City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

[Chippy_boy]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I find it difficult to accept the principle of fining a club for being in debt. Is that not just going to make the club's financial position even more precarious ? I thought the fundamental reasoning of FFP was to prevent clubs getting into difficulties and going under.

The same applies in the Premiership now. Apparently, if QPR are promoted this season they face an immediate £60 million fine ! Absolutely crazy idea.

Haven't we for years been fining clubs for going bust? Equally ridiculous.

 

[uwe rosler 28]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

City need to get together and fight this in court and royally fuck uefa over!

 

[waspish]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Rationally you would expect UEFA to present MCFC as a success for FFP.

Since it was announced, City's annual loss has gone from £200m to £100m to £50m. And for this season the expectation is to breakeven.

Regardless of the hype from the media and the Telegraph's vendetta, I can't see that City ar going to come out of this as the club facing the biggest fines / penalties. I would expect a suspended fine - no more, and a reprimand. It would be absurd to penalise a club who will be profitable next season on the grounds of financial recklessness.

Especially given the chronology of those losses, reducing, as they have, throughout the course of the period of FFP.

Totally agree but they will point at our sponsors not being fair value and our supposed related parties with sponsors so in there twisted self serving minds it's false our reducing of losses..

 

[CITYBOY1000]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I find it difficult to accept the principle of fining a club for being in debt. Is that not just going to make the club's financial position even more precarious ? I thought the fundamental reasoning of FFP was to prevent clubs getting into difficulties and going under.

The same applies in the Premiership now. Apparently, if QPR are promoted this season they face an immediate £60 million fine ! Absolutely crazy idea.

Haven't we for years been fining clubs for going bust? Equally ridiculous.

I don't know that we have Chippy though you might be right. I thought clubs avoiding debt by going into administration are normally either deducted points or relegated or a combination of the two. That is more of a deterrent and you can see how that works. Any fine in such circumstances would likely be unrecoverable anyway.

Under the FFP rules, clubs not going into administration might be pushed towards it by a huge fine.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

According to the French press, PSG have beaten their punishment down to a fine.
It will be interesting to see what City do. If City try to negotiate it down the usual suspects (Arsenal & Utd members of the G14 Cartel) are bound to appeal so City could end up with a larger punishment than PSG. How ironic bearing in mind that PSG haven't even tried to comply.

Big call for Sheikh Mansour coming up.
As a very honourable man he will surely be tempted to reject the UEFA cowboy court decision and take the process to it's ultimate end with FFP being declared the actions of a cartel.Then again he's very intelligent so he might just take the punishment on the chin as an entry fee into joining the cartel.

I hope he takes some sort of action to destroy the G14 cartel and give the fans of every club hope that one day will be their lucky day and they can have the opportunity to compete at the big table.Make no mistake, if FFP is allowed to continue Every club not already in the Champions League Trough will never get the chance to have their day in the Sun.

 

[Dribble]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Morning all. I've been snowed under with work for the last 2 weeks and have only had time for a fleeting glance at this issue.

As I understand it, Platini hasn't specifically mentioned City when he was talking about possible sanctions for failure to comply with ffp but was merely stating that if clubs do fail that there won't be draconian punishments dished out but there might be light punishments by way of a warning or cursory fine.

I've had a quick scoot around, but I can't actually find anything official that say's what we've done wrong (if anything) and what our punishments will be. So without me having to trawl through the thread to get up to speed, could someone please tell me what the actual situation is or point me to a previous post that explains.

Thanks in advance........

 

[Chippy_boy]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

They dreamt up the break-even result, simply to try to stop clubs like us (and specifically us) from outspending the competition. Once that hasn't worked, what other shit might they dream up. I have no idea how low these slimeballs might stoop. What about changing the rules so that training academy investment or stadium expansion costs cannot be excluded? Who knows what they might dream up next.

They'll have to get a move on then as the academy is nearly complete and work on expanding the stadium has started. I think you're worrying too much to be honest and if they were to tweak the rules about excluding stadium expansion costs, that would royally fuck up Liverpool more than us!

