Coronavirus (2021) thread

[west didsblue]

I suggest you drop this. It makes you sound like a nutter.



I am not interested in a discussion where your argument relies, in one instance on the official figures, but equally insists on the other hand that those same figures are "lies".



Ah, so your bottom line is that COVID and flu are equivalent? (It's hard to understand from such a rambling paragraph).

This is wrong. Flu is not "just as infectious" as COVID. It is both less transmissible, and less deadly. Figures are readily available for Ro (transmissibility) and IFR (Infection fatality rate)

Here is a comparison of published data for IFR:

View attachment 13439


And here is a comparison of Ro for different viruses (it's from July last year and current estimates for COVID are a little bit higher.

View attachment 13440

COVID-19 Compared to Other Pandemic Diseases - PMC

In December 2019, the first cases of a new contagious disease were diagnosed in the city of Wuhan, the capital of Hubei province in China. Within a short period of time the outbreak developed exponentially into a pandemic that infected millions of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You can note that this is all published scientific research, and involves no propaganda or censorship.

COVID is something like 10x more deadly than flu (age dependent) and maybe twice as transmissible.

Well done for having the patience to respond to a load of rambling contradictory nonsense.

 

[Healdplace]

Wales vaccination update:


1, 427, 183 first doses given - 13, 473 today - was 12, 960 yesterday & 14, 724 last week

437, 937 second doses given - 13, 921 today - was 7154 yesterday & 13, 456 last week

 

[salfordbluetrue]

Lets brush over the fact they entirely refute your argument, shall we?



So why do you keep on quoting them?



Based on official figures regarding the pandemic, and ignoring the fact that pandemic flu and seasonal flu are not the same.

Yes brush over the fact that they were collated in very different ways , and they do not refute my argument,
I quote them as they are they only figures available a base line,
Your right on the difference between seasonal and Pandemic flu are not the same, one had a vaccine before yet still adapted to Kill over 11,000

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Yes brush over the fact that they were collated in very different ways , and they do not refute my argument,
I quote them as they are they only figures available a base line,
Your right on the difference between seasonal and Pandemic flu are not the same, one had a vaccine before yet still adapted to Kill over 11,000

So given that we've shown that flu is ~10x less deadly, and ~2x less transmissible than COVID:

What exactly is your point, @salfordbluetrue ?

'cos I'm bolloxed if I know.

[and you're still relying on official figures when it suits you that you claim are lies when they don't suit you]

 

[twosips]

Employer wants us back in from next week, 2 or 3 days a week. We're a totally digital business, with zero benefit of being in an office, and are thriving away from it, with business booming. Now we'll be clogging up public transport to get there when thousands who need to be going in will be using it. I suspect a lot of businesses will do the same. Some people shouldn't be allowed to run companies.

All seems rushed and totally unnecessary when we should be slowly opening up....

Could all the employees get together, write a letter and ask why? Outline the exact reasons why etc. You can pull statistics, show the company's growth etc. What's the worst that can happen? Can be done relatively anonymously.

 

[East Level 2]

All I know is 594 folks have died after having a jab in the UK out of 34,518,958 jabs or 0.00001731%
..............

Percentages not your strong point? It's 0.001731% but your points still stand as it's pretty much still sod all.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

I suggest you drop this. It makes you sound like a nutter.



I am not interested in a discussion where your argument relies, in one instance on the official figures, but equally insists on the other hand that those same figures are "lies".



Ah, so your bottom line is that COVID and flu are equivalent? (It's hard to understand from such a rambling paragraph).

This is wrong. Flu is not "just as infectious" as COVID. It is both less transmissible, and less deadly. Figures are readily available for Ro (transmissibility) and IFR (Infection fatality rate)

Here is a comparison of published data for IFR:

View attachment 13439


And here is a comparison of Ro for different viruses (it's from July last year and current estimates for COVID are a little bit higher.

View attachment 13440

COVID-19 Compared to Other Pandemic Diseases - PMC

In December 2019, the first cases of a new contagious disease were diagnosed in the city of Wuhan, the capital of Hubei province in China. Within a short period of time the outbreak developed exponentially into a pandemic that infected millions of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You can note that this is all published scientific research, and involves no propaganda or censorship.

COVID is something like 10x more deadly than flu (age dependent) and maybe twice as transmissible.

MERS must surely be on the radar of the mRNA vaccines going forward as it's not far removed from covid/sars - I wonder how many on that list may are being targeted with this new vaccine technology. I suspect that HIV will be the one that continues to allude the vaccine makers

Hopefully one of the very few benefits of this whole shit show is that new medicinal technologies have had a warp speed green light by the regulators so that we can see what the real live data is now rather than in 10 years time.

 

[BlueAnorak]

So one has to ask why does the UK have 5 CSVT cases and 1 death from around 18m jabs and elsewhere in Europe 32 cases amd 9 deaths from 2.7m jabs? Mainly in Germany and Norway?
OK so in the UK the jab has mainly been given to older people and in Germany it seems to be in health workers, but there are still more than 2 million AZ jabs given to younger hospital workers in the UK and another 5m+ to 50-55 year olds at risk.
Oh and all the UK CSVT cases were in men!
One of the fascinating articles I found on it..

AAAS

blogs.sciencemag.org

What gives?

 

[roubaixtuesday]

MERS must surely be on the radar of the mRNA vaccines going forward as it's not far removed from covid/sars - I wonder how many on that list may are being targeted with this new vaccine technology. I suspect that HIV will be the one that continues to allude the vaccine makers

Hopefully one of the very few benefits of this whole shit show is that new medicinal technologies have had a warp speed green light by the regulators so that we can see what the real live data is now rather than in 10 years time.

I think the Oxford vaccine platform was/is in clinical trials for MERS - problem being that the incidence is so low it's near impossible to test.

