Common sense or ethically wrong

[blueparrot]

So what’s your alternative to democracy?

Stupid question. Immigration on need not wages isn't undemocratic. Just sensible.

 

[stonerblue]

Good to see the left are being well reasoned on this.

Is this not the case now we've changed the rules?

 

[stonerblue]

Every PM has advisers, Campbell was the brains behind Blair.

Yes, and he was a twat as well.

 

[Ban-jani]

Stupid question. Immigration on need not wages isn't undemocratic. Just sensible.

That isn’t my point at all. I’m in favour of immigration on need and this points system that is colourblind.

My point is specifically against your argument against the politicians deciding. Of course they should, we’ve democratically elected them to represent us and businesses only care about their own profits, so shouldn’t decide.

 

[Ban-jani]

Yes, and he was a twat as well.

Well that’s one argument and I may agree but fundamentally it’s normal and democratic for a PM to have a trusted adviser(s).

 

[Ban-jani]

Is this not the case now we've changed the rules?

Is what not the case?

The system will grant more points to those who have experience and skills in what the UK is lacking and needs. Those that don’t will not be able to come.

This is standard immigration policy across the world.

 

[stonerblue]

Is what not the case?

The system will grant more points to those who have experience and skills in what the UK is lacking and needs. Those that don’t will not be able to come.

This is standard immigration policy across the world.

That we fuck off all those i mentioned?

 

[Ban-jani]

That we fuck off all those i mentioned?

It’s not fucking them off, they’re not here yet to be “fucked them off”.

Tell me, what immigration controls would you install if it was up to you?

 

[blueparrot]

That isn’t my point at all. I’m in favour of immigration on need and this points system that is colourblind.

My point is specifically against your argument against the politicians deciding. Of course they should, we’ve democratically elected them to represent us and businesses only care about their own profits, so shouldn’t decide.

Okay, maybe saying politicians shouldn't decide was the wrong way of putting it. Politicians shouldn't be deciding or awarding points without checking with businesses what's needed and deciding on that rather than a figure plucked out of the air. I don't beleive there should be any cut off in wages if workers are needed they are needed.

 

[Ban-jani]

Okay, maybe saying politicians shouldn't decide was the wrong way of putting it. Politicians shouldn't be deciding or awarding points without checking with businesses what's needed and deciding on that rather than a figure plucked out of the air. I don't beleive there should be any cut off in wages if workers are needed they are needed.

I don’t for a minute believe that’s what’s happening.

I work for a large staffing company and we can tell you where we’re short, in the UK quite easily. Cyber Security, for example, had thousands of unfilled vacancies in 2019 and companies are desperate for those professionals.

The government will know this and nurses, teachers and other people that are needed and aren’t exactly loaded, will be given extra points.

They’re talking about people with no or little experience and no qualifications and therefore wouldn’t necessarily know what job they’d be going into.

 

[blueparrot]

I don’t for a minute believe that’s what’s happening.

I work for a large staffing company and we can tell you where we’re short, in the UK quite easily. Cyber Security, for example, had thousands of unfilled vacancies in 2019 and companies are desperate for those professionals.

The government will know this and nurses, teachers and other people that are needed and aren’t exactly loaded, will be given extra points.

They’re talking about people with no or little experience and no qualifications and therefore wouldn’t necessarily know what job they’d be going into.

Auxilliary hospital staff, care home staff,restaurants hospitallity,/ tourism. Farm workers.Near me salmon / fish processing all rely heavily on immigrant work forces.

 

[blueinsa]

Australia and New Zealand dont have too many issues with such a system and i dont hear calls for their system to be scrapped because its all so unfair?

 

[Ban-jani]

Auxilliary hospital staff, care home staff,restaurants hospitallity,/ tourism. Farm workers.Near me salmon / fish processing all rely heavily on immigrant work forces.

The entire Anglosphere has this policy and they heavily rely on migrant workers too.

It’s very simple - UK businesses and advisers to HS - “Ms Patel we need more care home staff” - “okay I’ll give enough points to people with that experience to migrate”.

Done.

That’s over simplified I know but we can change it whenever we wish based on need.

 

[blueinsa]

The entire Anglosphere has this policy and they heavily rely on migrant workers too.

It’s very simple - UK businesses and advisers to HS - “Ms Patel we need more care home staff” - “okay I’ll give enough points to people with that experience to migrate”.

Done.

That’s over simplified I know but we can change it whenever we wish based on need.

It really isn't complicated.

Skill shortages are highlighted and applications to fill those gaps encouraged and prioritised.

 

[blueparrot]

The entire Anglosphere has this policy and they heavily rely on migrant workers too.

It’s very simple - UK businesses and advisers to HS - “Ms Patel we need more care home staff” - “okay I’ll give enough points to people with that experience to migrate”.

Done.

That’s over simplified I know but we can change it whenever we wish based on need.

So why have any income set at zero ? That makes it impossible to reach the magical 70 points. Job offer ,relevant skill, speaks English only gets you 50. So all those employers have to go through patel to get special dispensation. That's just ridiculous.

 

[mat]

That's my town fucked.


Apart from two small businesses everything else is run by Poles, Turks and Latvians.


As there's shit loads of people who in my town that moan having to work for 15 hours, let alone have the ideas and support financially to replace them. These rules will kill it.

 

[Fame Monster]

I think the principles are good but I think this will still lead to immigration and population growth above the level that most people are happy with.

An overall cap would have been better with the best 300,000/400,000 chosen on the basis of salary with exceptions made for certain important needs of the economy.

That way, you can reliably plan for certain infrastructure needs.

 

[Ban-jani]

So why have any income set at zero ? That makes it impossible to reach the magical 70 points. Job offer ,relevant skill, speaks English only gets you 50. So all those employers have to go through patel to get special dispensation. That's just ridiculous.

No, where there’s shortages they will allow people to come more easily. Companies will be encouraged to hire talent already here first.

It won’t be done on an individual basis, it will be done where we are lacking.

Our country is massively overpopulated and we have a limited infrastructure and territory to have 500,000+ people coming every year.

Thank god the government are looking to massively reduce this.

 

[Ban-jani]

I think the principles are good but I think this will still lead to immigration and population growth above the level that most people are happy with.

An overall cap would have been better with the best 300,000/400,000 chosen on the basis of salary with exceptions made for certain important needs of the economy.

That way, you can reliably plan for certain infrastructure needs.

That cap, I’m presuming is net (?), will still have us going towards a point of our infrastructure collapsing and the countryside disappearing.

I agree we still need it but it needs to come right down.

 

[blueparrot]

No, where there’s shortages they will allow people to come more easily. Companies will be encouraged to hire talent already here first.

It won’t be done on an individual basis, it will be done where we are lacking.

Our country is massively overpopulated and we have a limited infrastructure and territory to have 500,000+ people coming every year.

Thank god the government are looking to massively reduce this.

Net migration to the UK, , was estimated to be 258,000 in 2018. Doubt that figure will fall by a great deal anytime soon. It'll just introduce more beaurocracy and red tape and wasted time for businesses recruiting as well as the government.