City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

[cibaman]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

PB: I was being ironic.

If City have failed by a small margin to get the 80 million(ish) in Pre June 2010 contracts excluded then they would have structured the mancini severance package differently and easily complied (or one of a million other things).
Then again the CFCB could driving through their own rules like a Bull in a China Shop and PWC could have indeed invented a whole new meaning for Related Party.

I realise you were being ironic but it was a point worth making and one overlooked to a large degree. If you turned up to court on a speeding charge and got sent down for 10 years, your lawyer would have the sentence laughed out of court.

The point about the Mancini settlement is also a good one. I notice that Brain Dead Ed suggested we'd put all of that through the 2013 accounts to deliberately fail FFP. Really - what can you say about a comment as stupid as that.

Not sure how we could have structured the Mancini package differently to avoid accounting for it in 12/13.

 

[chocovla]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

This.

RIP.

RAWK

YNWA

JFJLD

 

[aguero93:20]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I realise you were being ironic but it was a point worth making and one overlooked to a large degree. If you turned up to court on a speeding charge and got sent down for 10 years, your lawyer would have the sentence laughed out of court.

The point about the Mancini settlement is also a good one. I notice that Brain Dead Ed suggested we'd put all of that through the 2013 accounts to deliberately fail FFP. Really - what can you say about a comment as stupid as that.

Not sure how we could have structured the Mancini package differently to avoid accounting for it in 12/13.

We could have broken it down over the 4 years remaining in his contract and knocked at least 20m off our expenses, not sure if it would have helped if we're not getting the pre 2010 exemption though.

 

[cibaman]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I realise you were being ironic but it was a point worth making and one overlooked to a large degree. If you turned up to court on a speeding charge and got sent down for 10 years, your lawyer would have the sentence laughed out of court.

The point about the Mancini settlement is also a good one. I notice that Brain Dead Ed suggested we'd put all of that through the 2013 accounts to deliberately fail FFP. Really - what can you say about a comment as stupid as that.

Not sure how we could have structured the Mancini package differently to avoid accounting for it in 12/13.

We could have broken it down over the 4 years remaining in his contract and knocked at least 20m off our expenses, not sure if it would have helped if we're not getting the pre 2010 exemption though.

Unless accounting standards have changed since I retired, once you've incurred the liability you have to book the full amount, even if the payments are deferred. The only way of avoiding it would have been to delay making the decision to sack him, but that wasn't a practical option.

 

[aguero93:20]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Or do what Chelsea did with di Matteo and AVB and keep them as employees until they find a new job to avoid one big pay off (lessens the pay of if they find work too). The other option was to wait until the end of season to sack him and offset the effect with the bt money, but that could have hurt our spending this summer.
Again, if we can't use the pre 2010 (and this payoff wouldn't affect our ability to do that) then it wouldn't have made a difference.(

Not sure how we could have structured the Mancini package differently to avoid accounting for it in 12/13.

We could have broken it down over the 4 years remaining in his contract and knocked at least 20m off our expenses, not sure if it would have helped if we're not getting the pre 2010 exemption though.

Unless accounting standards have changed since I retired, once you've incurred the liability you have to book the full amount, even if the payments are deferred. The only way of avoiding it would have been to delay making the decision to sack him, but that wasn't a practical option.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I tend to think we had to book the Mancini costs I don't see another way to do this without other risks or problems. The liability was incurred the moment he was fired the payment cycle to is pretty much irellevant

What we did do that appears smart is book it as actual salary and wages and not a restructure or other cost which gives us legroom in prem FFP terms

 

[BertTrautmann'sParachute]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

This.

RIP.

RAWK

YNWA

YMCA

 

[Dribble]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I am saying it could happen not it will and avoiding this is why I am sure neither UEFA or city will let it get anywhere near that far. We won't take action not in our interests just because a few bombastic fans want to go to war, anymore that NATO will start a world war with Russia over Crimea even if some people think it would be the right thing to do as they think Putin is in the wrong!

There's a difference between 'going to war' as you put it and defending ourselves. The war you describe is not one of our choosing and I'm not going to repeat 600-odd pages again to explain why this is the case.

We are under attack by the self-serving G14, and if the good ladies and gents of Manchester City sit by and do nothing, imo its just as bad as the G14 starting the 'war' in the first place. If we don't defend ourselves, who do you expect will defend us?

The mooted £50m fine is not pocket change that our owner can just pluck out of thin air and lob at UEFA, it's a lot of money and paying it is as much an afront to most of us as the principle of FFP is. If the G14 want a war, we should defend ourselves and teach the bully's a lesson they won't forget.

