hmmm. Best give city a ring tomorrow.
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CL Quarter Final Draw - Liverpool A Apr 4th - H Apr 10th
- Thread starter jrb
- Start date
Stretford Born Blue
Well-Known Member
Where's everyone going for a pre match drink btw.
Somewhere on Walton Road, to be decided.
jimmygrimblesboots
Well-Known Member
If we do not give them an early goal and we do not present them with our usual gift goals at Klanfield , we will win this game in a canter , couldnt care if their atmosphere was Dortmund,Fenerbache,Lazio rolled into one , the havent got a hope if we cut out the mistakes , the Dippers do not create goals against us ,we have previously handed them over on a plate , and its got to stop on Wednesday
Two excellent posts, if I may say so, covering most of the nonsense spouted by other clubs' supporters when they spout their tribal bile against City, as well as reflecting the frustration we Blues feel when responding to said nonsense. I read Gary James' comments on another thread about how important it is for us Blues to try to 'get the facts right' (or words to that effect) when discussing such things with other clubs' supporters. I think you and he both make important points when trying to counter the claptrap other clubs' fans and the media come out with about City, sadly almost on a daily basis.
Speaking as someone who first saw the Blues stick four past the then champions Wolves (all scored by Billy Macadam but to no avail.. Wolves put six past Bert Trautmann.. I was introduced to 'typical City' that day!) I've seen a lot of ups and downs with the Blues. I hope we never become self-entitled or smug after what has happened to our beloved club this past decade. We have been so fortunate and I don't know a single Blue who doesn't acknowledge this good fortune!
I do despair of social media and the sports media in general, how both seem to be platforms to (as above) spout tribal bile, in the case of social media, or make inaccurate or downright wrong assertions about our club, as in the recent Sun pandering to the Liverpool supporters' hogwash regarding ticket sales for the 2nd leg game. And let me make it clear, I despair when I see fellow blues do the same thing too.
One area you touched on (as did Gary James in his posts) is the lack of awareness amongst supporters of the true history of so many of their clubs. Please bear with me whilst I outline a discussion I had with a couple of pals, one an Everton fan, the other a Liverpool supporter, a year or so back. Both had spouted the usual media tosh about City and 'oil money' (with its inherent racism) and us having no history (ie not having won anything for donkey's years and so on) and all the other stuff about buying success.. etc, etc, you know the score..
So, eventually, having sipped on my pint whilst listening to this guff, I slowly knocked each issue they had with City back into the covers, until finally going into some detail about things I knew about their respective clubs, especially how their joint rise to success post-1960 was pump-primed by the Moores family/Littlewoods connections and shareholdings. Everton had consolidated recently as a top flight club for 3-4 years after promotion from the 2nd division and were about to appoint Harry Catterick as manager, whilst Liverpool were still a 2nd division side, with their newly installed manager, Bill Shankly. Both clubs gained significantly from these connections, Everton in 1959-60 to the tune of a £56000 interest free loan from John Moores plus a guarantee to underwrite transfer spending for the next few years. A year later, Liverpool gained funding support to buy, most notably, both Ian St John and Ron Yeats for a total of almost £60000. Within a few years, both had won the 1st division title and the FA Cup, on their way to becoming part of English football's long-term elite.
'So what?' you might say. Well, those sums of money were significant in kick-starting the Everton and Liverpool we came to know (and occasionally support, especially in Europe) over the next few decades. Just as with every other club that has enjoyed successes down the ages, from the Arsenal of the 30's onwards to Nottingham Forest in the late 70s to the modern day Chelsea and now City. And those sums of money given to create 'The School of Science' at Goodison and 'This Is Anfield' across Stanley Park were not piddling amounts. As I then said to my pals it's very difficult to locate club accounts information prior to 1974 but taking that year's statement of accounts for both Everton and Liverpool, they posted 'Incomes' of £499328 and £701289 respectively (with 'Income' defined as gate receipts and other sources of funding such as the club shop, programme sales etc less shares paid to other clubs and taxes etc) These figures were earned after some 10 years of being successful top-flight clubs, during which time both had won 2 titles and also the FA Cup, plus begun their early experience with European competition. Now, using the Bank of England's inflation calculator, £499k and £701k translate to £223k and £314k in 1960. Remember, both were not the giants they later became, so their earnings would probably be much lower - but stick with these numbers for now. The monies given to fund their respective transfer spending of the early 60s represent (£56k and £60k) approx. 25% of Everton's 1960 income, whilst for Liverpool it's 22%. That was some kick-start for both clubs, almost unprecedented at the time and absolutely the key reason for the subsequent successes enjoyed between 1962-74.
