City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

[Henkeman]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I just read that MOST EXCELLENT "FFP Stinks" blog linked above (thanks for that).

i didn't know it already (actually I did) what it reminded me of, is just how corrupt this whole thing is. It is transparent to anyone with a quarter, let alone a half, of a brain that there can be no justification whatsoever in barring owner equity investment in the name of protecting clubs from going bust. It is equally blindingly obvious that it is about protecting the interests of the cartel, to the detriment of newcomers. I guess the only really surprising thing is that clever lawyers at UEFA didn't manage to hide the real intentions a bit better than they have.

So given it is so intolerably bent, why on earth have we waited 5 years to let it get to this? I know the Bosman lawyer is doing his bit, but even that is quite recent.

I believe it was Edmund Burke who said, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing". And with FFP, lots of good men have done nothing. Would it not have made sense, back in 2009 when these rules were being drafted, to make it clear to UEFA that since the rules were obviously corrupt, that we would never accept them and if they went ahead and introduced them, we would seek to have them overturned in the ECJ. I don't know, but perhaps had we taken a firm line early on, all of this could have been avoided?

Because I seriously doubt City are the good guys here, at least not deliberately. City wanted to get in before the door slammed shut, and yes, voted against it. But ultimately FFP will benefit City by preventing anyone new coming along to challenge. City wanted to pass no question, but I find it a bit hard to believe that if they did or even do, they'll then go on on a moral mission to protest the inequity of it to the likes of Aston Villa.

At the start of this farce , I think that City knew that under the rules of FFP at the time ( crucial) we would probably pass and things would carry on . We'd be safe and uefa would have appeared to do the bidding of we all know who.
Both sides could have said that they had both done their jobs properly. Faces saved all round.
Then , at the last minute , the cartel realised that this was a scenario that was not what they were seeking to achieve at all , so they decided to tell uefa to shift the goalposts .
Result - the chaos and confusion we see now. I think the cartel has well and truly hit the panic button .

The bit I really don't understand about it, is that it's pretty obvious that the whole FFP thing was ultimately too late to stop City and PSG. Sure, it could hamper them, if the established clubs were prepared to take a serious risk, but at best it could buy a year or two. But what it could do was stop anyone else following on afterwards. That being the case, it would have made sense to chivy and push City and PSG into line, without going so far as to make them consider bringing the whole edifice down. They have two major competitors they didn't have before, but ultimately, when it comes down to it, that's manageable - and there's a degree of confidence it won't go further - at least for a few years until someone challenges the whole legal principle (during which time the G14 clubs' position becomes even stronger).

Why pick such a fight now? And especially with City, who have demonstrated quite clearly they intend to break even and self-finance. If anyone was the concern, it had to be PSG, who plainly ignored it.

Even as a strategy for self-defence it doesn't make much sense. It's flawed.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

My money is on a broader international deal with Nike.

I've always thought Nike would be involved in the sports science project, they are already involved in a top facility in the states.

 

[Bodicoteblue]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Because I seriously doubt City are the good guys here, at least not deliberately. City wanted to get in before the door slammed shut, and yes, voted against it. But ultimately FFP will benefit City by preventing anyone new coming along to challenge. City wanted to pass no question, but I find it a bit hard to believe that if they did or even do, they'll then go on on a moral mission to protest the inequity of it to the likes of Aston Villa.

At the start of this farce , I think that City knew that under the rules of FFP at the time ( crucial) we would probably pass and things would carry on . We'd be safe and uefa would have appeared to do the bidding of we all know who.
Both sides could have said that they had both done their jobs properly. Faces saved all round.
Then , at the last minute , the cartel realised that this was a scenario that was not what they were seeking to achieve at all , so they decided to tell uefa to shift the goalposts .
Result - the chaos and confusion we see now. I think the cartel has well and truly hit the panic button .

