City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

[jonmcity]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I know SAP quite well (until recently I used to work for them) and systems integration work is not their bag at all, so given the earlier description it didn't sound like them. They are also doing shockingly badly in the UK at the moment and I would question whether they have the required cash to splash around. That said their HANA platform is where all their focus is and where their money is being spent, and it does fit well with the real-time BI type of thing that's relevant to sport, so I don't rule it out.

We gave up and moved on after spending 6.5m


Footballers trying to learn SAPwanees lol. Oracle not much better also. They sell these systems as integrated when in fact they are lots of modules bought from acquisitions that don't work together without major integration headache.

True of Oracle mate (I worked there for 10 years too!) But less so of SAP. Business Suite is a pretty well integrated system. The trouble is it's so big and complex - that's why it costs millions to implement.

We gave up after spending 6.5M

 

[Chippy_boy]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

We gave up and moved on after spending 6.5m


Footballers trying to learn SAPwanees lol. Oracle not much better also. They sell these systems as integrated when in fact they are lots of modules bought from acquisitions that don't work together without major integration headache.

True of Oracle mate (I worked there for 10 years too!) But less so of SAP. Business Suite is a pretty well integrated system. The trouble is it's so big and complex - that's why it costs millions to implement.

We gave up after spending 6.5M

Peanuts ;-) I've seen anything up to £1bn spent on SAP projects (big ones admittedly)!

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

We gave up and moved on after spending 6.5m


Footballers trying to learn SAPwanees lol. Oracle not much better also. They sell these systems as integrated when in fact they are lots of modules bought from acquisitions that don't work together without major integration headache.

True of Oracle mate (I worked there for 10 years too!) But less so of SAP. Business Suite is a pretty well integrated system. The trouble is it's so big and complex - that's why it costs millions to implement.

We gave up after spending 6.5M

In SAP/Oracle terms, that's the equivalent of taking the plastic wrapper off the box.

 

[jonmcity]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

True of Oracle mate (I worked there for 10 years too!) But less so of SAP. Business Suite is a pretty well integrated system. The trouble is it's so big and complex - that's why it costs millions to implement.

We gave up after spending 6.5M

In SAP/Oracle terms, that's the equivalent of taking the plastic wrapper off the box.

As we found out-our abbreviation for SAP was Send Another Payment.

 

[OB1]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

True of Oracle mate (I worked there for 10 years too!) But less so of SAP. Business Suite is a pretty well integrated system. The trouble is it's so big and complex - that's why it costs millions to implement.

We gave up after spending 6.5M

In SAP/Oracle terms, that's the equivalent of taking the plastic wrapper off the box.

Do they still come in a box?

;-)

 

[cibaman]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

It's funny Platini already sees FFP as a success. I wonder if that's because privately he was under enormous pressure to sanction City and PSG, and that this summer's fines, transfer spend limits, squad limitations, etc have put him a position with strength with regards the rest of the cartel and what happens next.

What I mean by that is, is it inconceivable that he's now saying to the likes of Bayern that the "sugar daddies" now know they can't just spend without limits on players, and that dialling back the regulations having made the point to City and Paris is the right and proper thing to do. After all there are many practical realities to FFP which are a farce (leveraged buy outs, debt burdens etc). Clubs like United, Madrid, even Barcelona, who carry heavy debt burdens, are subject to illegal state aid, etc are the next logically on UEFA's list of "bad" clubs to go after.

Anyway what I'm saying in a convoluted way is that I'm not surprised that there will be a dialling back of FFP and i'm not surprised if they find ways to allow for people like Mansour to come in and invest over a longer period of time to challenge the elite.

Most importantly though for City, FFP has now become an irrelevance. I can see us being in a position where needing to spend even 200 million next summer won't be a problem.

Exactly how I see it. The only way it has been "a success" is what you refer to: he can turn round to Gill et al and say "there, we did it".

There simply has to be a complete rework of FFP and I see this as the start of it. Who even knows what pressure has been brought behind the scenes by City and PSG? One thing's for sure: there were some heavyweight discussions taking place in the summer when the announcements were delayed. I think the legal implications of this, when faced with pockets as deep as The Sheikh's, could bring UEFA down completely. Imagine if City or PSG pursued for damages? What kind of sums we could be talking there?!?!

I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of some kind of off-the-record deal done in the summer. We took the little hit (£20m was it, and a 21 man Euro Squad) so UEFA could look like they've won, with a promise that that's the end of it and FFP is rewritten completely this season under the pretence of UEFA being the drivers, rather than them running scared.

Like you, I think the way is going to be cleared for us now.

Looks to me like we've played the long game and scored an important victory.
Chalk another one up to Khaldoon and Ferran.

Platini's idea of success is measured against the benchmark that Sulaiman Al-Fahim set. The fantasy football teams that he predicted which scared the shit out of UEFA. The Kaka bid. If you look at our actual recruitment over the last 2 or 3 years compared with the expectations immediately after the takeover, FFP would appear to have had a significant impact. In that sense its been a "success".

 

[Neville Kneville]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Exactly how I see it. The only way it has been "a success" is what you refer to: he can turn round to Gill et al and say "there, we did it".

