Coronavirus (2021) thread

[grunge]

Simply put, we don't know enough about the disease nor the vaccine to be sure either way. We do believe however, that relatively few people die of Covid19, as it stands and we also believe that relatively few people die as a direct result of taking the vaccine, but we don't know what will happen in time, certainly we don't know enough to force someone to take a new drug, against their will.

This discussion is getting us nowhere, we'll have to agree to disagree.

I don’t think anyone should be forced to take it either. And Granted mRNA vaccines are new tech but all the others are not, even then MRNA treatments have been in trials for over a decade as a cancer treatment so there is at least 10 years of data there.

AZ etc are using vaccine tech that has been used for years. There’s tons of data we know.

the whole concept of “we don’t know” isn’t quite right and can be applied to literally anything you want. Every medication known to man started somewhere and nothing ever has trials that last for decades intentionally.

May dad is part of a cholesterol reduction trail that is 5 years. But that is only because it takes that long to see results properly.

at what point will you be happy it’s ok? 5 years? 10? 50?

 

[Octavian]

Whilst I agree it is a person's choice to have or not have a vaccine. Someone who doesn't have it during a pandemic must accept that restrictions will have to apply to their lives till at least the end of the pandemic. Working in heath and care facilities for example.
The fact that most have also refused to ware masks when mandated says it all about their selfish nature.
Bottom line: The "Right to life" trumps the "Right to infect anyone I meet"

Working in the NHS or private hospitals or care, yes I 100% agree that in a pandemic these organisations would be stupid not to enforce a “you either get vaxxed or you don’t work here” policy. But I am talking about going to shops, pubs and day to day ordinary life. I don’t think the government should stop the unvaccinated from what the rest of us do, even if they are wankers.

 

[Manchester33]

Will that principle be applied to smokers, fat bastards with heart problems etc?

I'm triple jabbed by the way.

To be honest, anyone who's still smoking in 2021 needs sectioning. I have more sympathy for OAPs who got hooked on it decades ago, but I see people in their early 20s picking up the habit now, honestly, how stupid can you be? If I see anyone under the age of about 30 smoking I make the immediate assumption that they're as thick as mince.

But each of your examples is disingenuous because there isn't a vaccine (that's proven to be incredibly safe and effective) that cures addiction or obesity. If there was and they refused to take it, then yes, they should pay.

 

[Manchester33]

Working in the NHS or private hospitals or care, yes I 100% agree that in a pandemic these organisations would be stupid not to enforce a “you either get vaxxed or you don’t work here” policy. But I am talking about going to shops, pubs and day to day ordinary life. I don’t think the government should stop the unvaccinated from what the rest of us do, even if they are wankers.

I agree with this. But I also think they need to give businesses the freedom to decide their own clientele - so if a pub wants to admit vaccinated people only, they should be allowed to do that without legal recourse from the anti-vax mob.

That is obviously based on the assumption that being vaccinated reduces transmission. If the science proves that false then I'll concede that it's a pointless exercise.

 

[Octavian]

I agree with this. But I also think they need to give businesses the freedom to decide their own clientele - so if a pub wants to admit vaccinated people only, they should be allowed to do that without legal recourse from the anti-vax mob.

That is obviously based on the assumption that being vaccinated reduces transmission. If the science proves that false then I'll concede that it's a pointless exercise.

This opens up a whole other can of worms of debate that will maybe take the thread away from Covid if I start to express my opinion. Businesses choosing their clientele and having total freedom to do so is an interesting topic and one in which I am undecided in many ways.

Sticking to Covid, I would be comfortable with a shop stating that unless you can show you’re vaccinated you must wear a mask inside. I think that’s a healthy compromise. My fear is that draconian measures against the unvaccinated feeds the anti-vaccination movement and may make things worse, with the number of idiots growing.

 

[Manchester33]

This opens up a whole other can of worms of debate that will maybe take the thread away from Covid if I start to express my opinion. Businesses choosing their clientele and having total freedom to do so is an interesting topic and one in which I am undecided in many ways.

