there's one thing they love, it's money. And providing we are a key component of their increased revenues, they'll want 'in'. There's little honour amongst thieves, and whichever former 'elite' clubs fail to contribute to the pot accordingly will be cast aside.

But that then raises (for some) a moral dilemma. We will soon be one of the 'elite' - will we join their ranks in keeping it a pretty closed shop, or will we fight the system from within and try and make it much more open? - I suspect the former, which is a shame.

Chelsea, after a decade more of investment still only have the same number of title successes as City now have.

How long until City win our second European trophy? Not that long I would suggest.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

5) They constantly refer to City as a small club.
If we're honest with ourselves, we're not at the level of Liverpool or United, and probably not Chelsea in recent years, but we are on the up.
We are a large domestic club who are now gaining huge exposure all over the world. We are growing rapidly.
It's just a complete myth to believe we are a 'small' club though.

The Chelsea line proves that City are not a small club in many ways. Let's not forget where Chelsea were before Harding's investment (and then Abramovich) in the 80s/early 90s. In terms of success, support, stadium etc. Chelsea were much further behind than City were at that time and look how far they've come. Better still compare the investment City have experienced in every area and it's clear that within a few years - and it won't be long - City will be proven to be the model that other clubs aspire to. The stuff about FFP and City 'buying' success will be forgotten - or only churned out by those who have actually lost their place at the top table.

Don't be surprised to find UEFA supporting City in future years - it's a funny old game and taking the hit this year will probably turn out to be one of the wisest (even if it was unjust) moves the club has made. Football politics will begin to move City's way.

I think what UEFA, the media, football fans and most City fans have to grasp and then to understand is that football has always been and will always be a business, but that City are taking it into new areas of the business world and business practice. City were a local and parochial club under Peter Swales in particular, relying on gate receipts (and borrowing!) for income. In the 90s United and other clubs began to exploit other revenues, including "support" on other continents. City, though, are steaming ahead, to becoming the world's first multinational club/group, but by presenting a "local" face on each continent. The rest of football don't seem even to realise what we're doing let alone it's implications. FFPR is already an irrelevance to City and while the rest of the football world drools over balance sheets City will establish a dominant position in the game.

 

[inbetween]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

5) They constantly refer to City as a small club.
If we're honest with ourselves, we're not at the level of Liverpool or United, and probably not Chelsea in recent years, but we are on the up.
We are a large domestic club who are now gaining huge exposure all over the world. We are growing rapidly.
It's just a complete myth to believe we are a 'small' club though.

The Chelsea line proves that City are not a small club in many ways. Let's not forget where Chelsea were before Harding's investment (and then Abramovich) in the 80s/early 90s. In terms of success, support, stadium etc. Chelsea were much further behind than City were at that time and look how far they've come. Better still compare the investment City have experienced in every area and it's clear that within a few years - and it won't be long - City will be proven to be the model that other clubs aspire to. The stuff about FFP and City 'buying' success will be forgotten - or only churned out by those who have actually lost their place at the top table.

Don't be surprised to find UEFA supporting City in future years - it's a funny old game and taking the hit this year will probably turn out to be one of the wisest (even if it was unjust) moves the club has made. Football politics will begin to move City's way.

Everything will pale into irrelevance after this year. We are projected to completely fulfill FFP requirements within the next year so UEFA cannot do a single thing. Once we then launch into profit they can do absolutely nothing to control our spending, wage bills or similar without sanctioning every single team in Europe the same. We have done what we can to make these rules and like Khaldoon said, sometimes you just take a pinch for the team and move on to grow into something massive. To the guys in charge that is really all FFP is and the worst UEFA can do to us - a pinch.

As for other clubs who aren't so lucky like Liverpool, they cannot spend because they must also comply and that is going to be difficult when your income stream is half of ours. This is obvious when they are currently in the process of signing a slightly above average 32yr old striker. United will be the same but the only thing going for them is there will no doubt be a set of stupid clubs who will probably pay more than £5M for the shite players they are trying to get rid of.

Many have complained that FFP does have the effect of protecting the elite, what they fail to realize though is that luckily we are part of that elite now.

 

[Marvin]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

5) They constantly refer to City as a small club.
If we're honest with ourselves, we're not at the level of Liverpool or United, and probably not Chelsea in recent years, but we are on the up.
We are a large domestic club who are now gaining huge exposure all over the world. We are growing rapidly.
It's just a complete myth to believe we are a 'small' club though.

The Chelsea line proves that City are not a small club in many ways. Let's not forget where Chelsea were before Harding's investment (and then Abramovich) in the 80s/early 90s. In terms of success, support, stadium etc. Chelsea were much further behind than City were at that time and look how far they've come. Better still compare the investment City have experienced in every area and it's clear that within a few years - and it won't be long - City will be proven to be the model that other clubs aspire to. The stuff about FFP and City 'buying' success will be forgotten - or only churned out by those who have actually lost their place at the top table.

