Congestion charge poll

Matty said:
Bluemoon115 said:
ElanJo said:
Anyone who supports or votes for taxation is an immoral bloodsucking criminal.




That said, the congestion charge will benefit me!!, so I will be voting YES.... ;) ;)
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It will benefit you in the short term, maybe. But you then also lose the right to complain about companies putting prices up for, well, anything, seeing as they are only covering the cost that you have forced upon them.
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This is what people don't see, the bigger picture. Any company based within Greater Manchester will have numerous shops that require deliveries etc, the cost of these will increase with the charge. Who do you think this cost will be passed on to? Everyone, regardless of whether you drive or not. As a driver it will be tantamount to paying the congestion charge twice, once to drive and then once to cover the cost to companies.
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delivery drivers will pay a maximum of ten pounds a day, regardless of the number of times they cross the ring.
Most of them are too smart to fuck about trying to drive in rush hour traffic anyway.
As for 'losing the right to complain', simply take your custom elsewhere.

And as for those poor little multi-national, owners and shareholders rolling in cash anyway, sell people over-priced shit they don't need, type of shops, tough. Let that Peel Holdings bloke take a bit of a hit in the pocket.

Yes.
 
stonerblue said:
delivery drivers will pay a maximum of ten pounds a day, regardless of the number of times they cross the ring.
Most of them are too smart to fuck about trying to drive in rush hour traffic anyway.
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If they've got guaranteed 'before 10am' deliveries on, then they don't have much of a choice.
 
It's just a joke tax. I'm fed up of people thinking the arguments for it are plausible.

The adverts around the City Centre:

Man in suit - "I can't afford to miss my early morning meetings
Tradesman - "I can't afford to be late on site"
Single mum - "I won't have to pay the charge because I use the bus"
Student (I actually know the guy who's picture they took) - "More buses? Can't argue with that"
Low-paid worker (it's the same picture as the guy above) - "Cheaper transport for lower paid workers, sounds good to me".

Right. If anyone can believe that those comments will be fact after the congestion charge, then you're not educated enough to vote yes.

The traffic won't disappear overnight, tradesman will be travelling into town right when the charge is in effect, so will be charged twice for going in and out of the zones. Same with businessmen. There won't be more buses, the bus companies just won't be forced into it. And look the increase in train prices, the companies will be putting their prices up as usual.

I VOTE NO!
 
I am voting yes - I live on one of the major routes into Manchester (A57 Hyde Road) and I have watched for 5 years as the congestion has got worse. I travel away from Manchester towards the M60 for work. Most mornings the traffic is backed up to Debdale Park - about 4 miles.

Eight months ago I was working in the City centre and it was taking an hour to travel 3 miles out of town. The traffic is normally backed up from the M60 all the way into Manchester.

Like it or not we have to do something about this and if I have to take a hit in the pocket to sort out the mess Thatcher has left us with (1980 Transport Act - deregulating public transport has caused all this) then I am prepared to do so. We have to put money into public transport. Yes I have my doubt's about trusting the Government, but I don't want to be part of a generation that sat on their fat backsides and did nothing.
 
those of you who'll be voting no are you like the stable boys in the fox hunting debate

Peel holdings is brainwashing you all
 
goatfood said:
I am voting yes - I live on one of the major routes into Manchester (A57 Hyde Road) and I have watched for 5 years as the congestion has got worse. I travel away from Manchester towards the M60 for work. Most mornings the traffic is backed up to Debdale Park - about 4 miles.

Eight months ago I was working in the City centre and it was taking an hour to travel 3 miles out of town. The traffic is normally backed up from the M60 all the way into Manchester.

Like it or not we have to do something about this and if I have to take a hit in the pocket to sort out the mess Thatcher has left us with (1980 Transport Act - deregulating public transport has caused all this) then I am prepared to do so. We have to put money into public transport. Yes I have my doubt's about trusting the Government, but I don't want to be part of a generation that sat on their fat backsides and did nothing.
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You are awarea that:-

A - The traffic travelling AWAY from Manchester won't drop as they won't have top pay in the mornings, so the charge won't help you at all in that respect.

B - The increased congestion in the Hyde Road area is NOTHING to do with extra traffic and everything to do with Council interference. The bus lane near the bus depot, the right turn section heading out of town at the same spot. The new sets of traffic lights at Belle Vue and then at the new Tescos. All of these have been sanctioned by Manchester Council. The car driver is not at fault for these.

