City launch legal action against the Premier League | Club & PL reach settlement | Proceedings dropped (p1147)

kingn6 said:
www.mcoinsights.com

Premier League Clubs - The Hidden Millions — MCO Insights

Premier League Club - Hidden Millions
www.mcoinsights.com www.mcoinsights.com

Came across this article today might interest you guys @Prestwich_Blue @slbsn @halfcenturyup
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The guy clearly put a lot of effort into this, I hope he hasn't been wasting his time. I don't know who he is or who this MCI organisation is, there is a lack of information as far as I can see.

But he certainly isn't an accountant which is a drawback in analysing company structures. Unless I am missing something. For City, for example, he has added the consolidated accounts of CFG, which include all the assets and liabilities of all their subsidiaries, to all the individual accounts of all those UK based subsidiaries (some of which are themselves consolidated) and so he has at least double accounted their assets and cash in his analysis.

I am sure there is a valid point in there about multi-club ownership somewhere but I can't be arsed going into so much detail if his basic understanding of the accounts is so poor.

I would interested to know what other people think of this guy. Is he a serious analyst, or just another chancer who has identified what he hopes will be a nice little earner?

Or am I missing something? Entirely possible, I suppose .....
 
halfcenturyup said:
The guy clearly put a lot of effort into this, I hope he hasn't been wasting his time. I don't know who he is or who this MCI organisation is, there is a lack of information as far as I can see.

But he certainly isn't an accountant which is a drawback in analysing company structures. Unless I am missing something. For City, for example, he has added the consolidated accounts of CFG, which include all the assets and liabilities of all their subsidiaries, to all the individual accounts of all those UK based subsidiaries (some of which are themselves consolidated) and so he has at least double accounted their assets and cash in his analysis.

I am sure there is a valid point in there about multi-club ownership somewhere but I can't be arsed going into so much detail if his basic understanding of the accounts is so poor.

I would interested to know what other people think of this guy. Is he a serious analyst, or just another chancer who has identified what he hopes will be a nice little earner?

Or am I missing something? Entirely possible, I suppose .....
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He has no qualifications in accounting so wtf is he doing writing this tripe.

He does have football coaching qualifications, which took him to the giddy heights of technical directory of the Cook Islands - ( population 15,000 which has 6 football teams ).

If he is the standard of lecturer at UCFB then good luck to their students !
 
KS55 said:
I am sure clubs’ structures and accounting arrangements bear examination, but this is not it.
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:) I particularly liked the way he described associated companies as those which share the same address. If only the people running these billion dollar multi-club ownership structures to cheat on their finances were smart enough to use a different address he would be completely flummoxed ....
 
halfcenturyup said:
The guy clearly put a lot of effort into this, I hope he hasn't been wasting his time. I don't know who he is or who this MCI organisation is, there is a lack of information as far as I can see.

But he certainly isn't an accountant which is a drawback in analysing company structures. Unless I am missing something. For City, for example, he has added the consolidated accounts of CFG, which include all the assets and liabilities of all their subsidiaries, to all the individual accounts of all those UK based subsidiaries (some of which are themselves consolidated) and so he has at least double accounted their assets and cash in his analysis.

I am sure there is a valid point in there about multi-club ownership somewhere but I can't be arsed going into so much detail if his basic understanding of the accounts is so poor.

I would interested to know what other people think of this guy. Is he a serious analyst, or just another chancer who has identified what he hopes will be a nice little earner?

Or am I missing something? Entirely possible, I suppose .....
Click to expand...
You aren’t missing anything. Barely coherent “analysis”.

I’ve mentioned before lots of information is disclosed to authorities beyond the audited accounts. Where clubs have (or are accused of) cheating it’s tended to be matters outside of all group companies. Obviously where clubs have to consolidate for the relevant accounting rules, they do. It is just that the relevant entity for FFP (UEFA and PL) is not always the topco. But that doesn’t mean the relevant costs and revenue are not disclosed.
 
slbsn said:
You aren’t missing anything. Barely coherent “analysis”.