DEFINE_ME

 

[BlueAnorak]

Percentages not your strong point? It's 0.001731% but your points still stand as it's pretty much still sod all.

No using a calculator isn't my strong point. I'm very good and maths and stats though

 

[salfordbluetrue]

So given that we've shown that flu is ~10x less deadly, and ~2x less transmissible than COVID:

What exactly is your point, @salfordbluetrue ?

'cos I'm bolloxed if I know.

[and you're still relying on official figures when it suits you that you claim are lies when they don't suit you]

There are no other figures to use as a base line, Covid is 10x more deadly because of the Flu jab Covid is more transmutable because of the way the figures were collated ,
My point was and is that those who are at risk should have the Covid jab, but those that are not should not, for the same reason we do not Vaccinate the entire country for the Flu,
The government should not threaten to take away freedoms, in the shape of Covid passports to convince people to take the Covid jab.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

Percentages not your strong point? It's 0.001731% but your points still stand as it's pretty much still sod all.

it's still not good, though. Whether there are particular rare anomalies in these cases or just bad luck, or poor practices (given it within 28 days of a infection) we need full transparency on it.

 

[blueparrot]

The government should not threaten to take away freedoms, in the shape of Covid passports to convince people to take the Covid jab.

The government haven't. Some countries, airlines businesses however may decide to, so as this will happen who will issue the passport and as they may be needed shouldn't everyone be offered the vaccine.
Especially as some with none of the 'at risk' conditions have and will die without the vaccine.they shoulld at the very least be offered it.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

https://www.flumistquadrivalent.com/

Where do you get the idea that they haven't made vaccines before from?

On your second point about partnered facilities, this is largely the business model for all big pharma. At a certain point it's not economical to run your own plants when you have a portfolio of >20 products. It's a situation driven by competition as these manufacturers WANT to make your product for cheaper than you can make because it affords them the option to make generics when the patent expires. Often these manufacturers make products at cost or just below knowing they are gaining valuable learning and capability from it. Generics are where they make their money.

Fair points, but AZ are not traditionally vaccinemakers to my understanding - anything they have has been bought with bought companies. As such, I wouldn't have thought that they have the 3rd party network for megascale production.

My point wasn't very well made - I'm not really sure what AZ are bringing to this now, assuming the governmental support is funding the production sites. They aren't using AZ facilities that much - as with others, like the Catalent site in Italy (?) being used by someone or other - there are only so many 3rd parties available with expertise to make vaccines. Creating capacity and scaling it up is not easy.

I thought it was an obvious move when Sanofi agreed to make the Pfizer one (I think it's that one), after the Sanofi/Merck prospect collapsed. I think Merck are going to make one too, not sure which one offhand.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Covid is 10x more deadly because of the Flu jab

Clearly false.

The flu jab is typically 50% effective or some years less. The flu jab is not universally administered. You cannot explain a tenfold difference in fatality through flu vaccinating.

Flu vaccine effectiveness in 2017 to 2018 season

Public Health England has published flu vaccine effectiveness data for the 2017 to 2018 season.

www.gov.uk

point was and is that those who are at risk should have the Covid jab, but those that are not should not, for the same reason we do not Vaccinate the entire country for the Flu

Well, if that's your point, why didn't you say so!

The differences are:

1. COVID is sufficiently transmissible that unless we vaccinate most people, it is likely we will get a further significant wave of disease.

2. The number of unvaccinated, plus those who vaccinating does not protect are such that wave would likely be of similar size to those just passed.

3. Everyone is at risk from COVID; long COVID symptoms are real and severe.

4. The flu vaccine is nowhere near as effective as the COVID vaccines are.

 

[Healdplace]

Scotland data:

6 deaths - was 3 last week

542 cases - was 692 last week

2.1% positivity - was 3.1% last week

237 patients - down 13 on yesterday - was 321 last week

21 ventilated - down 2 on yesterday - was 31 last week

Deaths up a bit but other numbers doing better and wk to wk hospital numbers down almost a third is the best news.

 

[BlueAnorak]

I know its the mail but it's actually a good article.

European suspension of AstraZeneca vaccine WILL cause Covid deaths

The European Medicines Agency (EMA) said the benefits of protecting against Covid far outweighed the risk of the extremely rare brain clots.

mol.im

- with the exception of the number of AZ vaccine jabs administered that only goes back to early March. The numbers have now overtaken the Pfizer Jab.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

Scotland data:

6 deaths - was 3 last week

542 cases - was 692 last week

2.1% positivity - was 3.1% last week

237 patients - down 13 on yesterday - was 321 last week

21 ventilated - down 2 on yesterday - was 31 last week

Deaths up a bit but other numbers doing better and wk to wk hospiutal numbers down almost a third is the best news.

That test positivity is extremely encouraging.

 

[Healdplace]

England hospital deaths yet more great news

Just 31 with 8 from North West (always high here with the weekend catch up after under reporting)

Last week was 69 - also with 8 from NW - so NW today is double last week at nearly a quarter and the highest region. But 8 is 8 even so. And % gets magnified at these low numbers.

Wednesday was always the second highest day of the week and we had over 1000 in January. Long way down from there.

Oh and only 29 in the last month and 1 of 31 came from a year ago - 3 April 2020!

 

[BlueHammer85]

Employer wants us back in from next week, 2 or 3 days a week. We're a totally digital business, with zero benefit of being in an office, and are thriving away from it, with business booming. Now we'll be clogging up public transport to get there when thousands who need to be going in will be using it. I suspect a lot of businesses will do the same. Some people shouldn't be allowed to run companies.

All seems rushed and totally unnecessary when we should be slowly opening up....

same for us, London office wants us slowly back from 20th next month and go back to pre Covid attendance

It's causing quite a divide in the work place