City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

It mus be obvious to all that the claims that these regulations had anything at all to do with level playing fields, financial stability or sporting integrity are nothing more than claptrap to give a veneer of respectability to what was a crude ploy to make it impossible for one, then two, Arab owned clubs to compete with those clubs which Platini felt had been essential to the success of the CL, and which depended on CL revenues. City and PSG were fined so much simply because everyone knows they can afford it. Just like the fine facing QPR, it was a greedy, grasping bargain agreed by competitors to further their own unlawful interests. What the courts will see clearly is that shareholders are to be told how they must spend their money and how they must not, while American corporations without any other interest in the game are to be allowed to bankroll clubs for as long as it serves their interests. The machinery set up by UEFA to enforce these regulations has just shown that it won't enforce them consistently or even handedly, but this is irrelevant. There are four, five, six legal challenges currently before the courts? UEFA's regulations must surely be laughed out of court.

 

[Le Havre Oswald]

Can anyone clear something up for me. It's expected we're going to spend big this summer, does this now mean we can spend millions every summer from now? Im not that screwed on with the whole amortisation stuff.

I think its just this year for now and if we past the following year we can again
















Don't listen to me. I haven't got a clue

 

[stony]

It mus be obvious to all that the claims that these regulations had anything at all to do with level playing fields, financial stability or sporting integrity are nothing more than claptrap to give a veneer of respectability to what was a crude ploy to make it impossible for one, then two, Arab owned clubs to compete with those clubs which Platini felt had been essential to the success of the CL, and which depended on CL revenues. City and PSG were fined so much simply because everyone knows they can afford it. Just like the fine facing QPR, it was a greedy, grasping bargain agreed by competitors to further their own unlawful interests. What the courts will see clearly is that shareholders are to be told how they must spend their money and how they must not, while American corporations without any other interest in the game are to be allowed to bankroll clubs for as long as it serves their interests. The machinery set up by UEFA to enforce these regulations has just shown that it won't enforce them consistently or even handedly, but this is irrelevant. There are four, five, six legal challenges currently before the courts? UEFA's regulations must surely be laughed out of court.

We all know why the rules were made and who the target was. It will leave a sour taste in the mouth if after taking our punishment and being labelled as cheats, these rules are suddenly relaxed or scrapped altogether.
The damage has already been done, and our reputation has taken a battering.
In terms of challenging for the title or bringing in the best players, then it was just a "pinch" However, in the wider scheme of things our reputation has taken a real mauling. We got caught financially doping our club(whatever that means). We know its nonsense, but our rivals and the media will always have that stick to beat us with. Which is why we should not have accepted FFP and should have fought it through every legal channel we could.

 

[blueparrot]

Can anyone clear something up for me. It's expected we're going to spend big this summer, does this now mean we can spend millions every summer from now? Im not that screwed on with the whole amortisation stuff.

I think but not sure it works like this.
Suppose we make a profit of £20 mill Then we can spend £100 mill amortised over 5 years. For each of those 5 years we need a £20 mill profit. We can only spend again the following summer, over our sales, if we increase our profit above £20 million. I don't think that would be a problem but I'll now sit back and wait for somebody who knows what they are talking about.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Can anyone clear something up for me. It's expected we're going to spend big this summer, does this now mean we can spend millions every summer from now? Im not that screwed on with the whole amortisation stuff.

In short No.

The underlying principle of FFP is a limit on losses. If we produce a set of accounts with a big loss we will get screwed again. 10 clubs in Europe have fallen foul for their last set of financials and have had fines / squad limits published recently. Our last set was (as far as we can tell) within the maximum loss level. So right now we think we are fine and are free of the previous restrictions (again as far as we can tell). We can not be clear as the statements issued by Uefa and the club are often limited in detail and often slightly contradictory.

If FFP is here to stay and survives legal challenges we must operate near to break even every year. We can’t go round spunking cash and we need to keep the income levels up but we’re in the CL and the PL TV money is about to increase massively. There is a delay in releasing accounts so things like our title win last year and the increasing TV money will hit accounts we release next year and the year after.