C - There will be limited improvements in the Gorton and Reddish area, the proposals show no tram links, no improvements to train links and buses will only add to the congestion.

D - I live in Reddish, I manage to get from the centre of town, walk to my car park (about 10 minutes), and drive my car the length of Hyde Road to Debdale Park and then into North Reddish in about 35 to 40 minutes. It was NOT taking an hour to drive 3 miles as it was taking me a lot less than that to drive 5 miles down the SAME ROAD.

E - Why should you and I have to take the hit in the pocket to fix this? Why shouldn't the peole using the buses, trams and traisn take the hit? They will benefit from the improvements so why should they get them for free?
 
Matty said:
goatfood said:
I am voting yes - I live on one of the major routes into Manchester (A57 Hyde Road) and I have watched for 5 years as the congestion has got worse. I travel away from Manchester towards the M60 for work. Most mornings the traffic is backed up to Debdale Park - about 4 miles.

Eight months ago I was working in the City centre and it was taking an hour to travel 3 miles out of town. The traffic is normally backed up from the M60 all the way into Manchester.

Like it or not we have to do something about this and if I have to take a hit in the pocket to sort out the mess Thatcher has left us with (1980 Transport Act - deregulating public transport has caused all this) then I am prepared to do so. We have to put money into public transport. Yes I have my doubt's about trusting the Government, but I don't want to be part of a generation that sat on their fat backsides and did nothing.
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You are awarea that:-

A - The traffic travelling AWAY from Manchester won't drop as they won't have top pay in the mornings, so the charge won't help you at all in that respect.

B - The increased congestion in the Hyde Road area is NOTHING to do with extra traffic and everything to do with Council interference. The bus lane near the bus depot, the right turn section heading out of town at the same spot. The new sets of traffic lights at Belle Vue and then at the new Tescos. All of these have been sanctioned by Manchester Council. The car driver is not at fault for these.

C - There will be limited improvements in the Gorton and Reddish area, the proposals show no tram links, no improvements to train links and buses will only add to the congestion.

D - I live in Reddish, I manage to get from the centre of town, walk to my car park (about 10 minutes), and drive my car the length of Hyde Road to Debdale Park and then into North Reddish in about 35 to 40 minutes. It was NOT taking an hour to drive 3 miles as it was taking me a lot less than that to drive 5 miles down the SAME ROAD.

E - Why should you and I have to take the hit in the pocket to fix this? Why shouldn't the peole using the buses, trams and traisn take the hit? They will benefit from the improvements so why should they get them for free?
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A - The traffic I was talking about being backed up to Debdale park in a morning is in the direction going towards the city centre not away from. I drive passed all the single people sat in a car - wondering why no-one car shares - they may start to if they have to pay.

B - There has been congestion along Hyde Road before the changes you have mentioned - all of which have taken place in the last 18 months.

C - I am not bothered if I my area doesn't see immediate improvements - I usually go for what I think is best for the majority of people.

D - I used to travel on the bus, I finished work at 17.00 and used to get home between 18.00 and 18.15. - not by car you see i have this stupid idea that where buses are a suitable alternative for the time and journey I am making I will use them. But due to money grabbing privatised "public" transport only running financially viable routes, that is not an option at my new place of work.

E - The prices on public transport are already too high in this country - due to them being privatised. If they were Government run - as in many European countries we proabably would not be having this debate. Unfortuantly we now have to pay for the mess Thatcher has left us with.
 
