City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

[M18CTID]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

No-one knows, depends what you mean by "ok". We'll still exist, so on that front we'll be ok, but as for next season's Champion's League, it's not been decided yet. We may have to pay a fine (a withholding of prize money to be more accurate), we may have to reduce our squad, we may even be banned from the Champion's League (although this is a worse case scenario that isn't hugely likely). Alternatively we may be fine and we may be able to prove, via adjudicatory panels and courts, that UEFA have got their accountancy wrong and we have, in fact, passed FFP.

There is no definitive answer at this point.

I have the definitive answer. We have passed FFP.

Cheers for that PAM we can all move on.

IPWT - In Pam We Trust

 

[M18CTID]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I'm not convinced that all of the top clubs particularly wish harm on City or are that arsed about the future of ffp. It's not especially in the interests of Real & Barca for instance, who have benefitted themselves from outside help. PSG don't want it.

Berlusconi, Bayern, & the rival Premier League clubs are the ones behind this imo. The same Premier League clubs who initiated it in this country.

I'm not sure Berlusconi is behind it. Fair enough, he made us look a bit silly over the Kaka fiasco (I think that was more to paint him in a good light though rather than take the piss out of us) but I remember reading an article at the time that said our owner had a stake in Berlusconi's media company. Plus the clubs have done plenty of business since.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

There's a difference between 'going to war' as you put it and defending ourselves. The war you describe is not one of our choosing and I'm not going to repeat 600-odd pages again to explain why this is the case.

We are under attack by the self-serving G14, and if the good ladies and gents of Manchester City sit by and do nothing, imo its just as bad as the G14 starting the 'war' in the first place. If we don't defend ourselves, who do you expect will defend us?

The mooted £50m fine is not pocket change that our owner can just pluck out of thin air and lob at UEFA, it's a lot of money and paying it is as much an afront to most of us as the principle of FFP is. If the G14 want a war, we should defend ourselves and teach the bully's a lesson they won't forget.

That's the point we can't defeat or do any harm to the g14 they would love us to smash UEFA it would save them doing it and they could then do there own thing and make far more money than they do now! Going to war with FFP and bankrupting UEFA may be what the g14 want so they can fully takeover the game and make us the villain and the idiot who does their work for them.

We can fight and win a war against UEFA maybe but we cannot fight a war and beat the g14 who have a supporter base of 2 billion to out optimistic 20 million ! So let's not even pretend we would be doing anything other than playing into their hands by smashing UEFA or taking on the prem league, United would love to get their 500m TV deal and Madrid and Barca would love 300m from champs league not 40m let's not give the g14 what they want.

It would be like George w bush going to war with Iraq to defeat al Qaeda

Sorry, I disagree. Al Qaeda had nothing to do with Iraq but the G14 has everything to do with UEFA who openly represent their interests and licences them.

Scenario:
FFP crumbles and the G14-G18 decide to set up their European Super League whilst UEFA consolidates and upgrades the Champions League (formerly the Europa League). Will the G14 carry FFP with them to their new venture? With FFP now dead in the water, what stomach will UEFA to revive it at the expence of their clubs being unable to compete for players with the G18 clubs? The G14 may carry millions of supporters with them, but the rest of Europe has billions.

After 3 seasons of a European Super League, everyone is getting bored with watching the same G14-G18 teams just playing each other over and over again with no promotion or relegation. The G14 starts to become the haves of

Real Madrid (Spain)
Barcelona (Spain)
Liverpool (England)
Manchester United (England)
Arsenal (England)
Chelsea (England) - Not a G14 or G18 member but likely to be included
Paris Saint-Germain (France)
Bayern Munich (Germany

Versus the have not as much as those above

Internazionale (Italy)
Juventus (Italy)
Milan (Italy)
Marseille (France)
Borussia Dortmund (Germany)
Ajax (Netherlands)
PSV (Netherlands)
Porto (Portugal)
Bayer Leverkusen (Germany)
Lyon (France)
Valencia (Spain)

Yes it's an impressive list of the who's who of European football, but where would they go from there? The same merry go round of teams would demand the lions share of the cash for finishing in the top spots turning the top 8 into a regular top 4. The competition starts to resemble the Premier League where I would assume the top 4 would consist of Barca, Real, Bayern and ManUre/Chavs who'll have the firepower to buy the best from the best and the rest too and would contest a top 4 play off to decide the league winner. But what about PSG who have more money than the rest put together?

