City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

[Anonymous]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Did anyone hear niall Quinn on talksport this morning talking about it,he said that he doesn't think we have been punished enough,just wtf have we done to this lanky streak of piss as to why he hates us so much

He (along with his team mates) was promised a new Ford sports car (amusingly called Probe) from Franny Lee if we managed to stay up. Lee reneged on that and Quinn's been bitter and twisted ever since.

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Did anyone hear niall Quinn on talksport this morning talking about it,he said that he doesn't think we have been punished enough,just wtf have we done to this lanky streak of piss as to why he hates us so much

We made Alan Bollocks his boss. That would finish anyone off. BTW, how can he criticise the level of punishment if no-one knows what it is yet?

 

[rickmcfc]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

This has probably been asked and also answered many times on this thread, but I really don't want to search through hundreds of pages.

1) How exactly did we fail
2) which other clubs failed
3) what are the sanctions
4) can we appeal, and would we?
5) where do we go from here?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

This has probably been asked and also answered many times on this thread, but I really don't want to search through hundreds of pages.

1) How exactly did we fail
2) which other clubs failed
3) what are the sanctions
4) can we appeal, and would we?
5) where do we go from here?

1) We don't know yet
2) We don't know yet
3) We don't know yet
4) We don't know yet
5) Down to the lake I fear.

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

This has probably been asked and also answered many times on this thread, but I really don't want to search through hundreds of pages.

1) How exactly did we fail
2) which other clubs failed
3) what are the sanctions
4) can we appeal, and would we?
5) where do we go from here?

1) Implied nepotism
2)PSG and up to 18 others who are yet unnamed
3)No idea
4)Yes and Don't Know
5)No idea

 

[Sky Blue]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Did anyone hear niall Quinn on talksport this morning talking about it,he said that he doesn't think we have been punished enough,just wtf have we done to this lanky streak of piss as to why he hates us so much

Yeah I heard the wanker. Quite a bit of malice in the way he said it too.

 

[Chancy Termites]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

PWC may have been allowed to look at the deal. We don't know. Lets wait for the announcement of any punishment by UEFA and City's response.
I doubt PWC would be be prepaired comment on whether a deal is fair valve or not - especially if the deal is something radically new.

If it's not to a related party then fair value doesn't come into it.

There is an interesting argument as to whether 'related party' means what it means in other contexts (e.g. GAAP) or whether it has an autonomous meaning within the FFPR. There are several legal concepts, by way of comparison, that have an ordinary meaning in every day domestic legal use but a slightly different one when used within e.g. European Union regulations.

If this argument has any validity, it might mean that even though a transaction would not be a related party transaction for ordinary domestic accounting purposes, it might still be a related party transaction for the purposes of complying with FFPR.

I can see the theoretical argument why 'related party' might have a different meaning within FFPR - basically, it depends upon the intention of the lawmakers when they devised the FFP rules. But as I understand it, the definition of related party transaction in the FFPR is basically cut and pasted from general accounting standards (I can't remember which, but IIRC they are in use across the European Union and you would think that choice is quite deliberate).

So what I can't understand is, if 'related party' means something different in FFPR why the fuck did they use the definition that already has a settled meaning? It's like inventing a flying machine and calling it a submarine - apt to mislead, you might think.

Also, our accountants have been working (quite reasonably) on the assumption that 'related party' does indeed carry its settled meaning. For UEFA now to suggest that it does not, never having done so before, rather begs the question how fair any sanction can possibly be if the reason for breach of FFPR is that a club genuinely and honestly believed it was complying with the regulations bearing in mind the settled definition of 'related party' which appeared to be adopted by the FFPR. For UEFA now to say related party transactions have an autonomous FFPR definition when we have proceeded for the last 3 years that they do not is basically shifting the goalposts. Even if that produces a breach, that cannot legitimately lead to a sanction.

An intelligent, reasoned and well-written post so may I add that Platini's a twat with a tramp's hairstyle.

