City Ownership

Look. The British have invaded and exploited foreign lands since time immemorial. The most recent example being the illegal occupation of Iraq. In addition we sell weapons to all sorts of dodgy customers.

While I suspect that Abu Dhabi like many other countries has question marks hanging over it I don't think anyone from this country should be giving lectures.
 
What I don't understand is why Damocles hasn't been man enough to admit he got his "assumption" all completely wrong.

It is plainly clear with the posts of Tolmie and Ajay (Of whom is acutally an Abu Dhabi citizen) why Sheikh Mohammed was thanked.

It again has been made plainly certain whom owns the club.

Yet, still Damocles insists on questioning this.

I suggest you write to the club if you still feel so strongly.
 
JohnMaddocksAxe said:
Haven't had the time to read every post on this thread but judging from the first half dozen pages and selected others, it is a complete embarrassment in parts.

Complete and utter bed wetting clowns are getting their knickers in a twist because a blue dares to have a completely valid, independent thought about something that was suggested last night.

Personally, having thought, and still thinking, that the fact that Shinawatra was the biggest stain ever on the history of this club, I have few concerns regarding the current owners. I also would have thought that Sheik Mohammed would have some sort of input into the strategy of the purchase at some point, even if it is not in an official manner.

What is a joke and a disgrace though are those clowns who have so little regard for the history of this club and so little about them that they see a legitimate question (and one that is very, very, very unlikely to draw negative repercussions, even if it turned out to have some basis) as something that should never be uttered and should be brushed under the carpet by all blues, lest it turn up something they don't like.

These are probably the same disgraces who "couldn't give a fuck" about Thaksin, the most odious man ever to be involved in English football, being associated with our club because they thought, rather stupidly it turns out, that this bastard might have a chance of leading us to success.

The irony is, lots with that attitude think that not giving a fuck about stuff like that makes them "massive blues". To me, not having any concern for the reputation of the club and what it stands for makes you nothing more than a rag-esque, glory hunting, spineless plastic clown, with no feel for the club and the city.

If Sheik Mohammed was proven to be an integral part of the ownership team, nothing bad is likely to come of it anyway. But to give someone grief for raising the question and bleating on about "the press getting hold of this" is pathetic ostrich stuff.

"Don't tell me, don't ask, I might not like the answer."

But really. Who gives a shit about the OP's opinions.

If 2 years of bad press wasn't enough since our owners bought the club, and after the most successful period in the last 35 years, a City fan feels the need to bring the subject matter up because Mancini uttered those words in his celebration speech.

I didn't ask and I didn't want to know. And even though he told me, I couldn't give a f***.
 
moomba said:
JohnMaddocksAxe said:
These are probably the same disgraces who "couldn't give a fuck" about Thaksin, the most odious man ever to be involved in English football, being associated with our club because they thought, rather stupidly it turns out, that this bastard might have a chance of leading us to success.

As one of the "disgraces" that didn't have a problem with Shinawatra, I'm happy to say that we are in a much better position as a football club for his involvement.

I just hope we don't get into the position again where politics and not football becomes the main talking point on a football message board.

Well, "disgraces" is an emotive word and probably wrong of me.

But if you come to a conclusion that he was a suitable character to be the figurehead of this club, then that is just opinion and one anyone is entitled to hold.

But if you were one of the "don't care who he is or what he does, just bothered if there is a chance he might have cash" lot then I don't think the term is too far out of the correct ballpark regarding what would then be a complete disregard for the club as an entity (other than it's balance sheet).

Anyway, my point is, to shout someone down for wanting to know more is really not on imo
 
JoeMercer'sWay said:
because you're just sniping like you normally do.

Damocles is very staunch in his views, the way he goes about expressing them I don't always appreciate.

Whether either of those points makes him right or wrong, "evidence" or no evidence, is an entirely different matter and such judgement should be made on an individual thread basis.
Sniping like I normally do. Interesting perspective. I'd be of the opinion that you fit that description much better than I do. You've been far more negative about the club this year than I have been as well.

I do think you have a point on the way he expresses himself but that's a general issue and we're judging him on an individual thread basis here.

That being the case, what are you doing referring to Damocles' modus operandi? It was you who accused Damocles of dissecting posts and shouting everyone down. He's been subject far more to that kind of treatment (not dissecting - which is not negative behaviour) than he's been responsible for himself on this thread. He asked why Sheikh Mohammed was mentioned when officially he has nothing to do with the club. It's a genuine question. I think fans have a right to be concerned about who owns their club beyond simply the narrow self-interested view of the whether the investment has been beneficial to the club.
 
Skashion said:
JoeMercer'sWay said:
because you're just sniping like you normally do.

Damocles is very staunch in his views, the way he goes about expressing them I don't always appreciate.

Whether either of those points makes him right or wrong, "evidence" or no evidence, is an entirely different matter and such judgement should be made on an individual thread basis.
Sniping like I normally do. Interesting perspective. I'd be of the opinion that you fit that description much better than I do. You've been far more negative about the club this year than I have been as well.

I do think you have a point on the way he expresses himself but that's a general issue and we're judging him on an individual thread basis here.