To consolidate their position the G19 (as it now is) becomes a new G4 of clubs wanting to stay in the end of season play-off positions. We see it in every league in Europe that the more money that is concentrated in fewer clubs leads to a predicatable procession of a league. Milan decide to get ambitious as do PSG to spend their way into the top 4, does FFP rear its head again to maintain the new status quo?

What goes around, comes around and if there was to be a new European Super League, eventually I can see it going the same way as UEFA is now. But ask yourself this, what happens to UEFA, the national leagues and what would the best of the rest have to say about a new non-invitational European Super League that excludes them?

What is taking place now was always going to happen and the Nouveau Riche clubs across Europe have just accelerated the debate and outcome. If all this were to happen, where does this leave Manchester City? We may not like to admit that we maybe collecting enemies as we follow the path laid out for us by Sheik Mansour, but a very rich man once said to me that you can judge your success by the amount of enemies you collect along the way.

Like I said, this was all going on long before we came along and we didn't cause the greed and protectionist nature of Europe's top clubs. So what do we do, lay down and be neutered by Europe's elite or do we defend ourselves and show them up for what they are?

We do the only thing we should we join the gang, we become the biggest on the gang and we smash from within! We have to split the g14 and win from within trying to take in 14 clubs some I who alone have 20x our supporter base would be stupid. Building from within and becoming the biggest would allow us to take people on only when we are big and powerful enough and ready enough to do so

 

[aguero93:20]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I'm not convinced that all of the top clubs particularly wish harm on City or are that arsed about the future of ffp. It's not especially in the interests of Real & Barca for instance, who have benefitted themselves from outside help. PSG don't want it.

Berlusconi, Bayern, & the rival Premier League clubs are the ones behind this imo. The same Premier League clubs who initiated it in this country.

I'm not sure Berlusconi is behind it. Fair enough, he made us look a bit silly over the Kaka fiasco (I think that was more to paint him in a good light though rather than take the piss out of us) but I remember reading an article at the time that said our owner had a stake in Berlusconi's media company. Plus the clubs have done plenty of business since.

Platini has publicly said that Berlusconi, Moratti and Abramovich were among the first 3 to approach him.

 

[HalfwayUpTheKippax]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

RAWK

YNWA

You'll never wake again?

You're Not Wanking Again?!

 

[M18CTID]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I'm not convinced that all of the top clubs particularly wish harm on City or are that arsed about the future of ffp. It's not especially in the interests of Real & Barca for instance, who have benefitted themselves from outside help. PSG don't want it.

Berlusconi, Bayern, & the rival Premier League clubs are the ones behind this imo. The same Premier League clubs who initiated it in this country.

I'm not sure Berlusconi is behind it. Fair enough, he made us look a bit silly over the Kaka fiasco (I think that was more to paint him in a good light though rather than take the piss out of us) but I remember reading an article at the time that said our owner had a stake in Berlusconi's media company. Plus the clubs have done plenty of business since.

Platini has publicly said that Berlusconi, Moratti and Abramovich were among the first 3 to approach him.

Appreciate that mate but while he might've wanted FFP, I'm not sure he's putting undue pressure on UEFA to impose tough sanctions on us. More than likely that the most vocal clubs are our domestic rivals.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I'm not sure Berlusconi is behind it. Fair enough, he made us look a bit silly over the Kaka fiasco (I think that was more to paint him in a good light though rather than take the piss out of us) but I remember reading an article at the time that said our owner had a stake in Berlusconi's media company. Plus the clubs have done plenty of business since.

Platini has publicly said that Berlusconi, Moratti and Abramovich were among the first 3 to approach him.

Appreciate that mate but while he might've wanted FFP, I'm not sure he's putting undue pressure on UEFA to impose tough sanctions on us. More than likely that the most vocal clubs are our domestic rivals.

Arsenal and Rags in particular.

The rags because they hate us and will always hate us. No other reason. But Arsenal clearly have much more to lose. In the new order, you have 3 clubs guaranteed top 4 places - us, Chelsea and the rags. Then you have Liverpool and Arsenal (and Everton and Spurs) battling it out every year to somehow get in the top 4. And some years Arsenal wont make it. This is big change from their comfy past, and a huge problem for them, huge. Wenger is wanker, but he's not stupid and all of his outbursts are transparently because he is so concerned about our potentially keeping Arsenal out of the top 4.

I am not sure whether Abramovic and Chelsea will be that bothered about us and FFP to be honest. They were against Premier League FFP themselves until a very last minute change of heart, so it's not as if they have been hell bent on supporting it from the start.

I don't even count Liverpool in the debate. They have their istry and everything, fuck all else.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Platini has publicly said that Berlusconi, Moratti and Abramovich were among the first 3 to approach him.