goatfood said:
A - The traffic I was talking about being backed up to Debdale park in a morning is in the direction going towards the city centre not away from. I drive passed all the single people sat in a car - wondering why no-one car shares - they may start to if they have to pay.
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As I live in Reddish I actually drive towards Manchester in the morning. The traffic congestion you speak of is as a direct result of the bus lane near the bus depot. When this section of the dual carriageway actually used to be DUAL the traffic flowed much better, now everyone has to cram into one lane causing two lanes of queues as they try and do so. Still, I manage to head into Manchester from Reddish and it only takes me at most 45 minutes (so slightly longer than the evenings).
goatfood said:
B - There has been congestion along Hyde Road before the changes you have mentioned - all of which have taken place in the last 18 months.
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The bus lane has been there for a good 3 to 3 years now. The rest I'll agree has been in the last 18 months. The congestion has always been there, althuogh nowhere near the levels that have been created by the traffic 'changes'.
goatfood said:
C - I am not bothered if I my area doesn't see immediate improvements - I usually go for what I think is best for the majority of people.
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Are you aware that approx 50% of the proposed investment will go towards just 18 miles of new tram lines? I wouldn't have thought the majority will ever benefit from that! If there are no immediate improvements where will the funding coem from for subsequent improvements? This is a 'one off' investment from the government, and the congestion charge won't be anywhere near enough to cover any meaningful changes.
goatfood said:
D - I used to travel on the bus, I finished work at 17.00 and used to get home between 18.00 and 18.15. - not by car you see i have this stupid idea that where buses are a suitable alternative for the time and journey I am making I will use them. But due to money grabbing privatised "public" transport only running financially viable routes, that is not an option at my new place of work.
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But I would suggest that buses AREN'T a suitable alternative, not if they take up to twice as long to make the journey. More buses on the roads, which is the only way bus 'improvements' can be made ('better' buses will improve f*ck all apart from comfort, until some scrote vandalises them) will simply slow down the commute as they clog up the roads even more with their constant stopping ans starting.
goatfood said:
E - The prices on public transport are already too high in this country - due to them being privatised. If they were Government run - as in many European countries we probably would not be having this debate. Unfortuantly we now have to pay for the mess Thatcher has left us with.
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I'm not arguing that public transport is poor, and probably expensive, I've no doubt it is. However there's a reason I chose not to use it, unreliability, poor service, convenience, speed, cost, these are all factors. Why should I prop up a privately owned business that's service is so bad I've chosen not to use it?
 
I am awaiting my ballot papers, got 3 people in my hosue that can vote.

ALL NO
 
It's a definite no from me, i can get a tram or train from eccles if i want to use public transport already and they are both reasonably quick and cheap. There's plenty of buses as well which do take a while to be fair; but there are regular services into town. Plus it only takes about half an hour to get into town from eccles if im going by car so i can't see a benefit to me of paying a congestion charge.
 
I am in favour of it in theory and, even though I am a driver, think that the biggest load of wankers in the country are those who constantly bleat about people 'being against the motorist' and 'tax against the motorist'.

They are almost always complete and utter tossers who pleasure themselves in front of a poster of Clarkson.

Anything that improves the congestion problem and improves public transport and the general grimey environment in some parts of Manchester is good in my book.

However, this is what I can't have about this.

There is a massive discrepency as to who will benefit from this.

Take most areas in North Manchester. There are some of the poorest areas around in that direction.

The public transport, in comparison to that in South Manchester is, having experienced both, an bsolute disgrace. It is infrequent, often dirty and the only option available to most is a very patchy bus service. No real tram or train options for most areas and main roads that are narrow and unsuitable for the number of people being carried on them.

When there are rod problems they drg on for weeks, often with no-one working on them when you pass them regrdless of what time of the day it is. Then they reoccur in the same place a month or two after.

Yet, I pass roadworks in the south of the city and they seem to be treated as a priority and cleared an awful lot quicker.

This is despite the south having something like 5 times as many buses on each route and public trqansport being a much more viable option in the south.

The proposed improvement will make absolutely no improvement for a huge swath of people in many areas of Manchester, especially North Manchester. There will be a tram extension to Rochdale but that will only benefit a tiny amount of people on that route. Plus, if it's anything like the current Bury tram, it will be woefully overcrowded and inadequate in rush hour.

The only possible benefit for most will be a slightly improved bus service. However, given that is in the hands of private companies, who charge ridiculous prices as it is, I doubt thart this will be anything like a particularly efficient or cost effective matter. Even if it were, they cn't widen the roads, due to existing building, so they will still be jammed.

(By the way, take a look at the price of bus trips in south manchester compared to the north. It is a scandal. It doesn't really affect me but I cannot vote yes with a clear conscience whilst I feel that, yet again, people who live in certain areas, especially North Manchester, are going to be short changed in favour of improvements that benefit other areas that are already massively favoured by the transport system.)
 
Definitely NO. If this gets through, we'll be paying
to use the M60 and so on and so on.
It's only the beginning.
 
1st naivety to overcome in terms of government is to realise that if you give them an inch they will take a fucking shitload of miles.

When the income tax came to be it was only for the ultra wealthy. Now everyone works over a third of the year for government...
 
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