Coronation of King Charles 3rd

[hilts]

I read your point first time around thanks.

If you actually read my initial comment I was referring to voting in referendums which tend to involve policies or a movement which is complex and uncertain (eg Scottish Independence, Leaving the EU etc). I made an observation that it's worrying people are able to vote in such referendums when they judge a "leader" based on appearance rather than basing their judgement on rationale. I haven't anywhere mentioned that stupid people shouldn't vote in GEs. You've completely misunderstood and twisted what I've said, now who looks daft as a brush?

I find it bizarre when posters go out of their way to abuse others on this forum especially when unprovoked. I often think they're just trying to compensate for having a sad life.

As per pm I was way too harsh, my apologies.

 

[Magicpole]

Yes, I suppose it‘s far more likely to die a death of a thousand cuts rather than any particular single event. It will be forced to evolve to the point of irrelevance is the most likely outcome. I said at the time the passing of QE2 marked a seminal moment for the country and the monarchy, and as much as I enjoyed yesterday’s spectacle, I couldn’t escape from the notion that the event was as anachronistic and farcical, as it was spectacular and historic.

I think the fundamental issue for me is that this country has been held back in recent years by the institutions that once made it great. That a lack of change in those institutions has caused the country to ossify, and limit social mobility and necessary change, and the only way to properly address that is to rip those institutions down and start again. if I’m including our electoral and political systems in that equation, then it’s hard to argue against an institution that is founded upon hereditary entitlement and represents the antithesis to change.

I think in other times, such as WW2, the monarchy has provided stability, continuity and moderation when we have needed it, but that isn’t the case anymore.

The whole system is rotten and needs to be rebuilt, and for me, the monarchy needs to be part of that process.

During WW2 the abdicated King was a Nazi spy and had he not been a Royal, would have been shot as a traitor. His punishment, being appointed Governor of Barbados. That alone shows how fucked up the country is when you can betray your country and get away with it. Mosley, another Toff, should also have been executed, but, he wasn’t. I can’t think why, oh that’s it, he was a Toff.

They shot soldiers who fought bravely but mentally collapsed, yet that Nazi bastard ex King, gets a big house, a top job an unlimited purse paid for by the people. He wasn’t the only member of the aristocracy who had Nazi sympathies. But, if you come from the core of the establishment, you are protected. If they want to continue with the pomp, let them pay for it. Their weddings, funerals, coronations are paid for by us. Not a bad deal especially when they have billions. All of it accrued never earned.

 

[Gabriel]

MPs are not experts in their field. Civil servants that support them are.

Is it more the case that not all MPs are, but on occasion they can have a particular educational and/or occupational background that would make them an equal of the civil servant? Of course, there is never any guarantee that the MP will be asked to serve in the area of their expertise.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Like I said, I have no problem with people celebrating things Royal like yesterday. It's just my opinions on Royalty and entitlement are different than yours. I simply don't believe in these things. Just like you don't believe in God.

I’m not sure City fans in the main have bought into it, I just don’t think most City fans and Mancunians in the main have an inferiority complex and a chip on their shoulder (I’m not saying you have, I’m thinking more about the contrast in the Liverpool fans’ reaction to GSTK compared to ours).

The King doesn’t make me feel subservient, and I know I’m not. I’m never going to meet him and my life would be no different whether the Royal Family existed or not.

Everyone is born equally. Just because someone has inherited titles and loads of land and property, doesn’t make them of a higher standing than anyone else. Just like mega rich entertainers like Adele or Haaland aren’t. I’d rather have my life than the King’s because my life is better than his. The Royal Family’s life seems like it would be fucking awful, a right royal pain in the arse. They’re like zoo animals for tourists to gawp at. I couldn’t think of anything worse. But they’re living history and a really good tourist attraction so if they want to be the zoo animals they are then more fool them but, fuck it, let’s keep them because I’m sure yesterday brought in many times more in tourism money than it cost to put the show on.

Yeah, people are moaning about the coronation being paid for by the people, but the UK tax revenue was £873b last year and the coronation cost just £100m so just 0.012% of last year’s tax revenue on something that most people enjoyed or at least were okay with or watched as a bit of novelty or for some history. And nobody’s telling me we didn’t bring in well over £100m in tourism money around the event!

There’s no such thing as God and I don’t really care either way about the King. I never think about the Royal Family unless they pop up in a thread on this forum. I had a bit of the Coronation on yesterday but was flicking between that and the rugby and getting ready to go to the game and missed most of it apart from the crowning. Yet I, and pretty much everyone around me (including two blokes to my right who missed the whole thing because they were at the pub and pissed up), sang GSTK at the game yesterday. But that’s just because we aren’t twats who are bitter because of an inferiority complex and a chip on our shoulder… and then we’ll probably not think about the King again unless we go to London for a bit of sightseeing in about five years’ time. Whereas the bitters will still be moaning about them from week-to-week despite their lives not being affected by them in any way because their complexes won’t allow them not to.

