Centurions
Well-Known Member
As long as we can backdate it 8 years.
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City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)
- Thread starter Marvin
- Start date
BlueDejong
Well-Known Member
lol
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
As it's champions League night, let's look at the impact of CL prize money on FFP.
Ignoring ticket money, CL prize money for this season increases by 50% (ish)
So qualifying for the group stage = €12.0m (previously €8.6m);
Each group win = €1.5m (€1.0m);
Each group draw = €0.5m (€0.5m);
R16 qualification = €5.5m (€3.5m);
QF qualification = €6.0m (€3.9m);
SF qualification = €7.0m (€4.9m);
Runner Up = €10.5m (€6.5m);
Winner = €15.0m (€10.5m);
Max = €54.5m (€37.4m);
And any club can still only invest €35m over 3 seasons to comply with UEFA FFP!
The existing prize money already turns the list of regular CL qualifiers into a Cartel - The new prize money levels make it very difficult even for a club like Utd to get back in to the CL if you drop out!
I have no idea how you've arrived at the conclusions in you last paragraph, which I think are flawed.
If as you say, the MOST you can earn from the CL is €54m, (and more typically a lot less than that since only 1 team can win it), then this is a pretty small sum compared to the €160m you get for winning the league, or €87m for finishing BOTTOM of the league. And those are last years figures. This year the PL prizes rise to €200m and €132m for finishing last.
For a club like United, the CL prize money is borderline irrelevant. A much bigger issue for them would be loss of sponsorship revenue were they to have a sustained period out of the competition, which sadly is very unlikely.
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Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
I have no idea how you've arrived at the conclusions in you last paragraph, which I think are flawed.
If as you say, the MOST you can earn from the CL is €54m, (and more typically a lot less than that since only 1 team can win it), then this is a pretty small sum compared to the €160m you get for winning the league, or €87m for finishing BOTTOM of the league. And those are last years figures. This year the PL prizes rise to €200m and €132m for finishing last.
For a club like United, the CL prize money is borderline irrelevant. A much bigger issue for them would be loss of sponsorship revenue were they to have a sustained period out of the competition, which sadly is very unlikely.
The word coming from the rags today, is that missing the Champions League cost them £38 mil.
Oh, and the Glazers have decided to pay themselves £15 mil per year out of Utd.
Lol.
mancity dan
Well-Known Member
Any of our learned brethren able to have a stab at what our revenues would have been from 14/15?
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
The word coming from the rags today, is that missing the Champions League cost them £38 mil.
Which in the scheme of things is pretty irrelevant. Without the £38m, they would still be in the world's top 5 clubs by revenue, so hardly "very difficult even for a club like Utd to get back in to the CL if you drop out!"
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Which in the scheme of things is pretty irrelevant. Without the £38m, they would still be in the world's top 5 clubs by revenue, so hardly "very difficult even for a club like Utd to get back in to the CL if you drop out!"
They don't see it as irrelevant judging by today's comments suggesting they require the last 8 of the Champions League & that they won't be having such large transfer windows in the future.
Plus they have to now pay the Glazers £15 mil per year dividend. Ha.
Centurions
Well-Known Member
According to:Any of our learned brethren able to have a stab at what our revenues would have been from 14/15?
they should be out next month although usually they're published nearer to Christmas. So not long to find out from the horses mouth.
mancity dan
Well-Known Member
Thanks ColinLee. I remember past couple of years they come out in mid December.
BlueAnorak
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According to:
they should be out next month although usually they're published nearer to Christmas. So not long to find out from the horses mouth.
They'll be published as close to the end of the financial year as possible to give UEFA very little time to attempt to fuck us over. Unless of course we're so far over the line as to make that impossible.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
They don't see it as irrelevant judging by today's comments suggesting they require the last 8 of the Champions League & that they won't be having such large transfer windows in the future.
Plus they have to now pay the Glazers £15 mil per year dividend. Ha.
Well I am sure they don't like missing £38m of revenue. But does such a hit make it "very difficult even for a club like Utd to get back in to the CL if you drop out!"? No. In that context, it is irrelevant. They can still spend more than 99% of European clubs, with or without CL revenue.
