Coronavirus (2021) thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
SWP's back said:
Hell of a stretch that to say that binning off the selfish anti-vax fuck ends is a slippery slope to privatisation. And fwiw, leftists have been claiming the NHS would be privatised for the past 60 years and despite no socialist government since the 70’s, it’s still yet to happen to cry wolf elsewhere.
Click to expand...
The last 2 years have been predicated on ‘saving the NHS‘. It now has a waiting list that will take years to clear so will be deemed to be ‘failing’. It’s got a workforce that is absolutely knackered and are leaving in droves and you don’t think that makes it ‘ripe for reform’? On a positive note, I see that Johnson is turning an unassailable 2 term (minimum) majority into a losing position much quicker than I’d hoped, so maybe we’re ok for the foreseeable.

As for your ’anti-vax fucks’ rant, you really can’t be serious? If you think that the people in the uk who aren’t vaccinated are all Piers Corbin wannabbees you’re very much mistaken, as I’m sure a man as worldly and knowledgeable as you knows.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
The last 2 years have been predicated on ‘saving the NHS‘. It now has a waiting list that will take years to clear so will be deemed to be ‘failing’. It’s got a workforce that is absolutely knackered and are leaving in droves and you don’t think that makes it ‘ripe for reform’? On a positive note, I see that Johnson is turning an unassailable 2 term (minimum) majority into a losing position much quicker than I’d hoped, so maybe we’re ok for the foreseeable.

As for your ’anti-vax fucks’ rant, you really can’t be serious? If you think that the people in the uk who aren’t vaccinated are all Piers Corbin wannabbees you’re very much mistaken, as I’m sure a man as worldly and knowledgeable as you knows.
Click to expand...
And no point of care service can distinguish between who is anti-vax and who unvaccinated for other reasons. Yet they are all put in the same bin to be denied treatment and allowed to die due to authoritarian ideological fuckwittery.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
As for your ’anti-vax fucks’ rant, you really can’t be serious? If you think that the people in the uk who aren’t vaccinated are all Piers Corbin wannabbees you’re very much mistaken, as I’m sure a man as worldly and knowledgeable as you knows.
Click to expand...
What are they then (excluding the tiny tiny minority that can’t have the vaccine due to medical reasons)?
 
If someone goes into hospital and catches mild covid while in there, do they still let them leave as they normally would to isolate at home or do they keep them in longer?
 
KnaresboroughBlue said:
Thick, selfish or both.
Click to expand...
You've also got the option of looking at it as a trust issue. Many people can be won around on that basis, but it's a lengthy process that it involves listening and respecting people, and remaining open, honest, calm and positive. Then the defences come down, and they'll happily join in. It's a lot easier for us to do 'the other thing'. But that just leaves people feeling like they've been pushed around. There's something in me that knows that the more pushy we get, the more we are signalling that we're not actually in a good position, that we're quashing our own doubts, refusing to let them live and breath because we feel we're under threat. It's a bit of a negative spiral.
 
SWP's back said:
What are they then (excluding the tiny tiny minority that can’t have the vaccine due to medical reasons)?
Click to expand...
It’s a pretty complex series of answers, to be fair and, as with most serious issues, cannot be be solved by saying ‘vaccinated good, not vaccinated bad’.

Generally, the poorer and less well educated you are, the more likely you will be ‘vaccine hesitant‘. That and ethnicity are the major drivers for it. Being Black and being poor (don’t trust vaccines) makes you highly unlikely to take the vaccine, as does being from a South Asian heritage (Pakistan and Bangladesh) and/or identifying as Muslim (far more worried about vaccine side effects).
Another factor is sex, in that women are more likely to be vaccine hesitant and that’s likely wrapped up in worries about fertility and pregnancy.

This follows a historical trend in the UK of lower uptake of pneumococcal, influenza, rotavirus, and shingles vaccines among socioeconomically disadvantaged individuals and ethnic minorities.