That being the case, what are you doing referring to Damocles' modus operandi? It was you who accused Damocles of dissecting posts and shouting everyone down. He's been subject far more to that kind of treatment (not dissecting - which is not negative behaviour) than he's been responsible for himself on this thread. He asked why Sheikh Mohammed was mentioned when officially he has nothing to do with the club. It's a genuine question. I think fans have a right to be concerned about who owns their club beyond simply the narrow self-interested view of the whether the investment has been beneficial to the club.

calling a poster a bell-end for example doesn't set a good example to the rest of the users, I agree that there have been those who are summing your last paragraph up perfectly, and I agree with your PoV in that respect.

As for the sniping, well here you are on another thread have a snide little dig about my post, if it isn't you it's SWP Back or mcfcliam with your pitchforks, I only wish Paddy Power would give me the odds on which one of you will be next ;).

Being positive or negative about what the club does isn't sniping if it's a legitimate concern, which I tend to believe(and try to back up) my points are.

That being said, I've found myself being awfully positive about the club in the past few weeks, strange how winning matches breeds confidence and optimism...
 
This thread should be in classic if only for the hilariously inappropriate use of the term glasnost...

As for the rest of it? Amateur Internet conspiracy sleuthery and a desperate search for something to moan about IMO.
 
JoeMercer'sWay said:
calling a poster a bell-end for example doesn't set a good example to the rest of the users, I agree that there have been those who are summing your last paragraph up perfectly, and I agree with your PoV in that respect.

As for the sniping, well here you are on another thread have a snide little dig about my post, if it isn't you it's SWP Back or mcfcliam with your pitchforks, I only wish Paddy Power would give me the odds on which one of you will be next ;).

Being positive or negative about what the club does isn't sniping if it's a legitimate concern, which I tend to believe(and try to back up) my points are.

That being said, I've found myself being awfully positive about the club in the past few weeks, strange how winning matches breeds confidence and optimism...

Have I really done that much to upset you JMW? I think it's all square on who gets the digs in really.

This is true but I'd just thought I'd point it out to show I'm not sniping at the club. Generally I'm very positive about the club. Didsbury Dave even has me down as a tubthumping happy clapper. That's cred right there.

Yes, I've noticed, even Didsbury Dave has been alarmingly positive by his standards over the past few weeks. We need to get that sorted out. Any ideas on the cheese front? Compulsory inflatables day or something?
 
ST Coleridge said:
Didsbury Dave said:
Surely the most notable part of this issue is the fact that the club have done a glasnost on it and edited the content of his speech.

Has Mancini had another "six months and three years" style foot-in-mouth moment? I've been telling you all he's not very bright since he started...

Eh? Do you know what Glasnost means?

LMFAO.
 
I cannot believe how a thread can grow to such gargantuan proportions.Conspiracy on conspiracy ... misplaced statements ... facts quoted that are mere opinions .... panic on the streets of Beswick etc etc.

How so many people overlook the obvious here beggars belief.Then again,you are not like me trained in the arts of the C(L)IA.

Rule one ... go back to the first piece of primary evidence which is usually where the answer lies.

I,ve looked at the video from last night and the answer is there for all to see.

Not anywhere does Roberto make any reference to Sheikh Mohammed in his brief address.

If you play it again though there is however a very quick reference to Sheikh "Marmite".You can hear this clearly.

Half the family love him but half hate him.Because of this and the fact that he is only a distant cousin is why the club thought it best to edit the reference to him from the narrative.

Wars can start when simple things like this are misinterpreted so be more careful and vigilant.

The C(L)IA may not be here to protect you next time!

p.s.Great post Chris (London).
 
Damocles said:
Superb argument Andy; they can treat people like that because it is their culture. I wonder what you reaction would be if it was the type of person you work with and I used the "culture" excuse.

"Well, it's just Western culture to take the piss, who are we to preach that it is wrong?"

Would you accept that as an acceptable response from me, or would you tell me that I was full of shit?


The usual Western response is to go bomb the fk out of them is it not.
 
There's arguably no Govt in the world that doesn't use torture or have human rights issues. Do I ever think about it? NO! Does it bother me? NO! It is widely said that the UAE is the most progressive, democartic, and best country in the middle east. That'll do for me!
 
Damo is obviously an intelligent man and I doubt very much he was not aware of the waves his post would make. What confuses me is why he thought he could get a satisfactory answer to his questions on Bluemoon, and whether he attempted to obtain some form of clarification elsewhere before stirring the pot. I'm also interested to know whether he's raised these issues with his journalist contacts yet or whether he intends to.
Damo has, in the past, made some ludicrous claims and disappeared into the sunset when challenged on them, I'm hoping that he will on this occasion give us a little more to support his inference that we are the vehicle of human rights abusers than some paltry links.
So far the only evidence that there is anything underhand going on is a thankyou speech which has, some say, no deeper meaning than an act of courtesy.
 
blue order said:
I cannot believe how a thread can grow to such gargantuan proportions.Conspiracy on conspiracy ... misplaced statements ... facts quoted that are mere opinions .... panic on the streets of Beswick etc etc.