Again, 'so what?' Well, my two pals were astounded when I outlined this lot to them. In fact, the Liverpool supporter was blissfully unaware that Everton had benefited to such an extent from the largesse of John Moores et al. Whenever I point such things out to fans from other clubs (should the occasion arise), they too are similarly shocked. The point being that, just as with our 'lottery win' of 2008, so too every club that wants to dine at the top table needs the ackers to go with their ambition. The numbers may have skyrocketed astronomically since the advent of the Premier League but the principle is exactly the same.
And as for the advent of the Premier League, I'd better finish now before I start on that one.. the accretion of power by (first) the 'BIg 5' of Everton, Liverpool, United, Spurs and Arsenal and then the 'Sky 4' of Liverpool, Arsenal United and Chelsea, is another one that rattles my cage when other clubs' fans seem to forget the history of the thing..!
Again, thanks for your posts, you summed things up perfectly for many of us!
Speaking as someone who first saw the Blues stick four past the then champions Wolves (all scored by Billy Macadam but to no avail.. Wolves put six past Bert Trautmann.. I was introduced to 'typical City' that day!) I've seen a lot of ups and downs with the Blues. I hope we never become self-entitled or smug after what has happened to our beloved club this past decade. We have been so fortunate and I don't know a single Blue who doesn't acknowledge this good fortune!
I do despair of social media and the sports media in general, how both seem to be platforms to (as above) spout tribal bile, in the case of social media, or make inaccurate or downright wrong assertions about our club, as in the recent Sun pandering to the Liverpool supporters' hogwash regarding ticket sales for the 2nd leg game. And let me make it clear, I despair when I see fellow blues do the same thing too.
One area you touched on (as did Gary James in his posts) is the lack of awareness amongst supporters of the true history of so many of their clubs. Please bear with me whilst I outline a discussion I had with a couple of pals, one an Everton fan, the other a Liverpool supporter, a year or so back. Both had spouted the usual media tosh about City and 'oil money' (with its inherent racism) and us having no history (ie not having won anything for donkey's years and so on) and all the other stuff about buying success.. etc, etc, you know the score..
So, eventually, having sipped on my pint whilst listening to this guff, I slowly knocked each issue they had with City back into the covers, until finally going into some detail about things I knew about their respective clubs, especially how their joint rise to success post-1960 was pump-primed by the Moores family/Littlewoods connections and shareholdings. Everton had consolidated recently as a top flight club for 3-4 years after promotion from the 2nd division and were about to appoint Harry Catterick as manager, whilst Liverpool were still a 2nd division side, with their newly installed manager, Bill Shankly. Both clubs gained significantly from these connections, Everton in 1959-60 to the tune of a £56000 interest free loan from John Moores plus a guarantee to underwrite transfer spending for the next few years. A year later, Liverpool gained funding support to buy, most notably, both Ian St John and Ron Yeats for a total of almost £60000. Within a few years, both had won the 1st division title and the FA Cup, on their way to becoming part of English football's long-term elite.
'So what?' you might say. Well, those sums of money were significant in kick-starting the Everton and Liverpool we came to know (and occasionally support, especially in Europe) over the next few decades. Just as with every other club that has enjoyed successes down the ages, from the Arsenal of the 30's onwards to Nottingham Forest in the late 70s to the modern day Chelsea and now City. And those sums of money given to create 'The School of Science' at Goodison and 'This Is Anfield' across Stanley Park were not piddling amounts. As I then said to my pals it's very difficult to locate club accounts information prior to 1974 but taking that year's statement of accounts for both Everton and Liverpool, they posted 'Incomes' of £499328 and £701289 respectively (with 'Income' defined as gate receipts and other sources of funding such as the club shop, programme sales etc less shares paid to other clubs and taxes etc) These figures were earned after some 10 years of being successful top-flight clubs, during which time both had won 2 titles and also the FA Cup, plus begun their early experience with European competition. Now, using the Bank of England's inflation calculator, £499k and £701k translate to £223k and £314k in 1960. Remember, both were not the giants they later became, so their earnings would probably be much lower - but stick with these numbers for now. The monies given to fund their respective transfer spending of the early 60s represent (£56k and £60k) approx. 25% of Everton's 1960 income, whilst for Liverpool it's 22%. That was some kick-start for both clubs, almost unprecedented at the time and absolutely the key reason for the subsequent successes enjoyed between 1962-74.
Again, 'so what?' Well, my two pals were astounded when I outlined this lot to them. In fact, the Liverpool supporter was blissfully unaware that Everton had benefited to such an extent from the largesse of John Moores et al. Whenever I point such things out to fans from other clubs (should the occasion arise), they too are similarly shocked. The point being that, just as with our 'lottery win' of 2008, so too every club that wants to dine at the top table needs the ackers to go with their ambition. The numbers may have skyrocketed astronomically since the advent of the Premier League but the principle is exactly the same.