Stated causes of low confidence is Covid vaccines are:
  • Socioeconomic and healthcare inequalities and inequities
  • Structural racism and previously unethical research involving some ethnic minority groups
  • Social disadvantages including lower levels of education and poor access to accurate information
  • Lack of effective public health messages or targeted campaigns
  • Barriers to access, including vaccine delivery time, location, and cost related to socioeconomic inequalities and marginalisation

Stated reasons for not taking up the offer of vaccination are:

  • Concerns about long term effects, side effects, and unknown future effects on health
  • Previous side effects to other routine vaccines such as influenza vaccine
  • Low confidence in vaccines, including their importance, safety, and efficacy
  • Lack of trust in the manufacturing and country of production of vaccines, vaccine technology, the pharmaceutical industry, government, and public health bodies
  • Concerns about the speed of development of covid-19 vaccines
  • Concerns about vaccines’ incompatibility with religious beliefs
  • Previously negative experiences of healthcare, including racial discrimination
  • Lower risk and perception of lower risk of covid-19 (especially among younger age groups)
  • Lack of communication from trusted providers and community leaders
  • Practical concerns such as inconvenient vaccine delivery time and location
  • Not offered vaccine because of inaccurate patient contact information
  • Apprehensions surrounding fertility, pregnancy, and breastfeeding
  • Belief in Social Media as a source of news, such as covid-19 not being real, or that vaccines modify DNA
  • Recent covid-19 infection
What I would say though, is that Andrew Wakefield has a lot more to answer for than idiots like Corbin and I hope he struggles to sleep at night (although I very much doubt it).
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
It’s a pretty complex series of answers, to be fair and, as with most serious issues, cannot be be solved by saying ‘vaccinated good, not vaccinated bad’.

Generally, the poorer and less well educated you are, the more likely you will be ‘vaccine hesitant‘. That and ethnicity are the major drivers for it. Being Black and being poor (don’t trust vaccines) makes you highly unlikely to take the vaccine, as does being from a South Asian heritage (Pakistan and Bangladesh) and/or identifying as Muslim (far more worried about vaccine side effects).
Another factor is sex, in that women are more likely to be vaccine hesitant and that’s likely wrapped up in worries about fertility and pregnancy.

This follows a historical trend in the UK of lower uptake of pneumococcal, influenza, rotavirus, and shingles vaccines among socioeconomically disadvantaged individuals and ethnic minorities.

Stated causes of low confidence is Covid vaccines are:
  • Socioeconomic and healthcare inequalities and inequities
  • Structural racism and previously unethical research involving some ethnic minority groups
  • Social disadvantages including lower levels of education and poor access to accurate information
  • Lack of effective public health messages or targeted campaigns
  • Barriers to access, including vaccine delivery time, location, and cost related to socioeconomic inequalities and marginalisation

Stated reasons for not taking up the offer of vaccination are:

  • Concerns about long term effects, side effects, and unknown future effects on health
  • Previous side effects to other routine vaccines such as influenza vaccine
  • Low confidence in vaccines, including their importance, safety, and efficacy
  • Lack of trust in the manufacturing and country of production of vaccines, vaccine technology, the pharmaceutical industry, government, and public health bodies
  • Concerns about the speed of development of covid-19 vaccines
  • Concerns about vaccines’ incompatibility with religious beliefs
  • Previously negative experiences of healthcare, including racial discrimination
  • Lower risk and perception of lower risk of covid-19 (especially among younger age groups)
  • Lack of communication from trusted providers and community leaders
  • Practical concerns such as inconvenient vaccine delivery time and location
  • Not offered vaccine because of inaccurate patient contact information
  • Apprehensions surrounding fertility, pregnancy, and breastfeeding
  • Belief in Social Media as a source of news, such as covid-19 not being real, or that vaccines modify DNA
  • Recent covid-19 infection
What I would say though, is that Andrew Wakefield has a lot more to answer for than idiots like Corbin and I hope he struggles to sleep at night (although I very much doubt it).
Click to expand...
Taking all of that into account are we summarising by saying they are thick selfish cunts?
 