Don't be surprised to find UEFA supporting City in future years - it's a funny old game and taking the hit this year will probably turn out to be one of the wisest (even if it was unjust) moves the club has made. Football politics will begin to move City's way.

I think what UEFA, the media, football fans and most City fans have to grasp and then to understand is that football has always been and will always be a business, but that City are taking it into new areas of the business world and business practice. City were a local and parochial club under Peter Swales in particular, relying on gate receipts (and borrowing!) for income. In the 90s United and other clubs began to exploit other revenues, including "support" on other continents. City, though, are steaming ahead, to becoming the world's first multinational club/group, but by presenting a "local" face on each continent. The rest of football don't seem even to realise what we're doing let alone it's implications. FFPR is already an irrelevance to City and while the rest of the football world drools over balance sheets City will establish a dominant position in the game.

Assumes City's international plans will work.

 

[fbloke]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

The Chelsea line proves that City are not a small club in many ways. Let's not forget where Chelsea were before Harding's investment (and then Abramovich) in the 80s/early 90s. In terms of success, support, stadium etc. Chelsea were much further behind than City were at that time and look how far they've come. Better still compare the investment City have experienced in every area and it's clear that within a few years - and it won't be long - City will be proven to be the model that other clubs aspire to. The stuff about FFP and City 'buying' success will be forgotten - or only churned out by those who have actually lost their place at the top table.

Don't be surprised to find UEFA supporting City in future years - it's a funny old game and taking the hit this year will probably turn out to be one of the wisest (even if it was unjust) moves the club has made. Football politics will begin to move City's way.

I think what UEFA, the media, football fans and most City fans have to grasp and then to understand is that football has always been and will always be a business, but that City are taking it into new areas of the business world and business practice. City were a local and parochial club under Peter Swales in particular, relying on gate receipts (and borrowing!) for income. In the 90s United and other clubs began to exploit other revenues, including "support" on other continents. City, though, are steaming ahead, to becoming the world's first multinational club/group, but by presenting a "local" face on each continent. The rest of football don't seem even to realise what we're doing let alone it's implications. FFPR is already an irrelevance to City and while the rest of the football world drools over balance sheets City will establish a dominant position in the game.

Assumes City's international plans will work.

I dont mean to be rude, but if you had the slightest clue as to the scope of what is planned you would not have written that.

If you doubt the certainty of the plans I would say sit back and enjoy it. ;-)

 

[SilverFox2]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Extract from FanchesterCity post:

.............. But that then raises (for some) a moral dilemma. We will soon be one of the 'elite' - will we join their ranks in keeping it a pretty closed shop, or will we fight the system from within and try and make it much more open? - I suspect the former, which is a shame.

Frankly I don't think Sheik M. is too bothered about the other Clubs, his priority seems to be seen as somebody who acts in a responsible way wherever he chooses to spend his cash pile.
He has been successful in apparently distancing himself from operational detail but if there is a hint of any impropriety things seem to happen quickly.

As I see it the young Sheik's 'Day Job' for want of a better phrase is to INVEST (ie not donate) part of the oil revenues that his father controls. I suspect City are part of that Investment Portfolio rather than an expensive hobby he can afford.

Seems to me that instead of keeping their oil dollar earnings in a biscuit tin under the bed solely to fund the financial difficulties of others (eg Barclays) they are doing the same as the the Saudis who used there many connections at high level in the America to good effect to make massive inroads into the Properties and Manufacturing Companies in the USA.
Certainly global investment in Football Clubs will raise their profile around the world and seems to be part of this Investment Portfolio.

In the grand scheme of things their ability to invest in City and get results quickly despite a concerted effort to stop their progress will be noticed by many at the same time as giving great advertising to all associated with our Club.

The development of an area of Manchester that both Government and Developers had abandoned is a remarkable
achievement that is bound to have an impact on land prices in the area.
He got his land cheap and Construction costs were low because of the economic downturn, not bad timing.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

The Chelsea line proves that City are not a small club in many ways. Let's not forget where Chelsea were before Harding's investment (and then Abramovich) in the 80s/early 90s. In terms of success, support, stadium etc. Chelsea were much further behind than City were at that time and look how far they've come. Better still compare the investment City have experienced in every area and it's clear that within a few years - and it won't be long - City will be proven to be the model that other clubs aspire to. The stuff about FFP and City 'buying' success will be forgotten - or only churned out by those who have actually lost their place at the top table.

Don't be surprised to find UEFA supporting City in future years - it's a funny old game and taking the hit this year will probably turn out to be one of the wisest (even if it was unjust) moves the club has made. Football politics will begin to move City's way.

I think what UEFA, the media, football fans and most City fans have to grasp and then to understand is that football has always been and will always be a business, but that City are taking it into new areas of the business world and business practice. City were a local and parochial club under Peter Swales in particular, relying on gate receipts (and borrowing!) for income. In the 90s United and other clubs began to exploit other revenues, including "support" on other continents. City, though, are steaming ahead, to becoming the world's first multinational club/group, but by presenting a "local" face on each continent. The rest of football don't seem even to realise what we're doing let alone it's implications. FFPR is already an irrelevance to City and while the rest of the football world drools over balance sheets City will establish a dominant position in the game.