 

[Zabbasbeard]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

This has probably been asked and also answered many times on this thread, but I really don't want to search through hundreds of pages.

1) How exactly did we fail
2) which other clubs failed
3) what are the sanctions
4) can we appeal, and would we?
5) where do we go from here?

1) We don't know yet
2) We don't know yet
3) We don't know yet
4) We don't know yet
5) Down to the lake I fear.

PB, love that (plus one!) but re 5) are you just demonstrating an unexpected knowledge of 80s boyband lyrics or are you fearfully pessimistic of what sanction(s) we might face? What's the worst you think we might face (I've dipped in and out of this thread so apologies if you answered it already).

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

We all say that clubs like villa newcastle etc are fucked now as it prevents them spending yeah.How about another sheikh comes along ala city..psg etc and says you know what bollocks to europe for a few yrs,im gonna spend x hundred million and win the prem..capital cup..fa cup etc...I understand its the revenue streams from european football but maybe domestic success would be good for a club like newcastle..sumderland..villa..everton etc...im all for breaking it up the cartel that is...

 

[uwe rosler 28]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

What I don't understand is an owner can make £200 million at a club but the moment he wants to re invest that money further down the line he's not allowed in case he breaks the rules.

 

[mcmanus]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

This malarkey about shirt sales in Asia doesn't ring true to me. They are all knock offs.

Once in a vilage in Thailand and the locals were ace so dished out my City shirts.... they phoned their mates miles away to come and see a drunk falang giving football tops away. They couldn't fucking believe they were genuine bought in England merchandise.

Everyone now a fucking blue.

 

[Thenumber1blue]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

This malarkey about shirt sales in Asia doesn't ring true to me. They are all knock offs.

Once in a vilage in Thailand and the locals were ace so dished out my City shirts.... they phoned their mates miles away to come and see a drunk falang giving football tops away. They couldn't fucking believe they were genuine bought in England merchandise.

Everyone now a fucking blue.

I like that !

 

[Marvin]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

We all say that clubs like villa newcastle etc are fucked now as it prevents them spending yeah.How about another sheikh comes along ala city..psg etc and says you know what bollocks to europe for a few yrs,im gonna spend x hundred million and win the prem..capital cup..fa cup etc...I understand its the revenue streams from european football but maybe domestic success would be good for a club like newcastle..sumderland..villa..everton etc...im all for breaking it up the cartel that is...

Two reasons at least

1) How would you get players to play for a club banned from Europe

2) Premiership has its own FFP rules. Even Football League has them and many of the promoted clubs face big fines

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

We all say that clubs like villa newcastle etc are fucked now as it prevents them spending yeah.How about another sheikh comes along ala city..psg etc and says you know what bollocks to europe for a few yrs,im gonna spend x hundred million and win the prem..capital cup..fa cup etc...I understand its the revenue streams from european football but maybe domestic success would be good for a club like newcastle..sumderland..villa..everton etc...im all for breaking it up the cartel that is...

Two reasons at least

1) How would you get players to play for a club banned from Europe

2) Premiership has its own FFP rules. Even Football League has them and many of the promoted clubs face big fines

So basically marvin..its a closed shop now..what a fucking cartel.

 

[yeah whatever !!]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Im sorry..if clubs cant manage their finances then those that can shouldnt be tarred with the same brush.

 

[Dj1979]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

A mate of mine tells me that IF, and it's obviously a very big IF, NYCFC were to buy Messi for £250M and loan him to MCFC for the whole duration of the contract, there is absolutely nothing that UEFA, or FIFA can do about it. This is one of the may areas that FFP, in my opinion, will fail

I do wonder how UEFA would deal with the City Football Group in general.

The whole idea of such an interconnected group of clubs is new and it could be argued that it means that FFP is impossible to adhere to due to the structure of the CFG.

You have 3 (growing to 6 eventually I hear) clubs that exist in very different footballing regions and under very different financial regulations, but they share costs where possible, swap staff and have a group ethos so far removed from the one club model as to lead MCFC to ask UEFA to prove how such a group could ever pass FFP in its current form?