I Guess the Noisy Neighbours just got LOUDER!
BlueAnorak
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Get away, I didn't include matchday and commercial from the above as I thought it was plain enough from the prize money alone.
For a minimum 3 wins and a draw, a R16 qualifier will pull in €22.5m in CL prize money, a QF qualifier €28.5m in prize money.
3 x €22.5m on it's own is €67.5m - On it's own nearly twice as much as what an owner can invest under FFP.
Then you have matchday income - EVEN ikcle City will be pulling in £3.5m a match
- Say an average 52,000 punters rock up to every game @£45 a ticket that's £2.34m a game (€3,913m) + Corporate attendance and additional corporate deals should add at least £1.5m = £3.84m (€5.25m) x 4 (you've qualified for R16) = £15.36m (€26.5m) x 3 years = £46.08m (€79.5m)
So that allows a R16 qualifier to earn €147m over 3 seasons(Utd will get more matchday up from £38m to £50m).
or 4.2 times what an owner is allowed to invest under FFP.
It is the equivalent to City of an additional €49m £(35m) player every year on what a non CL team can buy. And the non CL team can only invest €11.6m (£8.33m) a season to catch up.
I have no idea how you've arrived at the conclusions in you last paragraph, which I think are flawed.
If as you say, the MOST you can earn from the CL is €54m, (and more typically a lot less than that since only 1 team can win it), then this is a pretty small sum compared to the €160m you get for winning the league, or €87m for finishing BOTTOM of the league. And those are last years figures. This year the PL prizes rise to €200m and €132m for finishing last.
For a club like United, the CL prize money is borderline irrelevant. A much bigger issue for them would be loss of sponsorship revenue were they to have a sustained period out of the competition, which sadly is very unlikely.
Get away, I didn't include matchday and commercial from the above as I thought it was plain enough from the prize money alone.
For a minimum 3 wins and a draw, a R16 qualifier will pull in €22.5m in CL prize money, a QF qualifier €28.5m in prize money.
3 x €22.5m on it's own is €67.5m - On it's own nearly twice as much as what an owner can invest under FFP.
Then you have matchday income - EVEN ikcle City will be pulling in £3.5m a match
- Say an average 52,000 punters rock up to every game @£45 a ticket that's £2.34m a game (€3,913m) + Corporate attendance and additional corporate deals should add at least £1.5m = £3.84m (€5.25m) x 4 (you've qualified for R16) = £15.36m (€26.5m) x 3 years = £46.08m (€79.5m)
So that allows a R16 qualifier to earn €147m over 3 seasons(Utd will get more matchday up from £38m to £50m).
or 4.2 times what an owner is allowed to invest under FFP.
It is the equivalent to City of an additional €49m £(35m) player every year on what a non CL team can buy. And the non CL team can only invest €11.6m (£8.33m) a season to catch up.
BlueAnorak
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Get away, I didn't include matchday and commercial from the above as I thought it was plain enough from the prize money alone.
For a minimum 3 wins and a draw, a R16 qualifier will pull in €22.5m in CL prize money, a QF qualifier €28.5m in prize money.
3 x €22.5m on it's own is €67.5m - On it's own nearly twice as much as what an owner can invest under FFP.
Then you have matchday income - EVEN ikcle City will be pulling in £3.5m a match
- Say an average 52,000 punters rock up to every game @£45 a ticket that's £2.34m a game (€3,913m) + Corporate attendance and additional corporate deals should add at least £1.5m = £3.84m (€5.25m) x 4 (you've qualified for R16) = £15.36m (€26.5m) x 3 years = £46.08m (€79.5m)
So that allows a R16 qualifier to earn €147m over 3 seasons(Utd will get more matchday up from £38m to £50m).
or 4.2 times what an owner is allowed to invest under FFP.
It is the equivalent to City of an additional €49m £(35m) player every year on what a non CL team can buy. And the non CL team can only invest €11.6m (£8.33m) a season to catch up.
