City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

[jrb]

Thank you.

Pictures will be uploaded. later ;-)

(leave FFPR to the clever posters, jrb)

To be fair, we all have our place and no one does pictures of piles of earth and JCB's quite like you.

I'll remember that when I start climbing the step ladder when I go next, PB.

That's all the incentive I'll need. :-?

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

I think I've got a decent understanding of the hypocritical sack of shit that is the uefa ffp, but how does the PL version differ, and is it even more restrictive?

I've no idea, but I would figure it's a killer for any team that get's promoted from the Championship. To survive, a promoted club has to spend heavily but in doing so, losses are inevitable and these clubs are the one's most likely to suffer should FFP come in.

 

[M18CTID]

I think I've got a decent understanding of the hypocritical sack of shit that is the uefa ffp, but how does the PL version differ, and is it even more restrictive?

I've no idea, but I would figure it's a killer for any team that get's promoted from the Championship. To survive, a promoted club has to spend heavily but in doing so, losses are inevitable and these clubs are the one's most likely to suffer should FFP come in.

PL FFP regs have allowable losses of £105 million over 3 seasons I think so way more lenient than UEFA's regs. The FFP rules in the Championship are a lot stricter than the PL version too.

 

[moomba]

Big thing in the premier league version of FFP is the increase in the wage bill. Limited to £4m a year plus increases in commercial income or something like that.

 

[Hung]

Here's one for you all.

Probably way off the mark, but here goes.

Did Sheikh Mansour miss a trick?(with FFPR)

Instead of paying for the club, clearing the debts, buying the players, paying their wages, and everything associated with spending £1bill(the perceived figure), from his own wealth, shouldn't he have taken out a loan at a very favourable rate, ;-) over x amount of years, and placed that loan/debt onto the club, just like the Glazers did when they bought United?

In doing so, wouldn't City have passed FFPR, as debts don't seem count against FFPR.(United, Madrid, Barcelona, etc)

Or is that wrong?

Stick to taking pictures of the campus mate! You're quite good at that. ;-)

For one thing, we'd still have the same costs but loans don't count as revenue.

Second, Sheikh Mansour, as the sole owner of the shares, has to put any money to cover losses in as equity (i. e. buy shares) rather than loans.

Given that we currently have no debt and the likes of United have huge amounts, could ADUG leverage some debt in from the a ‘friendly’ such as The National Bank of Abu Dhabi of say, £300m, use this as a fund for future transfers/wages and have the debt guaranteed by Sheikh Mansour? It appears that debt is fine in FFP rules as long as you can service the interest payments, so it seems sensible to use the our current ‘zero debt’ position to sidestep the FFP restrictions. The servicing costs will of course depend upon the deal with the bank, but assuming that debt can be secured at say a one point over base, the annual servicing cost would be £4.5m. It seems counter intuitive, but the whole FFP scam lacks common sense, so maybe a solution that on the face of it looks ridiculous (i.e., bringing in debt when you don’t actually need it), is in fact the answer.

 

[Balti]

I think I've got a decent understanding of the hypocritical sack of shit that is the uefa ffp, but how does the PL version differ, and is it even more restrictive?

the envelopes containing the bungs have a different logo on them

 

[fbloke]

Here's one for you all.

Probably way off the mark, but here goes.

Did Sheikh Mansour miss a trick?(with FFPR)

Instead of paying for the club, clearing the debts, buying the players, paying their wages, and everything associated with spending £1bill(the perceived figure), from his own wealth, shouldn't he have taken out a loan at a very favourable rate, ;-) over x amount of years, and placed that loan/debt onto the club, just like the Glazers did when they bought United?

In doing so, wouldn't City have passed FFPR, as debts don't seem count against FFPR.(United, Madrid, Barcelona, etc)

Or is that wrong?

Stick to taking pictures of the campus mate! You're quite good at that. ;-)

For one thing, we'd still have the same costs but loans don't count as revenue.

Second, Sheikh Mansour, as the sole owner of the shares, has to put any money to cover losses in as equity (i. e. buy shares) rather than loans.

Given that we currently have no debt and the likes of United have huge amounts, could ADUG leverage some debt in from the a ‘friendly’ such as The National Bank of Abu Dhabi of say, £300m, use this as a fund for future transfers/wages and have the debt guaranteed by Sheikh Mansour? It appears that debt is fine in FFP rules as long as you can service the interest payments, so it seems sensible to use the our current ‘zero debt’ position to sidestep the FFP restrictions. The servicing costs will of course depend upon the deal with the bank, but assuming that debt can be secured at say a one point over base, the annual servicing cost would be £4.5m. It seems counter intuitive, but the whole FFP scam lacks common sense, so maybe a solution that on the face of it looks ridiculous (i.e., bringing in debt when you don’t actually need it), is in fact the answer.

The only 'way round' FFP is to increase income and profit.

Taking on debt doesnt increase your profits.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Stick to taking pictures of the campus mate! You're quite good at that. ;-)

For one thing, we'd still have the same costs but loans don't count as revenue.

Second, Sheikh Mansour, as the sole owner of the shares, has to put any money to cover losses in as equity (i. e. buy shares) rather than loans.

Given that we currently have no debt and the likes of United have huge amounts, could ADUG leverage some debt in from the a ‘friendly’ such as The National Bank of Abu Dhabi of say, £300m, use this as a fund for future transfers/wages and have the debt guaranteed by Sheikh Mansour? It appears that debt is fine in FFP rules as long as you can service the interest payments, so it seems sensible to use the our current ‘zero debt’ position to sidestep the FFP restrictions. The servicing costs will of course depend upon the deal with the bank, but assuming that debt can be secured at say a one point over base, the annual servicing cost would be £4.5m. It seems counter intuitive, but the whole FFP scam lacks common sense, so maybe a solution that on the face of it looks ridiculous (i.e., bringing in debt when you don’t actually need it), is in fact the answer.

The only 'way round' FFP is to increase income and profit.

Taking on debt doesnt increase your profits.

The rigid delineation between capital and revenue must have been a real "lightbulb moment" for those that sought to turn FFP into a vehicle for self-preservation.

 

[fbloke]

Given that we currently have no debt and the likes of United have huge amounts, could ADUG leverage some debt in from the a ‘friendly’ such as The National Bank of Abu Dhabi of say, £300m, use this as a fund for future transfers/wages and have the debt guaranteed by Sheikh Mansour? It appears that debt is fine in FFP rules as long as you can service the interest payments, so it seems sensible to use the our current ‘zero debt’ position to sidestep the FFP restrictions. The servicing costs will of course depend upon the deal with the bank, but assuming that debt can be secured at say a one point over base, the annual servicing cost would be £4.5m. It seems counter intuitive, but the whole FFP scam lacks common sense, so maybe a solution that on the face of it looks ridiculous (i.e., bringing in debt when you don’t actually need it), is in fact the answer.

The only 'way round' FFP is to increase income and profit.

Taking on debt doesnt increase your profits.

The rigid delineation between capital and revenue must have been a real "lightbulb moment" for those that sought to turn FFP into a vehicle for self-preservation.

I can almost picture them sat around a table bouncing the word debt around until finally the word debt gets changed to investment.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I can almost picture them sat around a table bouncing the word debt around until finally the word debt gets changed to investment.