The bit I really don't understand about it, is that it's pretty obvious that the whole FFP thing was ultimately too late to stop City and PSG. Sure, it could hamper them, if the established clubs were prepared to take a serious risk, but at best it could buy a year or two. But what it could do was stop anyone else following on afterwards. That being the case, it would have made sense to chivy and push City and PSG into line, without going so far as to make them consider bringing the whole edifice down. They have two major competitors they didn't have before, but ultimately, when it comes down to it, that's manageable - and there's a degree of confidence it won't go further - at least for a few years until someone challenges the whole legal principle (during which time the G14 clubs' position becomes even stronger).

Why pick such a fight now? And especially with City, who have demonstrated quite clearly they intend to break even and self-finance. If anyone was the concern, it had to be PSG, who plainly ignored it.

Even as a strategy for self-defence it doesn't make much sense. It's flawed.

I do get the feeling that , as is now becoming fairly apparent , that the whole thing was conceived and drafted in something of a state of panic.
I don't think that the G14 clubs could even countenance the idea of upstarts like us getting our grubby mitts on what they saw as "their money " ( and of course the power that goes with it) especially the English contingent who saw that one of them was going to miss out on CL regularly. ( somebody else on this thread put it better when they said "5 into 4 doesn't go). If they miss CL - the comfort zone starts to look less comfortable.
I think the greedy and avaricious will go to any lengths to protect their empires whatever the cost , and let's face it it's platini and uefa who will pick up the tab for this .

 

[Anonymous]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I don't know, just throwing the question out, he's getting a lot of bad press over these Emails. He's been very vocal about not restricting spending in the Premier League. It's come at the same time as rumours we could try oppose UEFA in court and I'm a conspiracy nut.

Ah! I see. I just had a look at all that and it seems given the reported nature of it all he could end up getting canned. Seems like a disgruntled PA has released them. Shouldn't have done it from a work email address - silly fella. Not sure it has come to light though due to his opposition to FFP, just someone out to make a fast buck I reckon.

If he does go though, it could be interesting as to who would step in - David Gill? Ed Woodward? :))

Guess who's going to decide his fate

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/10829882/Premier-League-chief-Richard-Scudamore-to-face-formal-hearing-for-sexist-emails.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... mails.html</a>

Gill needs castrating (metaphorically of course).

 

[EalingBlue2]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

It is probably a good thing the rags came 7th had they come 5th i reckon the push domestically and from UEFA would have been harder and worst the sponsors Etc would not be against us. As it is we are massively preferable to Everton in the comp in anyone's eyes. Also with arsenal in they have less incentive to really push it!

Interesting that we are studiously trying to get some of the g 14 on side, we seem to have built good relations with Madrid and Milan and are trying with a few others too. I think particularly Madrid are trying to have us and PSG on side rather than as enemies. It does seen that these three have never really gone hard against each other or hard in terms of trying to get each other's players.

I think we want to join and I think some of the g14 are happy for that and it maybe even helps them, I suspect others are a lot lot more concerned

 

[Kinkys Left Foot]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

It would be interesting to see where the club sees FFP in the long term.

I think currently of course its seen as an abhorrence of sorts that prevents us from getting where we want to be in the time frame of our desire.

How will we view it when the current turmoil disappears and we are in the castle courtyard with the drawbridge raised?

Will we fall in line with the rest of the G14 or 15 and wallow in the mire of our own hypocrisy and be happy to line our protectionist pockets knowing that we can never be followed or challenged? Will we happily challenge United and Chelsea and Arsenal for the League (maybe Liverpool again) and fuck everyone else. Our current indignation may seem a little misplaced and I would hate to have Everton and Villa fans take me to task and find myself spouting the bollocks that comes out of the mouths of our Gooner friends today in our defence!
Should we not take a moral stance against it (really the element of break even is the only element that sucks and prevents investment and the initial view for FFP was noble and worthwhile and should have been developed upon with regards to the management of debt). I'm not sure it could survive in this guise or if the whole rotten lot should be dismantled and the whole process be started again. Nothing survives when its foundations are are not built on solid ground.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

It would be interesting to see where the club sees FFP in the long term.