I am not worried, and i can see the above possibilities are a bit far fetched. But i am not completely convinced that us just playing along with their petty rules will be the end of it.

 

[Chris in London]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Morning all. I've been snowed under with work for the last 2 weeks and have only had time for a fleeting glance at this issue.

As I understand it, Platini hasn't specifically mentioned City when he was talking about possible sanctions for failure to comply with ffp but was merely stating that if clubs do fail that there won't be draconian punishments dished out but there might be light punishments by way of a warning or cursory fine.

I've had a quick scoot around, but I can't actually find anything official that say's what we've done wrong (if anything) and what our punishments will be. So without me having to trawl through the thread to get up to speed, could someone please tell me what the actual situation is or point me to a previous post that explains.

Thanks in advance........

Nobody knows, dribble. Apparently the club have been written to by UEFA to say 'you have breached FFPR' but it is not clear how they arrive at that conclusion. One possible explanation is that we are in breach in absolute terms but not when you remove the wages paid under Pre 2010 contracts. Another is that their accountants have decided to revalue the Etihad and IP deals according to what they judge to be 'fair value'. There have obviously been leaks that we have been found guilty of something (unless the media is making the whole thing up) but nobody is leaking exactly what it is that has been found against us.

The club's position as I understand it is 'let's see what UEFA have to say first and then we will comment'. So far nobody has made public what it is that UEFA have to say.

So everything you see or hear for the time being is speculation.

But hey Ho, that's what Internet forums are for.

 

[flb]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I'm convinced there's a large sponsorship/ re negotiation looming for the training academy that's open this year.

There seems a hell of a panic on to get it up and running this year in time for the new season or early parts of it.

If the red shite can draw £160 million to have there's re named the AON complex what sort of numbers can we attract for having THE best complex in England and perhaps the World.

 

[TrueBlue1705]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

UEFA haven't got a clue what they're doing .... they've got a French bloke at the helm FFS - FFP willl never last - its total bullsihit and a fundemental restriction of business ...

 

[Centurions]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Morning all. I've been snowed under with work for the last 2 weeks and have only had time for a fleeting glance at this issue.

As I understand it, Platini hasn't specifically mentioned City when he was talking about possible sanctions for failure to comply with ffp but was merely stating that if clubs do fail that there won't be draconian punishments dished out but there might be light punishments by way of a warning or cursory fine.

I've had a quick scoot around, but I can't actually find anything official that say's what we've done wrong (if anything) and what our punishments will be. So without me having to trawl through the thread to get up to speed, could someone please tell me what the actual situation is or point me to a previous post that explains.

Thanks in advance........

Nobody knows, dribble. Apparently the club have been written to by UEFA to say 'you have breached FFPR' but it is not clear how they arrive at that conclusion. One possible explanation is that we are in breach in absolute terms but not when you remove the wages paid under Pre 2010 contracts. Another is that their accountants have decided to revalue the Etihad and IP deals according to what they judge to be 'fair value'. There have obviously been leaks that we have been found guilty of something (unless the media is making the whole thing up) but nobody is leaking exactly what it is that has been found against us.

The club's position as I understand it is 'let's see what UEFA have to say first and then we will comment'. So far nobody has made public what it is that UEFA have to say.

So everything you see or hear for the time being is speculation.

But hey Ho, that's what Internet forums are for.

As said nobody who actually knows is saying so the media just do the usual trick of publishing speculation as 'informed news'.
"Apparently the club have been written to by UEFA", emphasis on 'apparently'.
"One possible explanation is that we are in breach in absolute terms but not when you remove the wages paid under Pre 2010 contracts", my best guess.
"Another is that their accountants have decided to revalue the Etihad and IP deals", the Etihad deal (as far as I'm aware) has already been looked at by UEFA so there's no reason for them to go back over it despite Arsene's most devout wishes. The IP stuff maybe.
"unless the media is making the whole thing up", that's a slanderous statement. The media would never do that.<br /><br />-- Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:40 am --<br /><br />

There's too many Neville Chamberlains on this board.