Lads, I’m Irish, but I like to believe
I have a more objective view of this subject than you might expect of us Paddies.

I can actually relate to both of your posts and points of view.
I find it quite interesting and depressing, the divisions that this causes amongst the UK population alone and the contradictions that arise between tradition and modernising your society, that can be seen externally quite easily, but for some reason, for some of you, you find it an affront to the Great in Great Britain if we point it out to you.

We have an elected Leprechaun as our president, but we love him and are proud of his representation of Ireland abroad. He is a cultured man, he knows his constitutional role, and he performs his duties well without controversy.
We have a national anthem that’s sung in Irish and I guarantee you most people singing it, don’t understand the words and probably lip synch until the rousing last two lines that lift the roof.
But we all sing it regardless with passion as it represents our nation.
Look at the rugby anthem, Ireland’s Call, which was introduced to cover all 32 counties.

I would think that regardless of your views on a monarchy in this day and age, as things stand he is your head of state and the national anthem whether it needs changing or not, is still your national anthem.
I personally don’t understand parts of England booing it. Campaign to have it changed if you must, along with your electoral system and then maybe look for a written constitution etc etc.

I like most of Ireland am not a royalist. I’m not anti-monarchy as such, if you want it knock yourselves out, but personally I look at your monarchy’s history in this country and know exactly why we were right to want no part of it.
Without dwelling on history as I prefer to look to the future and the maintenance of good relations with you, our neighbours, friends and family, but there is an irony in what might have been in this country, had your monarchy not started/ introduced what was a sectarian politico-religious war (it was all over Europe) into Ireland.

In Every other invasion of Ireland up until Elizabeth 1st, the invaders assimilated into the local population. The Vikings, The Normans. It’s often written that they became more Irish than the Irish themselves.
That stopped, I would say, from Elizabeth onwards and sowed the seeds to what we have now.

And here is the real irony. Consistently from that time on until the 19th century, amongst the Irish aristocracy, the Old English, namely those of Norman descent, were still loyal to the crown and remained so. It was the English self serving parliament that was despised and the fact that the monarchy consistently backed parliament in not granting Ireland a Dublin government despite a majority of the country wanting it all the way into the 20th century, is the reason we had what we had in this century.

I’ve left loads of stuff out of course which rankles with Irish people in our history, but has no relevance to the argument I’m making for or against Monarchy.

I’m not for it in this day and age.
But it is what you have. Regardless of your views, he is your head of state. It is your national anthem.
I think that should be respected even if you want it replaced.
It’s complex I know, how do you go about that when the institutionalised power system is part of the problem?

Well from the outside looking in, that’s your mess to sort out. It took us centuries.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

During WW2 the abdicated King was a Nazi spy and had he not been a Royal, would have been shot as a traitor. His punishment, being appointed Governor of Barbados. That alone shows how fucked up the country is when you can betray your country and get away with it. Mosley, another Toff, should also have been executed, but, he wasn’t. I can’t think why, oh that’s it, he was a Toff.

They shot soldiers who fought bravely but mentally collapsed, yet that Nazi bastard ex King, gets a big house, a top job an unlimited purse paid for by the people. He wasn’t the only member of the aristocracy who had Nazi sympathies. But, if you come from the core of the establishment, you are protected. If they want to continue with the pomp, let them pay for it. Their weddings, funerals, coronations are paid for by us. Not a bad deal especially when they have billions. All of it accrued never earned.

What’s the answer?
Republic of Scotland?

 

[oldius]

It sells papers and it sells a version of the UK that will attract some tourism, but I can't help but cringe at the irrelevance of it, and the obscenity of it. A King and Queen should at least be respected, surely, but these two have definitely not earned that, and the attempts by the media to convince us otherwise are, to me, wholly embarrassing.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Looks like decent powder

At least he didn't drive there I suppose...

 

[meltonblue]

Is it more the case that not all MPs are, but on occasion they can have a particular educational and/or occupational background that would make them an equal of the civil servant? Of course, there is never any guarantee that the MP will be asked to serve in the area of their expertise.

Yes but very very rarely and even then their political opinion is more at the forefront than their expertise in that area.

 

[Magicpole]

What’s the answer?
Republic of Scotland?

I was never in favour of Indy, as I saw us as standing with other working class communities across the country. That sadly changed when the south of England’s working class kept voting Tory. Turkeys voting for Christmas was never a thing for me. So yes, having none of the feudal bowing and scraping but most of all, no fucking Tories running anything. As a country we haven’t voted for those scum in a majority for nearly 80 years. Why can we see how much of a shower of vermin they are and they can’t? Blows my mind and for me it’s down to them buying the right wing shite and if they add in waving a flag, they follow it regardless of how it fucks them.

 

[Koniec]

What’s the answer?
Republic of Scotland?

Yup, I’d think most supporters of Indy (don’t assume that’s equated with support of the SNP) are supporters of a Republic.

If the royals are self sufficient, make them prove it. All their costs and overheads should be funded by their own cash. And tax them too. Make jug ears pay inheritance tax.