So right now we are looking good.

 

[SilverFox2]

It mus be obvious to all that the claims that these regulations had anything at all to do with level playing fields, financial stability or sporting integrity are nothing more than claptrap to give a veneer of respectability to what was a crude ploy to make it impossible for one, then two, Arab owned clubs to compete with those clubs which Platini felt had been essential to the success of the CL, and which depended on CL revenues. City and PSG were fined so much simply because everyone knows they can afford it. Just like the fine facing QPR, it was a greedy, grasping bargain agreed by competitors to further their own unlawful interests. What the courts will see clearly is that shareholders are to be told how they must spend their money and how they must not, while American corporations without any other interest in the game are to be allowed to bankroll clubs for as long as it serves their interests. The machinery set up by UEFA to enforce these regulations has just shown that it won't enforce them consistently or even handedly, but this is irrelevant. There are four, five, six legal challenges currently before the courts? UEFA's regulations must surely be laughed out of court.

We all know why the rules were made and who the target was. It will leave a sour taste in the mouth if after taking our punishment and being labelled as cheats, these rules are suddenly relaxed or scrapped altogether.
The damage has already been done, and our reputation has taken a battering.
In terms of challenging for the title or bringing in the best players, then it was just a "pinch" However, in the wider scheme of things our reputation has taken a real mauling. We got caught financially doping our club(whatever that means). We know its nonsense, but our rivals and the media will always have that stick to beat us with. Which is why we should not have accepted FFP and should have fought it through every legal channel we could.

Any argument that can be used against City from now on is null and void. City are profitable (like the others) City needed initial investment to be profitable (like the others).
They have effectively reduced the timescale that others in the G14 managed to create profitability and they do not suffer with any massive service charge debt or rely on an understanding Government to overlook debt.

Any financial criticism of City from now on effectively incriminates the others. Every one of them needed initial investment then time to grow their business with Chelsea being the latest example.

Bring on the financial criticism and lets see if the whiter than white attitude other clubs rely on survives scrutiny.

 

[IanBishopsHaircut]

Can anyone clear something up for me. It's expected we're going to spend big this summer, does this now mean we can spend millions every summer from now? Im not that screwed on with the whole amortisation stuff.

In short No.

The underlying principle of FFP is a limit on losses. If we produce a set of accounts with a big loss we will get screwed again. 10 clubs in Europe have fallen foul for their last set of financials and have had fines / squad limits published recently. Our last set was (as far as we can tell) within the maximum loss level. So right now we think we are fine and are free of the previous restrictions (again as far as we can tell). We can not be clear as the statements issued by Uefa and the club are often limited in detail and often slightly contradictory.

If FFP is here to stay and survives legal challenges we must operate near to break even every year. We can’t go round spunking cash and we need to keep the income levels up but we’re in the CL and the PL TV money is about to increase massively. There is a delay in releasing accounts so things like our title win last year and the increasing TV money will hit accounts we release next year and the year after.

So right now we are looking good.

Surely though we will not be standing still but continuing to grow into a self sustaining behemoth?

With this fact in mind it's doubtful we will fall foul of FFP again even if it remains

Our profits will only get larger at the end of the day

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

In short No.

The underlying principle of FFP is a limit on losses. If we produce a set of accounts with a big loss we will get screwed again. 10 clubs in Europe have fallen foul for their last set of financials and have had fines / squad limits published recently. Our last set was (as far as we can tell) within the maximum loss level. So right now we think we are fine and are free of the previous restrictions (again as far as we can tell). We can not be clear as the statements issued by Uefa and the club are often limited in detail and often slightly contradictory.

If FFP is here to stay and survives legal challenges we must operate near to break even every year. We can’t go round spunking cash and we need to keep the income levels up but we’re in the CL and the PL TV money is about to increase massively. There is a delay in releasing accounts so things like our title win last year and the increasing TV money will hit accounts we release next year and the year after.

So right now we are looking good.

