Common sense or ethically wrong

  • Thread starter Thread starter ganganvince
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Saddleworth2 said:
It’s not ethically wrong. A nation has every right to control its borders. It is stupid though (at least as devised by Priti Patel). It will only last a couple of years in its current format. And before anyone says...we are a very different nation to Canada and Australia. I just hope the EU reciprocate by insisting all expats are capable of speaking the native language.
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For workers yes, I'd agree, this policy is directed at them, I don't think retirees are included.
 
grunge said:
not really looked recently but from my understanding retirees wanting to retire to another country just need a fuck ton of cash to buy a house and in the bank after.

Edit: Canada for example, You just cant move there to retire. its just not a thing.

https://www.worldfirst.com/uk/blog/your-money/living-abroad/how-to-retire-to-canada/
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Australia is another. To protect their health care system being bogged down by geriatrics like me I cannot go for longer than 6 months at a time. My son, wife and soon to be grandson are out there but the cut off age for being able to live there is 35.
It doesn't matter how much in savings I have, I wont be allowed to stay.
 
What problem are they actually trying to solve?

We aren’t going to deport anyone so those that can’t get school places still won’t be able to, those that apparently can’t recognise their high street still won’t be able to and NHS waiting lists won’t be going down

The U.K. is almost at full employment and wages are apparently rising. So what’s the problem?

If people are in low paid jobs the Tory message used to be ‘get on your bike’. It’s a supply and demand issue. Typically cutting off the labor market isn’t a good idea

It seems to me to be reactionary. Being seen to do something, anything.

If school places are a problem then build more schools. If low pay is the issue, pay the public sector more. How are they getting on with the 40 hospitals. China did a couple in a week so we must be making some progress
 
Len Rum said:
Reciprocation?
What about Brits who want to retire to Spain but don't sprechen zee lingo?
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I think you'll find this nuance has been spotted, just once or twice, in the last 4 years. What on earth is the point in going over and over and over the same lame old ground again and again? We're leaving. The end.
 
Ban-jani said:
They can literally change what’s categorised as a job that’s underpopulated, at any time, to ensure we allow people in.

It’s worked very well in Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
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As I understand it immigration is different between Australia and New Zealand in that they have a form of FoM applicable between these two countries.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
But like their ridiculous policy on spouse earnings, this fails to take into account average earnings in different parts of the country. It basically means that the only degrees worth studying are the ones where you're going to work in a big city afterwards, preferably London. It basically follows the ideology that someone who studied art history at Exeter University for example is contributing more if they move to London and get a job in recruitment than if they stay in Devon and work for a museum on a comparatively lower salary. But then that's always been the Tory ideology, particularly since Thatcher's era. If something has no financial value, then it has no value to the country.
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Well lots of things have value or that you'd class as a skill. I know 'freestylers' who can do lots of kick-ups, I like to think I'm half-decent at FIFA, there are people out there who can beatbox, but there must come a point where you have to decide which skills our society need to be subsidised by the state and which skills don't. Are there any courses you think the government shouldn't pay for? Gender Studies? Xbox Studies? Liverpool FC Studies? Singing? Women's Studies? Football Studies etc?
 
Chippy_boy said:
It's not the whole point.

The aspect you are missing is that if we simply pay ourselves more, to pay for our more expensive goods and services, which in turn makes our goods and services even more expensive... then no-one other than Brits will buy our overly expensive goods and services. And moreover, Brits will increasingly buy from abroad where these goods and services are available more cheaply. Goodbye English Coxes, hello French Golden Delicious. Goodbye Lloyds, hello Santander.

So our entire export business and balance of trade collapses and and with it, our economy.

We do not live in a bubble. The only way to sustainably pay ourselves more is to increase productivity and to do higher value work. i.e. get out of low paid work. Get machines to do it, or people from other countries who are prepared to do it for less. Your proposed "solution" does not and cannot work.
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This was the sort of logic that big businesses used as to why we couldn't legislate for a minimum wage.
 
aguerrrroooooooooooo said:
This was the sort of logic that big businesses used as to why we couldn't legislate for a minimum wage.
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To be fair, it's the sort of logic all sorts of people used, not only big business. And have they been proven wrong? Unemployment may not have increased as a result (some studies show that it has, but it is not conclusive). But it has (according to the Low Pay Commission who surprisingly enough are massively supportive) still resulted in increased prices and reduced profits, reduced investment. And then you consider we've been running a trade deficit for like ever, and our growth rates have been pitiful. How much more would we have invested, sold and exported without these changes?

I am not arguing against a minimum wage BTW and I see merits (obviously) in having one. But to imagine we can simply increase peoples' pay without adverse consequences is naive in the extreme.
 
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