Sticking to Covid, I would be comfortable with a shop stating that unless you can show you’re vaccinated you must wear a mask inside. I think that’s a healthy compromise. My fear is that draconian measures against the unvaccinated feeds the anti-vaccination movement and may make things worse, with the number of idiots growing.

Fair points, I agree with them. You're right, the debate probably leads us down a path that's off-topic. It is interesting though.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Working in the NHS or private hospitals or care, yes I 100% agree that in a pandemic these organisations would be stupid not to enforce a “you either get vaxxed or you don’t work here” policy. But I am talking about going to shops, pubs and day to day ordinary life. I don’t think the government should stop the unvaccinated from what the rest of us do, even if they are wankers.

Well the UK has lifted restrictions for the most part so that doesn't really apply. If they hadn't I'd still be following them.
However there are places (e.g.Tube, restaurants etc) where organisations apply restrictions and I believe you have to follow restrictions in those places. Its rude not to. Public transport is pretty much a must.
That said I've gone out of my way to catch everything going from the start of July after I caught Covid again (just sniffles this time) as I believe our immune systems have been compromised by lockdown and restrictions. Getting Covid in July and about 6 coughs and colds since has got me back to peak operating efficiency.
Catching stuff in winter is far, far worse than catching it in summer. The chance of pneumonia and secondary infections is much higher in winter.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

Tested positive. I was absolutely convinced it was a cold. Feeling fine but pissed off about isolating until the 30th.
I guess the big bonus is that by being double whacked it's spared me from a bout of anything more serious.

 

[blueinsa]

Tested positive. I was absolutely convinced it was a cold. Feeling fine but pissed off about isolating until the 30th.
I guess the big bonus is that by being double whacked it's spared me from a bout of anything more serious.

Get well soon mate

 

[paulchapo]

You have nowhere near as much chance of catching and spreading Covid if you’re vaccinated. You can still catch and spread it, but you’re 50-75% less likely to catch it and spread it than an unvaccinated individual. And where the Delta variant is newer than the vaccines (which were developed for the Alpha and Beta variants) and shows greater vaccine breakthrough, the boosters are geared towards this (as future boosters will be for future variants)… as well as the importance of mask wearing at times of spikes.

And lockdowns aren’t about people feeling safe, they're about the NHS - whether the NHS can cope with the amount of patients they are treating, how much the Covid patients numbers are impacting other aspects of the NHS, and if too many people are dying of Covid (and as a result of being denied treatment because of Covid).

For example, say a hospital has 75 ICU beds and 125 Covid patients require an ICU bed, then the hospital has to take space where other aspects of the NHS works to host them. This means other areas of medical treatment are being pushed back… introduce restrictions or lockdowns which mean there’s a smaller spread and number requiring hospitalisation of Covid and you allow the NHS to work more efficiently and effectively.

People have said Covid will be with us forever now so there will be some Winters where we have to introduce some minor restrictions (mandatory mask wearing), there will be some Winters where tighter restrictions may need to come in (no crowds at gigs and footy, work from home) and some Winters where we have to go into lockdown… but there will also be many Winters where we don’t have to introduce anything and we can have a normal year. I don’t think Covid will be with us forever though and we will get enough herd immunity throughout the world through vaccinations and prevention that we eventually get rid of it from being a widespread virus that cripples health services and the economy. Therefore, tackle it now and early, and we’ll be better off in the long run.

We’ve been living through this for long enough now to understand this, surely?

Of course I understand the majority of it yes. As for the NHS as far back as I can remember every winter there has been reports of it being on the verge of being overwhelmed due to winter viruses, but no mention of lockdowns etcetera. Yes I know this is a worse situation but closing down society, particularly with the vaccines and other new treatments in the pipeline has to end. For the vast cost locking down the country has and will continue to wreak surely that money could be put into the health service to ensure it can cope? I know that won't be an easy task but it should be a top priority now.