That's the point we can't defeat or do any harm to the g14 they would love us to smash UEFA it would save them doing it and they could then do there own thing and make far more money than they do now! Going to war with FFP and bankrupting UEFA may be what the g14 want so they can fully takeover the game and make us the villain and the idiot who does their work for them.

We can fight and win a war against UEFA maybe but we cannot fight a war and beat the g14 who have a supporter base of 2 billion to out optimistic 20 million ! So let's not even pretend we would be doing anything other than playing into their hands by smashing UEFA or taking on the prem league, United would love to get their 500m TV deal and Madrid and Barca would love 300m from champs league not 40m let's not give the g14 what they want.

It would be like George w bush going to war with Iraq to defeat al Qaeda

Sorry, I disagree. Al Qaeda had nothing to do with Iraq but the G14 has everything to do with UEFA who openly represent their interests and licences them.

Scenario:
FFP crumbles and the G14-G18 decide to set up their European Super League whilst UEFA consolidates and upgrades the Champions League (formerly the Europa League). Will the G14 carry FFP with them to their new venture? With FFP now dead in the water, what stomach will UEFA to revive it at the expence of their clubs being unable to compete for players with the G18 clubs? The G14 may carry millions of supporters with them, but the rest of Europe has billions.

After 3 seasons of a European Super League, everyone is getting bored with watching the same G14-G18 teams just playing each other over and over again with no promotion or relegation. The G14 starts to become the haves of

Real Madrid (Spain)
Barcelona (Spain)
Liverpool (England)
Manchester United (England)
Arsenal (England)
Chelsea (England) - Not a G14 or G18 member but likely to be included
Paris Saint-Germain (France)
Bayern Munich (Germany

Versus the have not as much as those above

Internazionale (Italy)
Juventus (Italy)
Milan (Italy)
Marseille (France)
Borussia Dortmund (Germany)
Ajax (Netherlands)
PSV (Netherlands)
Porto (Portugal)
Bayer Leverkusen (Germany)
Lyon (France)
Valencia (Spain)

Yes it's an impressive list of the who's who of European football, but where would they go from there? The same merry go round of teams would demand the lions share of the cash for finishing in the top spots turning the top 8 into a regular top 4. The competition starts to resemble the Premier League where I would assume the top 4 would consist of Barca, Real, Bayern and ManUre/Chavs who'll have the firepower to buy the best from the best and the rest too and would contest a top 4 play off to decide the league winner. But what about PSG who have more money than the rest put together?

To consolidate their position the G19 (as it now is) becomes a new G4 of clubs wanting to stay in the end of season play-off positions. We see it in every league in Europe that the more money that is concentrated in fewer clubs leads to a predicatable procession of a league. Milan decide to get ambitious as do PSG to spend their way into the top 4, does FFP rear its head again to maintain the new status quo?

What goes around, comes around and if there was to be a new European Super League, eventually I can see it going the same way as UEFA is now. But ask yourself this, what happens to UEFA, the national leagues and what would the best of the rest have to say about a new non-invitational European Super League that excludes them?

What is taking place now was always going to happen and the Nouveau Riche clubs across Europe have just accelerated the debate and outcome. If all this were to happen, where does this leave Manchester City? We may not like to admit that we maybe collecting enemies as we follow the path laid out for us by Sheik Mansour, but a very rich man once said to me that you can judge your success by the amount of enemies you collect along the way.

Like I said, this was all going on long before we came along and we didn't cause the greed and protectionist nature of Europe's top clubs. So what do we do, lay down and be neutered by Europe's elite or do we defend ourselves and show them up for what they are?

 

[Pam]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I ain't no accountant or legal eagle,and reading through this thread has been a complete head fuck for me..my head is now about as organised as a £1 DVD bin in sainsbury's....can someone just tell me if we will be ok?.....a straight yes or no will do...thanks.

No-one knows, depends what you mean by "ok". We'll still exist, so on that front we'll be ok, but as for next season's Champion's League, it's not been decided yet. We may have to pay a fine (a withholding of prize money to be more accurate), we may have to reduce our squad, we may even be banned from the Champion's League (although this is a worse case scenario that isn't hugely likely). Alternatively we may be fine and we may be able to prove, via adjudicatory panels and courts, that UEFA have got their accountancy wrong and we have, in fact, passed FFP.

There is no definitive answer at this point.

I have the definitive answer. We have passed FFP.

 

[Centurions]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Wow, the first time in a week at least that I've come back to this thread and there's not a minimum of 10 new pages of no news. Only 5 this morning. come on lads and lasses, you're flagging.