I think currently of course its seen as an abhorrence of sorts that prevents us from getting where we want to be in the time frame of our desire.

How will we view it when the current turmoil disappears and we are in the castle courtyard with the drawbridge raised?

Will we fall in line with the rest of the G14 or 15 and wallow in the mire of our own hypocrisy and be happy to line our protectionist pockets knowing that we can never be followed or challenged? Will we happily challenge United and Chelsea and Arsenal for the League (maybe Liverpool again) and fuck everyone else. Our current indignation may seem a little misplaced and I would hate to have Everton and Villa fans take me to task and find myself spouting the bollocks that comes out of the mouths of our Gooner friends today in our defence!
Should we not take a moral stance against it (really the element of break even is the only element that sucks and prevents investment and the initial view for FFP was noble and worthwhile and should have been developed upon with regards to the management of debt). I'm not sure it could survive in this guise or if the whole rotten lot should be dismantled and the whole process be started again. Nothing survives when its foundations are are not built on solid ground.

Personally my interest in City is about football and the fans, my concern is us winning the league again and going on to win the champs league and really stick it up Platini and the g 14

As I see it if we fight through to the ECJ etc we are very likely to have a few years out of Europe some big punishments and to lose players like aguero who expressly what to win the champs league. For me sacrificing the current team and out progress over 3 years in some moral crusade to rid football if corruption (who are we kidding) would hurt the fans and the club more than anyone else.

If we won and broke UEFA and caused a g 14 to be set up and won 500m why would I care if it meant a team being smashed up and a future with no derbies etc.

I like the prem , I like playing Liverpool, arsenal, the rags these are the games I live for and I don't want a super league in Europe whether we are in it or not and a super league would be 100% inevitable off we smash UEFA. Also for any teams not in the super league TV deals will be going down 80% +

So this moral crusade even if it is worthy could kill a lot of what is good in the game as much as what is bad and as FFP is to our advantage in the mid term it seems like a pretty stupid strategy to me to fight too hard in terms of the team, the fans and the future of the game!

Let someone else do it more gently like DuPont and FFP will go without the consequences for us or football

 

[TrueBlue1705]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Ah! I see. I just had a look at all that and it seems given the reported nature of it all he could end up getting canned. Seems like a disgruntled PA has released them. Shouldn't have done it from a work email address - silly fella. Not sure it has come to light though due to his opposition to FFP, just someone out to make a fast buck I reckon.

If he does go though, it could be interesting as to who would step in - David Gill? Ed Woodward? :))

Guess who's going to decide his fate

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/10829882/Premier-League-chief-Richard-Scudamore-to-face-formal-hearing-for-sexist-emails.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... mails.html</a>

Gill needs castrating (metaphorically of course).

No literally!!

 

[TrueBlue1705]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

It would be interesting to see where the club sees FFP in the long term.

I think currently of course its seen as an abhorrence of sorts that prevents us from getting where we want to be in the time frame of our desire.

How will we view it when the current turmoil disappears and we are in the castle courtyard with the drawbridge raised?

Will we fall in line with the rest of the G14 or 15 and wallow in the mire of our own hypocrisy and be happy to line our protectionist pockets knowing that we can never be followed or challenged? Will we happily challenge United and Chelsea and Arsenal for the League (maybe Liverpool again) and fuck everyone else. Our current indignation may seem a little misplaced and I would hate to have Everton and Villa fans take me to task and find myself spouting the bollocks that comes out of the mouths of our Gooner friends today in our defence!
Should we not take a moral stance against it (really the element of break even is the only element that sucks and prevents investment and the initial view for FFP was noble and worthwhile and should have been developed upon with regards to the management of debt). I'm not sure it could survive in this guise or if the whole rotten lot should be dismantled and the whole process be started again. Nothing survives when its foundations are are not built on solid ground.

