City vs. Chelsea Post-Match Discussion Thread

[Marvin]

penalty apart I thought Sergio had a quiet game. Apart from the great run and near miss at the end, I don't remember too many efforts on goal

I still can't get over how poor Chelsea were given their recent results and the importance of the game for them. They are now 5 points behind Spurs and they must beat them at the weekend. if they do not, they will not be in the Champions League next season, and that will be a huge blow for their players, and their club.

 

[salfordblues]

Silva struggled again, think he needs a rest.

Richards and Zab stepped up to the mark well last night, they were outstanding.

Barry came on and did well, enabled us to get maintain possess.

Tevez looked rusty but showed us glimpses of what he can bring to the team.

 

[Dax777]

penalty apart I thought Sergio had a quiet game. Apart from the great run and near miss at the end, I don't remember too many efforts on goal

I still can't get over how poor Chelsea were given their recent results and the importance of the game for them. They are now 5 points behind Spurs and they must beat them at the weekend. if they do not, they will not be in the Champions League next season, and that will be a huge blow for their players, and their club.

The flick over Luiz in the box. The ball control to get it down. The overhead volley. He was decent. Not Super, but decent.

 

[blue10high]

Great post from a Chelsea fan, Spot on

Congratulations on your win. I didn't feel like we deserved to lose, as we were containing you excellently at a ground you can't seem to lose on. But in the grand scheme, you didn't deserve to lose at the Bridge either so I guess it evens out. At least we weren't boned by a terrible ref decision and the game was decided fairly.

I thought neither side really played to their potential. Nasri was exceptional and really deserved his goal and since we lost I hope you carry this momentum forward to take the title off those red bastards. Though it wasn't a great performance from either side, City showed the title winning mental fortitude I thought you've been missing so far. That is a great trait to take forward. Good luck on the final stretch.

 

[Dax777]

I might sound paranoid here but it has only been since De Jong returned to the first team that our attacking flare from early season went away. He seems to be very "old city" in his play style.

I don't agree that De Jong's reintroduction has caused the loss of attacking flare, I think it had already begun before De Jong started to get more involvement in the first team. However I do believe he has exacerbated the situation, his natural game isn't one of quick movement, first time passing and attacking. He likes to take a touch, slow things down, pass the ball sideways rather than forwards. Personally I think at times that's a useful trait to have, however on other occasions he acts as a block to our ambitions.

Passing the ball sideways or backwards in itself is not a problem. The problem occurs when the need to do so was caused by your unnecessary dillying on the ball to start with. And this is often the case with De Jong.

I try to explain this to my kids (not what De Jong does) but the effect. There is something mentally and physically tiring about a ball an opponent is certain he is not getting. But when you cut it back, dilly with it, and are then forced ( as opposed to choose) to pass back, mentally that is a win for the defender. But when the presence of the defender is not registered in the process of passing back, this is not considered a win by defenders. it is considered being dominated and having no chance.

The former is passing back or sideways to avoid losing possession due to pressure. Once you've passed it on your job is done. The latter on the other hand is passing backwards and sideways as part of a series of steps to un-bottle a knot. Here you pass and move as you are passing to reset. This often is the difference btw Yaya's back passing and De Jong's. So it is not really that De Jong doesn't pass forward, or only passes back or side, but rather the intent of De Jong's pass and the complexity of thought that follows it.

 

[Dax777]

NDJ occupies a central and pivotal position in the midfield. With his static and stilted sideways passing (yes its good for his passing stats which his promos keep on trotting out) our strikers does not see great service (wasting their runs). Thats our bottleneck and the 'albatross thats hanging our midfield'. Our opponents are not terrified whenever he gathers the ball from our defense or CBs. Why should they?


IMO VK would be a better choice in more ways than one.
VK has all the football atrributes that NDJ has and MORE. VK can also provide TRUE DEFENSIVE COVER for the CBs. His attacking forays (as recent as against Bolton ) has opened up our eyes.

Lescott, Micah & Kolo are reliable CBs. VK's presence in the central midfield position will be the CLINCHER. Allowing Micah & Kolo to attack too.

NDJ as the CB cover gives me the jeebies.

Just imagine if VK, in lieu of NDJ, would Luke Moore have scored? That Goal may have derailed City's title and maybe the turning point in City's history.

Yesterday we revert to Hughes era (7 draw legacy) i.e chasing a game from behind all because of a poor man's holding midfielder.

We scored in 78 & 85th min after subbing out NDJ (66th. min). The match stats details don't lie.
Even if we were not a goal down we should not be in the predicarment of chasing a match to win with our rich talent.