KnaresboroughBlue said:
Thick, selfish or both.
Click to expand...
Met up with an old mate the other day and he was telling me about one of his sons , rabid anti vaccine merchant , told his dad that no way was he being told by anybody what he puts in his body , especially when it’s dangerous . Considering he has a history of drinking heavily , weed and snorting it defies any kind of reasoned conversation . His dad asked him why he doesn’t go for the full house and ignore red traffic lights and seat belts , apparently he stormed out !!
 
Tim of the Oak said:
As opposed to rewarding anti vaxxers who are getting decent people’s NHS operations cancelled and launching attacks on healthcare staff.
Click to expand...
Are we talking about specific anti-social or criminal behaviour? Sanctions!

But god forgive the man who inadvertantly ups the arms race and truly presents the opportunity for people to weaponise vaccine refusal. Far too rich for my blood.

Ignore the wierdos - marginalise them. And at least make some attempt to "Win" the others back, rather than employ political sticks. Anything else is a dangerous game.

I guess this is the limitation of Boris-ism. Boosterism, or focus-group approved stick-du-jour. How do we reckon he got into a losing position in the first place? Because people not up their own arse know instinctively that there's notably more to winning people round than selling your confidence, or reaching for the stick! If you want to be effective - a you have to use all the tools. He is just way too untrustworthy an individual.
 
Octavian said:
The NHS will never refuse to treat someone based on what medicine they’ve taken or not, or how they live their lives, it’s just not going to happen and isn’t really worth discussing much further.
Click to expand...
Sorry but they do all the time. Alcoholics will never get a liver transplant for example. It’s very common for people to be refused treatment until “they lose weight” etc.

granted tho they will never refuse to treat immediate threats to life which is applicable with covid as anyone going into hospital will be acute and in immediate need to help.
 
Last edited:
hammocity said:
I don’t know a single person who is on their own and not lonely. I was a friend of an old guy called Joe a good few years ago, he was in his 70’s when I was in my 40’s. We’d have a pint and a chat about horse racing and football. He had a son who lived in Chester, saw him a couple of times a year and a Daughter he was very proud of as she became a well respected Lawyer in the USA but she never visited. Joe had a best mate, Arthur, they had a beer together, went to as many Racecourses as possible and were almost inseparable. Arthur died, Joe tried to carry on but his heart wasn’t in life anymore and he died a few months later, there was nothing physically wrong with him, I think he died from loneliness.

As I posted previous the Doctor on the Whitehouse/Mortimer fishing show said loneliness is as bad on your health as smoking 15 cigarette a day, we’re not wired to be on our own. I accept there’s people who like their own company (I sometimes don’t have much contact during my working day) but older people who are effectively house bound will no way enjoy or mentally cope with that lifestyle without contact.
Click to expand...
That is the normal for sure. And is an issue that needs addressing as it’s far too common. But there are absolutely people out there who are fine with it. An elderly neighbour of mine growing up lost her husband and had no children. She set her self the mission to read every book in the local library and ended up getting about 3 degrees from the open university before she passed away. While she loved company she also loved her alone time to read and study.

there’s no 100% rule for all.

metal health issues are more common tho where people can be surrounded by friends and family yet still feel intense loneliness.
 
Summerbuzz said:
Are we talking about specific anti-social or criminal behaviour? Sanctions!

But god forgive the man who inadvertantly ups the arms race and truly presents the opportunity for people to weaponise vaccine refusal. Far too rich for my blood.

Ignore the wierdos - marginalise them. And at least make some attempt to "Win" the others back, rather than employ political sticks. Anything else is a dangerous game.

I guess this is the limitation of Boris-ism. Boosterism, or focus-group approved stick-du-jour. How do we reckon he got into a losing position in the first place? Because people not up their own arse know instinctively that there's notably more to winning people round than selling your confidence, or reaching for the stick! If you want to be effective - a you have to use all the tools. He is just way too untrustworthy an individual.
Click to expand...
I was thinking about the extremists rather than the standard dim plebs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top