For every Neville Chamberlain there's a 7th Earl of Cardigan.

Or Pyrrhus of Epirus.

Or the 11th Earl Of Mar?

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I'm convinced there's a large sponsorship/ re negotiation looming for the training academy that's open this year.

There seems a hell of a panic on to get it up and running this year in time for the new season or early parts of it.

If the red shite can draw £160 million to have there's re named the AON complex what sort of numbers can we attract for having THE best complex in England and perhaps the World.

Doubtful, Etihad have already paid almost 3 years of sponsorship on something that basically doesn't exist yet

 

[Clevers]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Even if City agree to settle their case, FFP rules allow Premier League rivals such as Arsenal and Everton to challenge any sanction they deem too lenient. The latter clubs could argue City’s breach materially affected their chances of finishing third or fourth in the table, and thus hindered their European qualification hopes.

Am I right in thinking this is a load of bollocks as UEFA fair play has nothing to do with the effect on the premier league?


By exclusive Rumsby means something he dreamt up last night.

 

[Dribble]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Morning all. I've been snowed under with work for the last 2 weeks and have only had time for a fleeting glance at this issue.

As I understand it, Platini hasn't specifically mentioned City when he was talking about possible sanctions for failure to comply with ffp but was merely stating that if clubs do fail that there won't be draconian punishments dished out but there might be light punishments by way of a warning or cursory fine.

I've had a quick scoot around, but I can't actually find anything official that say's what we've done wrong (if anything) and what our punishments will be. So without me having to trawl through the thread to get up to speed, could someone please tell me what the actual situation is or point me to a previous post that explains.

Thanks in advance........

Nobody knows, dribble. Apparently the club have been written to by UEFA to say 'you have breached FFPR' but it is not clear how they arrive at that conclusion. One possible explanation is that we are in breach in absolute terms but not when you remove the wages paid under Pre 2010 contracts. Another is that their accountants have decided to revalue the Etihad and IP deals according to what they judge to be 'fair value'. There have obviously been leaks that we have been found guilty of something (unless the media is making the whole thing up) but nobody is leaking exactly what it is that has been found against us.

The club's position as I understand it is 'let's see what UEFA have to say first and then we will comment'. So far nobody has made public what it is that UEFA have to say.

So everything you see or hear for the time being is speculation.

But hey Ho, that's what Internet forums are for.

As said nobody who actually knows is saying so the media just do the usual trick of publishing speculation as 'informed news'.
"Apparently the club have been written to by UEFA", emphasis on 'apparently'.
"One possible explanation is that we are in breach in absolute terms but not when you remove the wages paid under Pre 2010 contracts", my best guess.
"Another is that their accountants have decided to revalue the Etihad and IP deals", the Etihad deal (as far as I'm aware) has already been looked at by UEFA so there's no reason for them to go back over it despite Arsene's most devout wishes. The IP stuff maybe.
"unless the media is making the whole thing up", that's a slanderous statement. The media would never do that.

-- Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:40 am --

For every Neville Chamberlain there's a 7th Earl of Cardigan.

Or Pyrrhus of Epirus.

Or the 11th Earl Of Mar?

Thanks Chris and Colin, so the short of it is it's all speculation, so it's as you were..... :-)

Phew! I was shitting it for a minute there thinking the club were on the verge of being closed down and I'd missed the protest march! Lol

We all know FFP is full of shit and I trust the powers that be know what they're doing to keep us motoring forward without this FFP millstone stopping us in our tracks.

Thanks for the update lads

 

[blueparrot]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I'm convinced there's a large sponsorship/ re negotiation looming for the training academy that's open this year.

There seems a hell of a panic on to get it up and running this year in time for the new season or early parts of it.

If the red shite can draw £160 million to have there's re named the AON complex what sort of numbers can we attract for having THE best complex in England and perhaps the World.

Doubtful, Etihad have already paid almost 3 years of sponsorship on something that basically doesn't exist yet

No they haven't Etihad sponsor the whole campus and stadium, not the individual parts. The training ground will have it's own sponsor within that umbrella. Just like BT sponsor City square on the Etihad campus.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I'm convinced there's a large sponsorship/ re negotiation looming for the training academy that's open this year.