You dislike NDJ so much that you now focus too much on him and fail to see the full picture. A major part of our problem is poor passing CDs who are stiff and can't comfortably restart an attack from the back. They are positionally poor, and are uncomfortable with anything other than a 6 yard pass. We need better ball playing CDs.

Can we improve on NDJ? Sure. But we will still labour with the CDs we have. City is a team built to possess the ball. That is why we spent over 200 million on midfielders who can. But unfortunately we have defenders who should be starting for Stoke and Everton. Good teams, but teams more inclined to clear the lines. This is why we are struggling. None of Kolo, Micah, or Joleon are decent ball skill CDs.

And until we fix that, we will continue to have a systemic issue. De Jong is simply a tactical issue, the CDs are a system killer!

 

[blueprint]

NDJ occupies a central and pivotal position in the midfield. With his static and stilted sideways passing (yes its good for his passing stats which his promos keep on trotting out) our strikers does not see great service (wasting their runs). Thats our bottleneck and the 'albatross thats hanging our midfield'. Our opponents are not terrified whenever he gathers the ball from our defense or CBs. Why should they?


IMO VK would be a better choice in more ways than one.
VK has all the football atrributes that NDJ has and MORE. VK can also provide TRUE DEFENSIVE COVER for the CBs. His attacking forays (as recent as against Bolton ) has opened up our eyes.

Lescott, Micah & Kolo are reliable CBs. VK's presence in the central midfield position will be the CLINCHER. Allowing Micah & Kolo to attack too.

NDJ as the CB cover gives me the jeebies.

Just imagine if VK, in lieu of NDJ, would Luke Moore have scored? That Goal may have derailed City's title and maybe the turning point in City's history.

Yesterday we revert to Hughes era (7 draw legacy) i.e chasing a game from behind all because of a poor man's holding midfielder.

We scored in 78 & 85th min after subbing out NDJ (66th. min). The match stats details don't lie.
Even if we were not a goal down we should not be in the predicarment of chasing a match to win with our rich talent.

You dislike NDJ so much that you now focus too much on him and fail to see the full picture. A major part of our problem is poor passing CDs who are stiff and can't comfortably restart an attack from the back. They are positionally poor, and are uncomfortable with anything other than a 6 yard pass. We need better ball playing CDs.

Can we improve on NDJ? Sure. But we will still labour with the CDs we have. City is a team built to possess the ball. That is why we spent over 200 million on midfielders who can. But unfortunately we have defenders who should be starting for Stoke and Everton. Good teams, but teams more inclined to clear the lines. This is why we are struggling. None of Kolo, Micah, or Joleon are decent ball skill CDs.

And until we fix that, we will continue to have a systemic issue. De Jong is simply a tactical issue, the CDs are a system killer!

I beg to differ. Kolo is a better and more experienced CB with the skill set than most of us here accept (to wit his performance against Bolton).
That is most of you can't see the woods for the trees regarding NDJ's being a poor man's central midfielder & does not possess the necessary skillset to be a creative midfielder or with the dribbling ability. Both of us agree that we can improve that position with say VK (rather than NDJ). Would you prefer NDJ be the conduit between the defense & our players upfront? Or Yaya and VK ?

Furthermore as pointed out NDJ has serious shortcomings to wit providing cover for the back 4. The most obvious one was the lack of covering Luke Moore which result in City being critically 'wounded' by his header. Likewise Rooney's header etc.

Yaya is is a perfect example of what we need as a central midfielder. Yes he has all the football attributes (pace, aerial ability, and attacking skillset).

Likewise VK would be a better complement to Yaya than NDJ who is a one dimensional player. VK would provide the steel for the defense and attacking options. GOW his attacking foray against Bolton with Kolo providing the CB cover.

Hows that for constructive suggestion?

It beggars my mind that we have a rich array of attacking talent to be held back by a poor man central midfileder. Do we need a holding midfielder who IMO is the bottleneck going forward and can't provide adeguate defensive cover at the critical moment (lack of aerial ability or pace is no excuse) too?

Stats don't lie.

The question is why start & play NDJ for 60 mins (for stalemate or draw?) when we should be on the front foot from the get go.

I'm utterly dismayed when folks suggest that we 'sub out NDJ' after or when we need to go for the win or after a goal down after 60 mins.

Thats what happened the last match.

Don't we guys ever learnt about Hughes legacy of 7 draws and the losses with the holding midfielder concept? Stats don't lie with starting NDJ for 60 mins and subbing him out which inevitably leads to a poor result.

Start without NDJ (or with a better CM like VK) and then bring him on when we are leading should be the MO.

Don't yoke our thoroughbreds down with a plowhorse!

 

[davymcfc]

What a win last night. We are still in this!