 

[meltonblue]

It sells papers and it sells a version of the UK that will attract some tourism, but I can't help but cringe at the irrelevance of it, and the obscenity of it. A King and Queen should at least be respected, surely, but these two have definitely not earned that, and the attempts by the media to convince us otherwise are, to me, wholly embarrassing.

The whole thing is a wilful collective suspension of reality in all honesty, I’m not sure many people actually believe in it. Always seen it more as a real version of the Truman Show.

Harry as an example and the ridiculous furore around him, it actually makes him an absolutely perfect member of the royal family.

 

[bluenova]

I was never in favour of Indy, as I saw us as standing with other working class communities across the country. That sadly changed when the south of England’s working class kept voting Tory. Turkeys voting for Christmas was never a thing for me. So yes, having none of the feudal bowing and scraping but most of all, no fucking Tories running anything. As a country we haven’t voted for those scum in a majority for nearly 80 years. Why can we see how much of a shower of vermin they are and they can’t? Blows my mind and for me it’s down to them buying the right wing shite and if they add in waving a flag, they follow it regardless of how it fucks them.

I have some sympathy with your view - but t's a little offensive to talk about "we" and "they" as if everyone working class in the English south voted Tory and no-one in Scotland ever did.

Clearly more people vote Tory in England, but Theresa May got nearly 27% of the vote in Scotland, and Boris got over 25% - and that's in an environment where the biggest party is nationalist. Even with the more positive view of nationalism the SNP espouse, it's still going to be attractive to the kind of working class people, who in England would drift towards the Tories.

 

[Magicpole]

I have some sympathy with your view - but t's a little offensive to talk about "we" and "they" as if everyone working class in the English south voted Tory and no-one in Scotland ever did.

Clearly more people vote Tory in England, but Theresa May got nearly 27% of the vote in Scotland, and Boris got over 25% - and that's in an environment where the biggest party is nationalist. Even with the more positive view of nationalism the SNP espouse, it's still going to be attractive to the kind of working class people, who in England would drift towards the Tories.

25% in England would mean they are never in power. The other reason their vote has gone up is nothing to do with how they perform, it’s about the perception that the Monarchy is staunchly Protestant, so a number ofworking class Protestant voters now vote Tory as a way of stopping Indy and keeping those Royals who they love more than anything else. Which by the way they have every right to do. But, they still can’t get past 27% as more Protestant voters still vote against the Tories. Which annoys the fuck out of the monarchists.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I think it's like the political thread because the monarchy is imo increasingly seen as a political issue for two reasons.

Firstly, they have been dragged, like a variety of other things, into a faux culture war that is being used to distract from other government activities.

Secondly, we have a government that has been deliberately pursuing policies that increase rather than reduce inequality, particularly economic inequality. The royal family represent many things but one of them is inequality. When times are good people are less concerned about this and focus on their ceremonial aspects. However as equality gaps are widening the royals have become a lightening rod, as they 'represent' how rigged the system is against ordinary people.

Ultimately we are ever more disunited because we've voted in people who use disunity and inequality as political weapons.

I think what you are describing is something I was alluding to earlier in my brief history lesson.
I’m glad I left it to one of yourselves to say.
What you are describing is what happened on Ireland centuries ago, only worse. You didn’t endure the Penal Laws (yet). They were totally sectarian as is the monarchy to this day.

I think you are right regarding the disunity and the logical destination if your current governance is maintained may be the further dissolution of the Union.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

You’d be surprised just how insignificant to the general population the trend of political threads on here and political talk on social media is.

These factions who are always arguing online or on news channels just aren’t noticeable in the real world. In general, we all get along really well and all the weirdos who are bang into their ‘gammon’ and ‘snowflake’ talk are just peripheral idiots that nobody takes a blind bit of notice of.

Glad to hear it.

 

[PragueBlue]

You’d be surprised just how insignificant to the general population the trend of political threads on here and political talk on social media is.

These factions who are always arguing online or on news channels just aren’t noticeable in the real world. In general, we all get along really well and all the weirdos who are bang into their ‘gammon’ and ‘snowflake’ talk are just peripheral idiots that nobody takes a blind bit of notice of.

Spot on.

 

[bluealf]

blah blah fucking blah

Celtic fan moaning about the head of the Church of England.

What a shock.

Do you not get bored typing the same shit all morning?

 

[Bill Walker]

20 million women watched it.

:)

 

[mexico1970]

Celtic fan moaning about the head of the Church of England.

What a shock.

Do you not get bored typing the same shit all morning?

He prefers a woman in a Racoon wig who buried shit in her back garden.

 

[Magicpole]

Celtic fan moaning about the head of the Church of England.

What a shock.

Do you not get bored typing the same shit all morning?

An adulterous man leading a Church that’s book advocates being put to death for it. Why does the team I support have any relevance?

I’m an atheist so I have no issue moaning about a guy who is artificially head of a church because Henry wanted more pussy.

As for what I post? Put me on ignore if it offends you. As if I will give a single fuck.