There seems a hell of a panic on to get it up and running this year in time for the new season or early parts of it.

If the red shite can draw £160 million to have there's re named the AON complex what sort of numbers can we attract for having THE best complex in England and perhaps the World.

Doubtful, Etihad have already paid almost 3 years of sponsorship on something that basically doesn't exist yet

No they haven't Etihad sponsor the whole campus and stadium, not the individual parts. The training ground will have it's own sponsor within that umbrella. Just like BT sponsor City square on the Etihad campus.

I would think if it was going to have a different sponsor it would be in place by now although last summer there was talk of us getting a new shirt sponsorship. Its all a bit random

 

[blueparrot]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Doubtful, Etihad have already paid almost 3 years of sponsorship on something that basically doesn't exist yet

No they haven't Etihad sponsor the whole campus and stadium, not the individual parts. The training ground will have it's own sponsor within that umbrella. Just like BT sponsor City square on the Etihad campus.

I would think if it was going to have a different sponsor it would be in place by now although last summer there was talk of us getting a new shirt sponsorship. Its all a bit random

I think when they get a definate date for completion and opening is when we will hear any announcement on naming of mini stadium and sponsorship within the academy, plus the bridge of course.

 

[aguero93:20]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Doubtful, Etihad have already paid almost 3 years of sponsorship on something that basically doesn't exist yet

No they haven't Etihad sponsor the whole campus and stadium, not the individual parts. The training ground will have it's own sponsor within that umbrella. Just like BT sponsor City square on the Etihad campus.

I would think if it was going to have a different sponsor it would be in place by now although last summer there was talk of us getting a new shirt sponsorship. Its all a bit random

Like a second shirt sponsor? Etihad still have 6 years left don't they?

 

[bluetonium]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Woke up this morning to be greeted by Sky Sports News and other outlets letting me know City had been told there woudl be a hefty fine and squad restriction for the Champs League. Turns out it is unsourced speculation, but if they did push for this then I imagine we would go to Defcon 1.

Paying a fine is hardly going to help us comply with FFP so the entire basis of FFP woudl come in to question - where does the money go, how does this help clubs become self sufficient etc etc? As for a squad size reduction, if UEFA really want to restrict opportunities for your youth players to gain experience, potentially promising young English players too, then maybe that will be the tide turning in the media. Why restrict our squad size? Why not tell us 3 additional places have to be players at the club for at least 2 years since FFP began and under 23?

City know full well that the juggernaut we are creating is only gathering pace, we'll be making profit very soon, so will depend on whether UEFA want to make an example out of us or work with us. I just wish other clubs and people involved in the game would wake up and smell the coffee before it is far too late - we're safe ultimately, but UEFA are going about this all the wrong way and there are a raft of clubs who will find it very hard to ever build a constantly successful team, maybe one or two in Europe will shrewdly buy within their means and create a good team, but then the big boys will pick it apart ala Bayern with Goetze, based on the fact that they can afford it as they are already eating at the top table.

Anyway, it is all speculation. As I said earlier in the thread, UEFA trying to look big and justify FFP as a success and worthwhile venture. But kick the lion to hard and it will eat your arm, Mr Platini, and City & PSG are going to be two of the biggest lions in the game for many, many years to come regardless of what sanctions are imposed now.

DuPont has a very real case against FFP, I wouldn't be surprised if it is either changed drastically or kicked out as illegal in the next few years anyway. So, if that happens and they have forced sanctions on to us and others, and it turns out they were illegal and potentially caused us to lose revenue, success and to progress, then this could get bigger than UEFA can ever imagine.

I have yet to see FFP, or UEFA in general, help any of the clubs who are actually in financial trouble, such as the lower league teams. The focus is clearly on the top end, as usual, and completely avoids the real issues in financial terms in football.

 

[jrb]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I wonder if the training academy can be broken up, re sponsorship deals. The bridge, the training academy itself, the mini stadium, the central building, etc?