Climate Change is here and man made

[Skashion]

But you just said:

When you melt ice cubes in floating water, the level stays the same.

How is that the same?!

You're claiming sea ice is the bigger problem that people are more arsed about when you're fannying about with the relative weights of ice and sea water, which amounts to less than 2% of sea level rise.

As I say, I'm trying to talk about THE big issue, you're talking about 2% of sea level rise.

 

[Damocles]

Isn't this exactly what SWP said?

Did I reject that claim anywhere?

 

[BulgarianPride]

Isn't this exactly what SWP said?

Did I reject that claim anywhere?

No, you didn't. However i am confused, as there a few others on here, who think you suggested the melting of the current sea ice is the big problem.

Edit: Post below clears up my confusion.

 

[Damocles]

But you just said:

When you melt ice cubes in floating water, the level stays the same.

How is that the same?!

You're claiming sea ice is the bigger problem that people are more arsed about when you're fannying about with the relative weights of ice and sea water, which amounts to less than 2% of sea level rise.

As I say, I'm trying to talk about THE big issue, you're talking about 2% of sea level rise.

No I'm not, I'm talking about the increase of the amount of a certain type of ice which has a large bearing on the overall climate and ecosystem. You're the only one talking about sea ice melting rising means a huge change. I've consistently said that the problem is the amount of sea ice, not the melting of it. In fact, I eevn went to great lengths to mock corky for conusing ice sheets and ice shelves

I corrected a simple error you made on the Archimedes Principle and the difference between sea and fresh water which had little to do with the overall point.

This is exactly why I saw this three pages ago, called it a miscommunication and asked that we stick to science before you told me that I hadn't a clue what I was talking about.

 

[Skashion]

No I'm not, I'm talking about the increase of the amount of a certain type of ice which has a large bearing on the overall climate and ecosystem. You're the only one talking about sea ice melting rising means a huge change. I've consistently said that the problem is the amount of sea ice, not the melting of it. In fact, I eevn went to great lengths to mock corky for conusing ice sheets and ice shelves

I corrected a simple error you made on the Archimedes Principle and the difference between sea and fresh water which had little to do with the overall point.

This is exactly why I saw this three pages ago, called it a miscommunication and asked that we stick to science before you told me that I hadn't a clue what I was talking about.

Alright, let's dial it back then, and establish some facts.

1. The vast majority of sea level rise, give or take, 60m of the possible 70m, CAN ONLY come from the melting of the land-based East Antarctic ice sheet. The Western Antarctic ice sheet and Greenland pale in comparison.

2. This ice sheet is not only not melting but gaining mass.

3. Even if it did start melting, it would take thousands of years to melt.

 

[johnny on the spot]

Sorry folks, it's happening and we are doing it. Peak oil to happen within our lifetimes and your kids to grow up in chaos. Sleep tight.

 

[Damocles]

No I'm not, I'm talking about the increase of the amount of a certain type of ice which has a large bearing on the overall climate and ecosystem. You're the only one talking about sea ice melting rising means a huge change. I've consistently said that the problem is the amount of sea ice, not the melting of it. In fact, I eevn went to great lengths to mock corky for conusing ice sheets and ice shelves

I corrected a simple error you made on the Archimedes Principle and the difference between sea and fresh water which had little to do with the overall point.

This is exactly why I saw this three pages ago, called it a miscommunication and asked that we stick to science before you told me that I hadn't a clue what I was talking about.

Alright, let's dial it back then, and establish some facts.

1. The vast majority of sea level rise, give or take, 60m of the possible 70m, CAN ONLY come from the melting of the land-based East Antarctic ice sheet. The Western Antarctic ice sheet and Greenland pale in comparison.

2. This ice sheet is not only not melting but gaining mass.

3. Even if it did start melting, it would take thousands of years to melt.

I agree with 1 and 2. Number 3 fails to take into consideration numerous other factors from the arguments that I've seen.

More sea ice produces more polynias. This is important for several reasons. Sea ice goes through a process called brine rejection which desalinates the water in the ice and produces the heavy salt water that sinks to the bottom and has an effect on thermohaline circulation, effecting water density and heat loss. More of this water means more salt in surface water. It also means hotter air which is blown directly onto the land ice mentioned at a logarithmic rate. In addition to this, sea ice absorbs far, far less sunlight than land ice which changes the radiation budget of the region which again has knock on effects for everything else.<br /><br />-- Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:38 pm --<br /><br />

he will be back in a bit once he's trawled the internet and come back with some clever stuff he passes off as his own work

Why don't you ask the people who have met me whether I'm just Googling this stuff?

 

[Damocles]

Go for it, let us all know your results

 

[Skashion]

I agree with 1 and 2. Number 3 fails to take into consideration numerous other factors from the arguments that I've seen.

I'd invite your own calculation on that then. Assume your parameters. I won't even ask why. All I'll do is compare them to current rates from Greenland.

 

[johnny on the spot]

I hope nobody here is microwaving their popcorn.