If the rumours of the IP deal causing the FFP fail are true, I would think City and CFG could turn round and ask if FFP is not in fact very significantly limiting the ability of MCFC (A UK Limited company) to trade at a profit at all?

As far as I know the mls hold all player contracts so they could just deny the loan and make messi stay for his contract or nycfc. If they bought him then sold him for a pound that might be different

 

[Mr. Aguia]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I am not sure how FFP benefits speculative "investors" like Mike Ashley

There was a wave of new owners a few years ago, but as owners are not allowed to invest in their football clubs now, the attracting of buying a club dwindles, and therefore clubs like Everton, Newcastle and Sunderland are worth a lot less now than they would have been before FFP. That's my theory anyway. I don't know if it's true as these clubs aren't quoted on a stock exchange, so how do you value them.

That's a fair point but how many clubs are actually going to attract people like Sheikh Mansour or Abramovich? Not one club in the PL in the last 6 years since us. So even before FFP, who was rushing to buy these clubs?

Ashley doesn't want to invest in Newcastle. He just wants them to stay in the PL, around mid-table, avoiding the complications of the Europa League and the near disaster that season in the EL brought them. Then the BT Sport money comes in and he doesn't have to do anything at all and can even take money out.

But how many clubs have gone on the market? Looks like Villa may go on the market and they would have been a club that could have drawn interest. Everton and Newcastle would be 2 others off the top of my head but they aren't going to sell. Teams in large cities with large fan base that have toiled in mediocrity. That with some investment could break through. With FFP those clubs are much less interesting to potential buyers, but we'll never know.

 

[Ghandi's Flip Flops]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

For some reason, whenever i hear other teams like Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal & co bleating about our money etc i am always reminded of a Harry Enfield sketch of Kevin & Perry from years ago.

I can't find the clip but it went along the following lines:-

Kevin & Perry decide they want a Party (to try and be cool with their mates and impress the local girlies)

They pester Kevin's parents until they eventually give in

Party goes ahead

Parents return to find house wrecked and no sign of Kevin & Perry

Eventually locate them hiding in a bedroom (under a bed or in a wardrobe or something)

Parents ask whats gone on, but both are too traumatised to speak.

Eventually Perry is just about able to stammer the following words out.....

'B.B..B.Bigger Boys came'

 

[mcmanus]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

This malarkey about shirt sales in Asia doesn't ring true to me. They are all knock offs.

Once in a vilage in Thailand and the locals were ace so dished out my City shirts.... they phoned their mates miles away to come and see a drunk falang giving football tops away. They couldn't fucking believe they were genuine bought in England merchandise.

Everyone now a fucking blue.

I like that !

I can't speak Thai .... but I think they were saying Manchester not Bangkok.

 

[daztrueblue91]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I think what will certainly work in our favour is the fact that our revenues have dramatically risen since our investment. That in itself should be enough to suggest that owner investment is good for a business model.

Also Platini has backtracked on his original intention as to what FFP actually is, that I doubt he even knows what it is meant to mean (aside from protecting the cartel).

He clearly stated that FFP is designed to stop owners from leaving clubs in a load of debt like Portsmouth or Leeds. However, as long as an owner sorts out sponsors to the club that will protect it even if he walks away then there is no chance of them doing a Pompey. Take this sale of IP rights for example, whether it is an inflated figure or not, sure as long as the money is going into City's coffers when the club is at no risk.

Then there is the whole fair market value excuse. Who actually decides this? and what criteria is it based on?

Will they say that Sunderland cannot get a sponsor as high as United because they are not as marketable? If so FFP will not have a leg to stand on in a court of law.

The whole purpose of FFP was to appease the cartel so that they don't run off and start their own super league. You only have to look at the structure of the CL to work that out. The big money is in the latter rounds, and the big clubs get seeded so they get an easy passage to that stage. For me though its a dangerous game, whilst the league is competitive it is more marketable. However, when FFP allows the cartel to dominate even more that's when the breakaway will come.