And as for the advent of the Premier League, I'd better finish now before I start on that one.. the accretion of power by (first) the 'BIg 5' of Everton, Liverpool, United, Spurs and Arsenal and then the 'Sky 4' of Liverpool, Arsenal United and Chelsea, is another one that rattles my cage when other clubs' fans seem to forget the history of the thing..!
Again, thanks for your posts, you summed things up perfectly for many of us!
They haven’t really rattled my cage as such, honest! I just find them (as I do the rags) utterly tedious. To be fair, much of the animosity is stage managed by the media. Bar one or two journalists like Samuels, Winter and Holt, the profession is dead in the sense that I knew it as a young man in the 70’s and 80’s, and it exists now solely to make profit from clicks (and the associated sale of advertising space). If you take a paper like the Fail, which regrettably is the most widely read online English language publication in the world I believe, every single story therein comes with a narrative aimed at the largest demographic possible (which on the sports pages means the rags and the dippers) and a comments section. And even stories that are ostensibly about City attract more comments from armchair rags than they do Blues, and so the tone is invariably skewed to what the paper imagines they might like (Martin Samuel said as much himself on Sunday Supplement a couple of months ago).
Anyway, we knew what to expect as soon as the tie came out of the hat, and in that regard the media hasn’t disappointed. I must have seen Mo Salah’s 40 yard chip into an empty City net at least 20 times on Sky Sports News so far, yet not once have I seen Leroy curling in our 5th at the Etihad. The lie that City were “struggling” to sell out the 2nd leg, despite the game being a full 2 weeks away, was entirely predictable as well, because we saw the same MO employed last season for the FA Cup Semi against Arsenal. Never mind that any team with 50000 Norwegians and Indians in reserve to take up the slack and/or stimulate demand, is bound to sell out faster than a team relatively lacking in terms of global support and whose traditional fanbase was ranked 2nd bottom (to Wigan) in a 2013 Deloitte Touché survey about disposable income per head in the Premier League, the media simply view it as an opportunity to get the armchairs all excited about what a “small” club we are and how we’d be in the Championship if it weren’t for Sheikh Mansour (even though we finished 9th in the Prem the year before he showed up). The “small” shtick and the “20 times” shtick actually make me laugh, they’re so ridiculous. The idea of going to say The Hawthorns and taunting West Brom fans for having only won 1 league title to our 4 would never cross my mind, but it’s a raison d’être for your average dipper, even though it becomes less meaningful with every passing year as they continue their quest to become the new Preston North End by 2035.
Whomever the instigator though, the fact is the masses lap it up and it then becomes manifest in the deluded belief that they are “special”, that Klanfield has a “unique atmosphere” and that we will tremble and quake before it (as if we hadn’t just scored 8 goals in Napoli and Rotterdam).
Ultimately I want to beat them so badly it hurts. I’m far from convinced we will for the reason stated in my last post - we come gift wrapped the way we play - and I’ve no doubt that if we do lose, not one Scouser nor any of their media lickspittles will attribute it to anything other than our inability to cope mentally with a “famous European Night at Anfield”. After you with the sick bucket.......
anyone waiting on away tickets being delivered? I've not had the email to say they've been posted yet?
Not got my ticket for the home game through the post yet.
goatfood
Well-Known Member
anyone waiting on away tickets being delivered? I've not had the email to say they've been posted yet?
I'm the same. Bit of a nightmare with bank holiday weekend. Probably means i cant go straight from work on Wednesday and will have to go home first, wasting 2 hours drinking time.
squirtyflower
Well-Known Member
That’s two shandies less thenI'm the same. Bit of a nightmare with bank holiday weekend. Probably means i cant go straight from work on Wednesday and will have to go home first, wasting 2 hours drinking time.
And you’re wasting valuable drinking time now, get your arse in gear and get to town
Perhaps £75 m on a CB more than we spent on KDB is ok? By the way weren’t Liverpool outspending most teams? Barnes, Aldridge, Houghton, Beardsley weren’t cheap at the time.
Yeah, plus they were bankrolled for over 30 years by the Moore's family, which turned them from a poor division 2 team in the 50s, to the machine they became till the 90s... Funny, they never mention that part, with all their history talk!!
taleofbluehalves
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2010
- Messages
- 5,941
I think we should play a bit like we did against Barcelona when we won. A bit more direct and some long straight balls down the middle for Aguero to run onto. Liverpool really struggle with
those long balls.
those long balls.
Was thinking exactly the same thingI think we should play a bit like we did against Barcelona when we won. A bit more direct and some long straight balls down the middle for Aguero to run onto. Liverpool really struggle with
those long balls.