Historically when clubs have invested to achieve success, they have invested at between 2 and 2,5 times income,
Blue Mooner
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Get away, I didn't include matchday and commercial from the above as I thought it was plain enough from the prize money alone.
For a minimum 3 wins and a draw, a R16 qualifier will pull in €22.5m in CL prize money, a QF qualifier €28.5m in prize money.
3 x €22.5m on it's own is €67.5m - On it's own nearly twice as much as what an owner can invest under FFP.
Then you have matchday income - EVEN ikcle City will be pulling in £3.5m a match
- Say an average 52,000 punters rock up to every game @£45 a ticket that's £2.34m a game (€3,913m) + Corporate attendance and additional corporate deals should add at least £1.5m = £3.84m (€5.25m) x 4 (you've qualified for R16) = £15.36m (€26.5m) x 3 years = £46.08m (€79.5m)
So that allows a R16 qualifier to earn €147m over 3 seasons(Utd will get more matchday up from £38m to £50m).
or 4.2 times what an owner is allowed to invest under FFP.
It is the equivalent to City of an additional €49m £(35m) player every year on what a non CL team can buy. And the non CL team can only invest €11.6m (£8.33m) a season to catch up.
And that doesn't factor in the extra sponsorship revenue you will be able to accrue from the global appeal of the champions league. Would knows what % that adds to commercial sponsorship deals.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
-
Get away, I didn't include matchday and commercial from the above as I thought it was plain enough from the prize money alone.
For a minimum 3 wins and a draw, a R16 qualifier will pull in €22.5m in CL prize money, a QF qualifier €28.5m in prize money.
3 x €22.5m on it's own is €67.5m - On it's own nearly twice as much as what an owner can invest under FFP.
Then you have matchday income - EVEN ikcle City will be pulling in £3.5m a match
- Say an average 52,000 punters rock up to every game @£45 a ticket that's £2.34m a game (€3,913m) + Corporate attendance and additional corporate deals should add at least £1.5m = £3.84m (€5.25m) x 4 (you've qualified for R16) = £15.36m (€26.5m) x 3 years = £46.08m (€79.5m)
So that allows a R16 qualifier to earn €147m over 3 seasons(Utd will get more matchday up from £38m to £50m).
or 4.2 times what an owner is allowed to invest under FFP.
It is the equivalent to City of an additional €49m £(35m) player every year on what a non CL team can buy. And the non CL team can only invest €11.6m (£8.33m) a season to catch up.
All very well and good mate. But your conclusion was "very difficult even for a club like Utd to get back in to the CL if you drop out!" and this is still nonsense.
Since you like to multiply all your numbers by three (to make them sound more significant presumably) then United's revenues over 3 years are circa €1.5bn with or without CL money. That makes they one of the richest clubs in the world, with or without CL money. And therefore - as one of the richest clubs in the world - the idea that they are suddenly so impoverished that they cannot afford to invest enought to get back into the CL again, is just nonsense.
Sure, missing out on the £38m will have pissed them off, but it's really only a "pinch" to use our terminology.
Centurions
Well-Known Member
Just to play devils advocate you would also need to subtract player bonuses and stewarding/policing costs from that (plus god knows what else).And that doesn't factor in the extra sponsorship revenue you will be able to accrue from the global appeal of the champions league. Would knows what % that adds to commercial sponsorship deals.
They don't see it as irrelevant judging by today's comments suggesting they require the last 8 of the Champions League & that they won't be having such large transfer windows in the future.
Plus they have to now pay the Glazers £15 mil per year dividend. Ha.
They are still going to be the wealthiest club in the world in terms of revenue as of next year. Paying their owners £15m a year is nothing for them. We all know the Glazers are the type of owners who take money out of the club whereas ours invest. We are lucky but United are far from doomed if that is what you were insinuating...
Matty
Well-Known Member
They are still going to be the wealthiest club in the world in terms of revenue as of next year. Paying their owners £15m a year is nothing for them. We all know the Glazers are the type of owners who take money out of the club whereas ours invest. We are lucky but United are far from doomed if that is what you were insinuating...
They're not doomed, but whilst the Glazers are in charge they will be forever hamstrung by their business philosophy and their financial aims.