Personally my interest in City is about football and the fans, my concern is us winning the league again and going on to win the champs league and really stick it up Platini and the g 14

As I see it if we fight through to the ECJ etc we are very likely to have a few years out of Europe some big punishments and to lose players like aguero who expressly what to win the champs league. For me sacrificing the current team and out progress over 3 years in some moral crusade to rid football if corruption (who are we kidding) would hurt the fans and the club more than anyone else.

If we won and broke UEFA and caused a g 14 to be set up and won 500m why would I care if it meant a team being smashed up and a future with no derbies etc.

I like the prem , I like playing Liverpool, arsenal, the rags these are the games I live for and I don't want a super league in Europe whether we are in it or not and a super league would be 100% inevitable off we smash UEFA. Also for any teams not in the super league TV deals will be going down 80% +

So this moral crusade even if it is worthy could kill a lot of what is good in the game as much as what is bad and as FFP is to our advantage in the mid term it seems like a pretty stupid strategy to me to fight too hard in terms of the team, the fans and the future of the game!

Let someone else do it more gently like DuPont and FFP will go without the consequences for us or football

But the squad restriction are intended to make sure we have virtually no chance of winning the CL anyway - if Gill and UEFA get any joy here you can guarantee Gill will be all over it trying to enforce a similar FFP rule for the PL.

1) Basically its all about cartels, politics and stopping competition/investment

2) UEFA: the G14 want to keep it all for themselves

3) In the PL Man United and Chelsea both who have strong representation in the PL committee/decision making process, they have already positioned themselves in such a way that if they see an opportunity to fuck us over in the PL they will.

4) Gill is a sneaky twat - he's also a qualified accountant, he knows stuff, we need to go after this guy big time, he needs taking down a peg or two and the sooner the better!! He's hell bent on putting a major spanner in the Man City works!!

 

[Ducado]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

It would be interesting to see where the club sees FFP in the long term.

I think currently of course its seen as an abhorrence of sorts that prevents us from getting where we want to be in the time frame of our desire.

How will we view it when the current turmoil disappears and we are in the castle courtyard with the drawbridge raised?

Will we fall in line with the rest of the G14 or 15 and wallow in the mire of our own hypocrisy and be happy to line our protectionist pockets knowing that we can never be followed or challenged? Will we happily challenge United and Chelsea and Arsenal for the League (maybe Liverpool again) and fuck everyone else. Our current indignation may seem a little misplaced and I would hate to have Everton and Villa fans take me to task and find myself spouting the bollocks that comes out of the mouths of our Gooner friends today in our defence!
Should we not take a moral stance against it (really the element of break even is the only element that sucks and prevents investment and the initial view for FFP was noble and worthwhile and should have been developed upon with regards to the management of debt). I'm not sure it could survive in this guise or if the whole rotten lot should be dismantled and the whole process be started again. Nothing survives when its foundations are are not built on solid ground.

Personally my interest in City is about football and the fans, my concern is us winning the league again and going on to win the champs league and really stick it up Platini and the g 14

As I see it if we fight through to the ECJ etc we are very likely to have a few years out of Europe some big punishments and to lose players like aguero who expressly what to win the champs league. For me sacrificing the current team and out progress over 3 years in some moral crusade to rid football if corruption (who are we kidding) would hurt the fans and the club more than anyone else.

If we won and broke UEFA and caused a g 14 to be set up and won 500m why would I care if it meant a team being smashed up and a future with no derbies etc.

I like the prem , I like playing Liverpool, arsenal, the rags these are the games I live for and I don't want a super league in Europe whether we are in it or not and a super league would be 100% inevitable off we smash UEFA. Also for any teams not in the super league TV deals will be going down 80% +

So this moral crusade even if it is worthy could kill a lot of what is good in the game as much as what is bad and as FFP is to our advantage in the mid term it seems like a pretty stupid strategy to me to fight too hard in terms of the team, the fans and the future of the game!

Let someone else do it more gently like DuPont and FFP will go without the consequences for us or football

You don't half worry to much and spout some alarmist nonsense