Surely though we will not be standing still but continuing to grow into a self sustaining behemoth?

With this fact in mind it's doubtful we will fall foul of FFP again even if it remains

Our profits will only get larger at the end of the day

FFP is a risk.

A big splurge in signings ads cost to the business for the length of the contracts, if our wages/fees costs continue to go up and we then drop out of CL for example we would face a drop in income that could tip us back in to losses and trouble.

Right now we are looking good and far better placed than the likes of Tottenham and Liverpool as we have CL football and the income that brings but we must manage the finances carefully. Blindly assuming growing income levels would be a very risky strategy.

 

[FanchesterCity]

It depends on where you believe City are on the growth curve.... are we just getting going and hope to grow at an even faster rate (unlikely), or are we now starting to slow down (more likely)?

That's not to say we aren't continuing to grow, only that the rate of growth is unlikely to be as dramatic / good as it has been, nor does it mean it's impossible we'll exceed all expectations, but it's unlikely.

Whilst we might be just about making a profit, we still aren't whiter than white in most critics eyes. The Etihad deal (rightly or wrongly) is still seen by many skeptics as questionable (along with many other similar deals). It's an easy accusation to throw and won't really go away until we start attracting major sponsors from around the globe.

Once we get a blue chip sponsor from Europe / America / Far East at a level comparable with Arsenal / Chelsea / United etc, most of those accusations will fade away, but until then, we're stuck with it.

We can't spend in the manner we have in the past. It wasn't sustainable then or now. We can't 'blow everybody out of the water'.
What we can do is compete with most of the European elite, and that's all we ever really asked for isn't it? - the chance to compete.

We're in the top half dozen clubs now, and if we can continue to grow, we should be able to stay in that bracket.
We'll probably still struggle to complete with Barca, Bayern and Real Madrid, and possibly United in terms of spend, but we'll be as close to them as we've ever been, and close enough to be able to produce teams that COULD win the CL once a decade.

One final point, but this is crucial.... Revenue is NOT profit.
Profit is more important to us than revenue, although the two often go hand in hand, they needn't do.

A club can have huge revenues and make a loss, whilst another club can have relatively modest revenues and great profits due to a high margin on their product / sales.

 

[blueparrot]

It depends on where you believe City are on the growth curve.... are we just getting going and hope to grow at an even faster rate (unlikely), or are we now starting to slow down (more likely)?

That's not to say we aren't continuing to grow, only that the rate of growth is unlikely to be as dramatic / good as it has been. That's not to say it's impossible we'll exceed all expectations, but it's unlikely.

Whilst we might be just about making a profit, we still aren't whiter than white in most critics eyes. The Etihad deal (rightly or wrongly) is still seen by many skeptics as questionable (along with many other similar deals). It's an easy accusation to throw and won't really go away until we start attracting major sponsors from around the globe.

Once we get a blue chip sponsor from Europe / America / Far East at a level comparable with Arsenal / Chelsea / United etc, most of those accusations will fade away, but until then, we're stuck with it.

We can't spend in the manner we have in the past. It wasn't sustainable then or now. We can't 'blow everybody out of the water'.
What we can do is compete with most of the European elite, and that's all we ever really asked for isn't it? - the chance to compete.

We're in the top half dozen clubs now, and if we can continue to grow, we should be able to stay in that bracket.
We'll probably still struggle to complete with Barca, Bayern and Real Madrid, and possibly United in terms of spend, but we'll be as close to them as we've ever been, and close enough to be able to produce teams that COULD win the CL once a decade.

One final point, but this is crucial.... Revenue is NOT profit.
Profit is more important to us than revenue, although the two often go hand in hand, they needn't do.

A club can have huge revenues and make a loss, whilst another club can have relatively modest revenues and great profits due to a high margin on their product / sales.

Don't think we are quite at the slow down stage yet. If we have increases in the Etihad and Nike deals in the pipeline plus other sponsors for the CFA lined up added to the TV increases we should see a another large increase in income over the next year or two, after that things will probably start to slow.