Appreciate that mate but while he might've wanted FFP, I'm not sure he's putting undue pressure on UEFA to impose tough sanctions on us. More than likely that the most vocal clubs are our domestic rivals.

Arsenal and Rags in particular.

The rags because they hate us and will always hate us. No other reason. But Arsenal arguably have much more to lose. In the new order, the guaranteed top 3 every year are us, Chelsea and the rags. Then you have Liverpool and Arsenal (and Everton and Spurs) battling it out every year for 4th spot. And some years Arsenal wont make it. This is a huge problem for them, huge. Wenger is wanker, but he's not stupid and all of his outbursts are transparently because he is so concerned about our potentially keeping Arsenal out of the top 4.

I am not sure whether Abramovic and Chelsea will be that bothered about us and FFP to be honest. They were against Premier League FFP themselves until a very last minute change of heart, so it's not as if they have been hell bent on supporting it from the start.

I don't even count Liverpool in the debate. They have their istry and everything, fuck all else.

Platini said that Berlusconi told him he can't afford to keep financing big money transfers etc at Milan, so he asked for that rule brought in to stop others from doing it. Platini also mentioned Chelsea by name & others have mentioned contact by Wenger etc to his mate. Bayern are on record as strong backers, as are the rags, Liverpool's former CEO has mentioned how this is designed to stop City, because the Champions League wasn't meant for us & is supposed to have the 'historical' clubs finishing in those top places.

People are forgetting also how the Prem & Champs League originally worked. It gave the 'top' clubs an instant advantage which some, like the rags, have maintained since 1992. If the likes of rags, Arse etc, could just derail us for one or two seasons, spend a load of money themselves, they would hope they could retake the top spots & maintain that advantage over us in the future.

It won't work long term as we just have too much financial clout,, but any kind of short term advantage is worth them fighting for & helps their position in the market enormously, even if it doesn't stop us.

It is just a group of businesses trying to use corruption to get ahead of another business. Any advantage they can get, they will try for.

 

[more lazy than useless]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Can't see it mentioned in the last few pages, but thought it worth pointing out that on the OS 'gossip column' page today there is mention of a story which states City are being fined £50M by UEFA and having the CL squad cut.

I know that's nothing new as far as speculation goes, but its the first time I have seen the club officially mention anything to do with the negotiations or speculated punishment, even though its via a roundabout route, and I would have thought that was significant. I take it to mean the stories were true.

Might as well copy and paste it:

Elsewhere, the death of Jean-Luc Dehaene - UEFA’s Financial Fair Play investigator – may delay the case surrounding City’s breach of the FFP rules. The Guardian pick-up the story:

“Dehaene, 73, had been suffering from cancer but died following a fall in France, according to media reports in Belgium. Dehaene was chairman of the Club Football Control Body (CFCB) and it is understood he had been struggling with his illness during recent weeks. He still took an active role in the investigations and had been kept updated with all the documentation.

“City have been made a settlement offer of sanctions including a £49m fine payable over three years, reduction in their Champions League squad from 25 to 21 players, eight of which must be home-trained, and a wage freeze on that squad.

“City had argued the sanctions were too harsh and a final decision from the CFCB is still pending. “

 

[jimbo101]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Can't see it mentioned in the last few pages, but thought it worth pointing out that on the OS 'gossip column' page today there is mention of a story which states City are being fined £50M by UEFA and having the CL squad cut.

I know that's nothing new as far as speculation goes, but its the first time I have seen the club officially mention anything to do with the negotiations or speculated punishment, even though its via a roundabout route, and I would have thought that was significant. I take it to mean the stories were true.

Might as well copy and paste it:

Elsewhere, the death of Jean-Luc Dehaene - UEFA’s Financial Fair Play investigator – may delay the case surrounding City’s breach of the FFP rules. The Guardian pick-up the story:

“Dehaene, 73, had been suffering from cancer but died following a fall in France, according to media reports in Belgium. Dehaene was chairman of the Club Football Control Body (CFCB) and it is understood he had been struggling with his illness during recent weeks. He still took an active role in the investigations and had been kept updated with all the documentation.

“City have been made a settlement offer of sanctions including a £49m fine payable over three years, reduction in their Champions League squad from 25 to 21 players, eight of which must be home-trained, and a wage freeze on that squad.

“City had argued the sanctions were too harsh and a final decision from the CFCB is still pending. “

Take your point, but it's hardly a press release.
I'm sure the Gossip page on the OS also mentions links to possible transfer targets, but only when quoting stories in the papers, so I wouldnt read anything into it.