How so many people overlook the obvious here beggars belief.Then again,you are not like me trained in the arts of the C(L)IA.

Rule one ... go back to the first piece of primary evidence which is usually where the answer lies.

I,ve looked at the video from last night and the answer is there for all to see.

Not anywhere does Roberto make any reference to Sheikh Mohammed in his brief address.

If you play it again though there is however a very quick reference to Sheikh "Marmite".You can hear this clearly.

Half the family love him but half hate him.Because of this and the fact that he is only a distant cousin is why the club thought it best to edit the reference to him from the narrative.

Wars can start when simple things like this are misinterpreted so be more careful and vigilant.

The C(L)IA may not be here to protect you next time!

p.s.Great post Chris (London).

Oh ... we were involved in Glasnost too!
 
Didsbury Dave said:
rickmcfc said:
What a shite thread, well done OP with your gloomy outlook, why post something so controversial when we are all on such a high after recent events? I really do dispair about bluemoon at times and threads like this dont help. We are all entitled to our opinions but there is a time and a place,right now this is neither.

If this thread has affected anyone's enjoyment of the last six weeks, then they have serious social problems.


Nice to think that our Bob has pissed on your bonfire too Dismal.
 
What's got me shaking my head more than anything about this thread is:

All season Damo has been defending Mancini in his interviews with the media, saying how he may have been misquoted or misconstrued due to the language barrier and his broken English

I find it strange that you've choosen to pick up on this and question him now?........................
 
80s Shorts said:
Didsbury Dave said:
rickmcfc said:
What a shite thread, well done OP with your gloomy outlook, why post something so controversial when we are all on such a high after recent events? I really do dispair about bluemoon at times and threads like this dont help. We are all entitled to our opinions but there is a time and a place,right now this is neither.

If this thread has affected anyone's enjoyment of the last six weeks, then they have serious social problems.


Nice to think that our Bob has pissed on your bonfire too Dismal.
Why the OP felt the need for this shit is beyond me! The season has just finsihed and newspapers have virtually nothing of fact to report. therefore they will search high and low for anything that they can print and this story will be back page news in the papers this weekend or after the Champions Lg final has died down!
 
Damocles said:
Bluetones said:
not sure if this has been covered, but one of our directors is called Mohamed al Mazrouie, he may have been talking about him???

It has; he isn't a Sheikh.

Sheikh is an honorary title meaning elder so how do you know that he isnt?
 
You see, I'm a clever c***.

"Judge no one happy until his life is over" is a familiar theme in Greek and Roman philosophical writing. One variant of this is the Sword of Damocles, which is used to describe a sense of foreboding

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btOyj3qM_Dk[/youtube]

Stop me, oh, stop me
Stop me if you think that you've
Heard this one before
Stop me, oh, stop me
Stop me if you think that you've heard this one before

Nothing's changed
I still love you, oh, I still love you
...Only slightly, only slightly less than I used to, my love

And then.........

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsl0hzNBWY&feature=related[/youtube]

I started something
I forced you to a zone
And you were clearly
Never meant to go
Hair brushed and parted
Typical me, typical me
Typical me
I started something
...And now I'm not too sure
 
Still be ST's for sale at united, good bit of moral high ground to be had, yanks never nuked anybody
Damocles said:
fbloke said:
As I mentioned earlier in the thread the idea that the UK, France, Italy, Germany and almost any nation you could name are as guilty of abuse of human rights abuse as almost any other nation.

Logical fallacy number 1: Appeal to Tradition

Do you deny that there are and should continue to be cultural differences across the globe or do you want to create a homogenised global community based on what you perceive to be acceptable values?

2. Strawman

If you accept that difference is 'good' then surely we have to accept that difference causes friction?

3. False dichotomy

I have been involved in the battle to save Garry McKinnon from being extradited to the US because we in the UK deal with people with learning difficulties/disabilities very differently in our judicial system to the way the US have a history and tradition of dealing with the same people.

Culturally we cannot be as close to any country as the US and yet we have such different values.

4. Mind Projection

You seem to be throwing the old accusation that because I appreciate things need to change, but also accept that it will happen at a pace and in a manner that we may not be able to fully agree with, that I simply accept what goes on across the globe.

5. Strawman

Amnesty International are one of a few global organisations that act as the conscience of us all. They serve a valuable role but they are not perfect.

You could say that AI are acting like any other political party - http://www.economist.com/node/8888792 - and have a polemic they want us all to engage with.

http://antiwar.com/henderson/?articleid=9163

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/getting-human-rights-wrong-1.271563

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/david_aaronovitch/article7019817.ece

The simplicity of your argument will never hold water in the real world though as no country is perfect.

6. Appeal to tradition.

That's impressive, even for you mate. Your whole argument seems to be "everybody is shit", which is as absurd as it is disheartening. Your argument is justification for everything that is wrong in the world; under your own system, there is no need for anyone to ever intervene anywhere and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights doesn't need to be enforced because we are "working towards it".

Also, attacking the actions of a source isn't actually an argument, I have no idea why you posted a diatribe against AI.
 

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