Assumes City's international plans will work.

Cheer up, Marvin - it's the Sheikh and Khaldoon we're talking about!

 

[Centurions]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Extract from FanchesterCity post:

.............. But that then raises (for some) a moral dilemma. We will soon be one of the 'elite' - will we join their ranks in keeping it a pretty closed shop, or will we fight the system from within and try and make it much more open? - I suspect the former, which is a shame.

Frankly I don't think Sheik M. is too bothered about the other Clubs, his priority seems to be seen as somebody who acts in a responsible way wherever he chooses to spend his cash pile.
He has been successful in apparently distancing himself from operational detail but if there is a hint of any impropriety things seem to happen quickly.

As I see it the young Sheik's 'Day Job' for want of a better phrase is to INVEST (ie not donate) part of the oil revenues that his father controls. I suspect City are part of that Investment Portfolio rather than an expensive hobby he can afford.

Seems to me that instead of keeping their oil dollar earnings in a biscuit tin under the bed solely to fund the financial difficulties of others (eg Barclays) they are doing the same as the the Saudis who used there many connections at high level in the America to good effect to make massive inroads into the Properties and Manufacturing Companies in the USA.
Certainly global investment in Football Clubs will raise their profile around the world and seems to be part of this Investment Portfolio.

In the grand scheme of things their ability to invest in City and get results quickly despite a concerted effort to stop their progress will be noticed by many at the same time as giving great advertising to all associated with our Club.

The development of an area of Manchester that both Government and Developers had abandoned is a remarkable
achievement that is bound to have an impact on land prices in the area.
He got his land cheap and Construction costs were low because of the economic downturn, not bad timing.

Good post.

Extract from FanchesterCity post:

.............. But that then raises (for some) a moral dilemma. We will soon be one of the 'elite' - will we join their ranks in keeping it a pretty closed shop, or will we fight the system from within and try and make it much more open? - I suspect the former, which is a shame.

It won't be the former at all since we're against FFPR in it's present form. However that said we won't necessarily fight it either since unless they try to rewrite the rules significantly it is now immaterial to ourselves.

 

[FanchesterCity]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Extract from FanchesterCity post:

.............. But that then raises (for some) a moral dilemma. We will soon be one of the 'elite' - will we join their ranks in keeping it a pretty closed shop, or will we fight the system from within and try and make it much more open? - I suspect the former, which is a shame.

Frankly I don't think Sheik M. is too bothered about the other Clubs, his priority seems to be seen as somebody who acts in a responsible way wherever he chooses to spend his cash pile.
He has been successful in apparently distancing himself from operational detail but if there is a hint of any impropriety things seem to happen quickly.

As I see it the young Sheik's 'Day Job' for want of a better phrase is to INVEST (ie not donate) part of the oil revenues that his father controls. I suspect City are part of that Investment Portfolio rather than an expensive hobby he can afford.

Seems to me that instead of keeping their oil dollar earnings in a biscuit tin under the bed solely to fund the financial difficulties of others (eg Barclays) they are doing the same as the the Saudis who used there many connections at high level in the America to good effect to make massive inroads into the Properties and Manufacturing Companies in the USA.
Certainly global investment in Football Clubs will raise their profile around the world and seems to be part of this Investment Portfolio.

In the grand scheme of things their ability to invest in City and get results quickly despite a concerted effort to stop their progress will be noticed by many at the same time as giving great advertising to all associated with our Club.

The development of an area of Manchester that both Government and Developers had abandoned is a remarkable
achievement that is bound to have an impact on land prices in the area.
He got his land cheap and Construction costs were low because of the economic downturn, not bad timing.

Good post.

Extract from FanchesterCity post:

.............. But that then raises (for some) a moral dilemma. We will soon be one of the 'elite' - will we join their ranks in keeping it a pretty closed shop, or will we fight the system from within and try and make it much more open? - I suspect the former, which is a shame.

It won't be the former at all since we're against FFPR in it's present form. However that said we won't necessarily fight it either since unless they try to rewrite the rules significantly it is now immaterial to ourselves.

We're against them at the moment because they're not working in our favour.
Once we're the right side of them, and they are adjusted to suit us best - then yes, I suspect we WILL behave in precisely the same way as the clubs we currently criticise. i.e. We will become one of them!

As a Blue, of course, we look after ourselves, but as a wider football fan, it's a little rich to moan about the protectionism, then join in with it later. But it remains to be seen what happens.

Whilst I think everybody accepts we're not 'just a business' - our hearts are still in love with the club not the business. I'd like to think (hope) that we won't every become another Manchester United PLC, but in reality, I suspect that's exactly what we'll become.

 

[George Hannah]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

but as a wider football fan, it's a little rich to moan about the protectionism, then join in with it later. But it remains to be seen what happens. ...

...a little rich? We are a lot rich and we'll do what we like to make City the best.