I’ve mentioned before lots of information is disclosed to authorities beyond the audited accounts. Where clubs have (or are accused of) cheating it’s tended to be matters outside of all group companies. Obviously where clubs have to consolidate for the relevant accounting rules, they do. It is just that the relevant entity for FFP (UEFA and PL) is not always the topco. But that doesn’t mean the relevant costs and revenue are not disclosed.
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Good to hear. I thought I maybe losing what little "touch" I have left. With finance or with reality :)
 
A question for Stefan, a poster on Ratetheref is a Bournemouth supporter, with apparently good contacts within the hierarchy of the club. I questioned their recent action in repurchasing their ground in relation to the PL decision to allow them to write off £71:4m of loans from their previous owner. I had indicated that the reason the write off was allowed was because it had been made following the transfer of ownership and so was regarded as a third party loan at the time it was written off. Below is the reply Imreceived indicating rather that the loan had been made for infrastructural developments. I regard the person giving me this information as an ‘honest broker’. Max was the former owner.

What are your thoughts?

“ I believe Max spoke to PL on a regular basis and did seek advice on what he could/couldn't do in legal terms re investment. If not him then Alexey who was the financial whizz. It was discussed at length during the sale of the club. That loan didn't fall under PSR/FPP because it was infrastructure based. It was at least part of what Max had paid for the land at Canford Magna, where our shiny new training facilities are now, and/or the land that the Ted Shed stands on and where the now old training centre is.”
 
halfcenturyup said:
The guy clearly put a lot of effort into this, I hope he hasn't been wasting his time. I don't know who he is or who this MCI organisation is, there is a lack of information as far as I can see.

But he certainly isn't an accountant which is a drawback in analysing company structures. Unless I am missing something. For City, for example, he has added the consolidated accounts of CFG, which include all the assets and liabilities of all their subsidiaries, to all the individual accounts of all those UK based subsidiaries (some of which are themselves consolidated) and so he has at least double accounted their assets and cash in his analysis.

I am sure there is a valid point in there about multi-club ownership somewhere but I can't be arsed going into so much detail if his basic understanding of the accounts is so poor.

I would interested to know what other people think of this guy. Is he a serious analyst, or just another chancer who has identified what he hopes will be a nice little earner?

Or am I missing something? Entirely possible, I suppose .....
Click to expand...

I had a back and forth with the Graun's Phillipe Auclair on that Bluesky about this. He was declaring it to be very important research in that "leading you up the garden path to call fraud without actually saying it is fraud" way that modern journos do. I pointed out that it was difficult to see where financial impropriety was proved becasue the companies used extremely common group structures, and he batted off about opacity instead....

Scratch the surface...
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Thanks. Just read some of those and, to be honest, they aren't desperately insightful. The author is a guy called Jason Stephens, who is a qualified coach but lectures at UCFB, the college specialising in football business. He's gone through publicly-available records at Companies House, so he's hardly MI6.

One thing he did say that caught my eye "This structure allows intra-group transactions that inflate Manchester City’s FFP-compliant revenue by 22% annually", but he doesn't explain how.

He also says the following about Financial Fair Play: Clubs exploit regulatory fragmentation through three primary channels:
  • Revenue Splitting: Allocating commercial income to non-football entities
  • Cost Shifting: Attributing expenses to subsidiaries not subject to FFP
  • Asset Inflation: Overvaluing subsidiary-held assets used as financial collateral
I'm not sure he understands FFP properly, as a subsidiary that provides 'football services" falls within the FFP reporting perimeter. And why would a club seeking to maximise revenue for FFP purposes allocate income to non-football parties.

Might have been quite insightful if he'd backed up some of the points he makes with concrete examples. He doesn't seem to have an overt agenda so I might drop him a message to get his thinking behind some of these claims.
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Did you ever get any answers from this new oracle, PB?
 
jockblue said:
I had a back and forth with the Graun's Phillipe Auclair on that Bluesky about this. He was declaring it to be very important research in that "leading you up the garden path to call fraud without actually saying it is fraud" way that modern journos do. I pointed out that it was difficult to see where financial impropriety was proved becasue the companies used extremely common group structures, and he batted off about opacity instead....

Scratch the surface...
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“Opacity” ……. There’s clubs registered in the Caymen islands, maybe start there.
 
City’s ongoing and multiplying legal actions against the PL puppets reminded me of this tuuuuunne.


Skip 30secs at start
 
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