Climate Change is here and man made

Ancient Citizen said:
Good answer, and thanks for the clarity.
However, point one suggests general increases in temperature, if the poles are increasing, how is this so?
Point two is in existence because of point one, in your view, if the temperatures haven't increased, (so we're told)
why is climate change even being discussed?
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no prob, this is a horrendously complicated and interconnected area of science and our lives in general, sort of reflecting the world we live in really :)

Point 1, i think, is obviously a bedrock principle for those who believe anthropogenic climate change and you'll even find plenty of people who do not believe in anthropogenic climate change also agreeing there are long term warming trends (then there is a smaller group who deny even the long term warming). It is the connection between human activity and point 2, climate change, that is the biggy.

Point 2 is indeed in existence because of point 1. I personally do not see how you could claim average temperature changes would NOT have an effect on general climate patterns as climate etc is driven by heat fluxes, ability of air to carry enegy/water, polar jet streams and many other temperature driven phenomena.

And once again i think many folks still acknowledge the above but do not believe it is anthropogenic climate change but merely natural fluctuations, ice age cycles etc etc.

so, we calve off another group of folks and end up with two groups who both believe there is warming & climate change but disagree on its origin. And then there are a whole load of grey levels about agreeing to the degree/intensity that human activity has an effect.

the increasing temperatures are a fact of the last few centuries, this is not lies or anything, but depending on how far back you go you are looking at recent warming, long term warming or even long term cooling with recent upward fluctuation. This nicely highlights a problem of climate science which is timescales.

(The icecaps mentioned in previous posts has been distorted by the poster and if you read the articles youll see that they refer to thin ice, thick ice, and imbalance in the Arctic ice)
 
bluethrunthru said:
Everything is the result of climate change we are told- I take issue wit a lot of it because the climate is a dynamic force that has never stood still anyway and most of these people make forecasts and draw conclusions on such a vast scale that they - you- an I - will be long gone by the time they are proven right or wrong so its easy to say stuff with conviction always knowing you are never going to have to answer for it.
If someone got a country to invest in measures at huge expense based on say a 10 year period I'd have more respect because they would have to answer for their mistake. In 2009 work began on flood defences to prevent another "one in a 1000 year event " flooding of the city. Three years after completion they were found to be inadequate. The answer ? Would have been even worse if they hadn't built them !! Hardly a decent answer for those flooded after the reassurances they have had.
In my view we need to accept things have are and will change and look at how we deal with the effects not try and arrest and even reverse climate change.
And my point btw was that Al Gore's film points to the diminishing ice shelf as an effect of climate change
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I agree
 
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