There simply has to be a complete rework of FFP and I see this as the start of it. Who even knows what pressure has been brought behind the scenes by City and PSG? One thing's for sure: there were some heavyweight discussions taking place in the summer when the announcements were delayed. I think the legal implications of this, when faced with pockets as deep as The Sheikh's, could bring UEFA down completely. Imagine if City or PSG pursued for damages? What kind of sums we could be talking there?!?!

I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of some kind of off-the-record deal done in the summer. We took the little hit (£20m was it, and a 21 man Euro Squad) so UEFA could look like they've won, with a promise that that's the end of it and FFP is rewritten completely this season under the pretence of UEFA being the drivers, rather than them running scared.

Like you, I think the way is going to be cleared for us now.

Looks to me like we've played the long game and scored an important victory.
Chalk another one up to Khaldoon and Ferran.

Platini's idea of success is measured against the benchmark that Sulaiman Al-Fahim set. The fantasy football teams that he predicted which scared the shit out of UEFA. The Kaka bid. If you look at our actual recruitment over the last 2 or 3 years compared with the expectations immediately after the takeover, FFP would appear to have had a significant impact. In that sense its been a "success".

Yep, it's allowed Real Madrid, Barca, Utd & Arsenal to pay stupidly over the odds for players & push up wages whilst penalising us for paying a reasonable price for players & reducing wages, so it's done exactly what it was supposed to.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Looks to me like we've played the long game and scored an important victory.
Chalk another one up to Khaldoon and Ferran.

Platini's idea of success is measured against the benchmark that Sulaiman Al-Fahim set. The fantasy football teams that he predicted which scared the shit out of UEFA. The Kaka bid. If you look at our actual recruitment over the last 2 or 3 years compared with the expectations immediately after the takeover, FFP would appear to have had a significant impact. In that sense its been a "success".

Yep, it's allowed Real Madrid, Barca, Utd & Arsenal to pay stupidly over the odds for players & push up wages whilst penalising us for paying a reasonable price for players & reducing wages, so it's done exactly what it was supposed to.

When you look at it like that (and is there any other way?) you'd have to say Platini has played a blinder. No wonder we are all so fucked off about it.

 

[Roy Munson]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Playing catch up on this thread so apologies if already mentioned but SAP seem to be making a big play for the football market at the moment.
There was an article in Tuesday's Times describing how they are linking up with Europe's top clubs (we were namechecked) to develop services that will assist in scientific analysis of performance.
Football at the top end is now so awash with money that sponsors are as interested in B2B sales as to the individual consumer.

The work that SAP seem to be doing on big data and analytics in the field of football would surely tie in well with what may be the sport's finest training complex.

SAP is not a consumer brand but wider brand recognition never does any harm, IMO. Ultimately, it's always people that you employ and people that buy your product, even if they are buying it for a business purpose.

Of course, it could, as TH suggested, be Siemens that was being referred to.

I know SAP quite well (until recently I used to work for them) and systems integration work is not their bag at all, so given the earlier description it didn't sound like them. They are also doing shockingly badly in the UK at the moment and I would question whether they have the required cash to splash around. That said their HANA platform is where all their focus is and where their money is being spent, and it does fit well with the real-time BI type of thing that's relevant to sport, so I don't rule it out.

EDIT: Sorry, missed Roy's comments above...

What I meant, Roy, was that they aren't an SI and what you hinted at before sounded more like systems integration work. I guess you know more than me though and since you are questioning my comments, presumably we can conclude it *is* SAP then?

Afternoon Chippy. SAP are definitely going to be doing the system integration. Staff at the club have already had briefings about the scheduling. I'll try and get some clarity later this week but from how it was described to me, the system intergration stuff is only a part of the overall deal, suggesting they'll be providing analytical services as well.

 

[OB1]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

The work that SAP seem to be doing on big data and analytics in the field of football would surely tie in well with what may be the sport's finest training complex.

SAP is not a consumer brand but wider brand recognition never does any harm, IMO. Ultimately, it's always people that you employ and people that buy your product, even if they are buying it for a business purpose.

Of course, it could, as TH suggested, be Siemens that was being referred to.

I know SAP quite well (until recently I used to work for them) and systems integration work is not their bag at all, so given the earlier description it didn't sound like them. They are also doing shockingly badly in the UK at the moment and I would question whether they have the required cash to splash around. That said their HANA platform is where all their focus is and where their money is being spent, and it does fit well with the real-time BI type of thing that's relevant to sport, so I don't rule it out.

EDIT: Sorry, missed Roy's comments above...

What I meant, Roy, was that they aren't an SI and what you hinted at before sounded more like systems integration work. I guess you know more than me though and since you are questioning my comments, presumably we can conclude it *is* SAP then?

Afternoon Chippy. SAP are definitely going to be doing the system integration. Staff at the club have already had briefings about the scheduling. I'll try and get some clarity later this week but from how it was described to me, the system intergration stuff is only a part of the overall deal, suggesting they'll be providing analytical services as well.

Don't know anything about the inner workings of SAP but - based on Chippy's comments - maybe they are subcontracting some of the work whilst being the prime contractor and supplier of certain software?