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COVID-19 — Coronavirus
- Thread starter urban genie
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kaz7
Well-Known Member
Is that really what you got from the whole thing lol3rd line-
kaz7
Well-Known Member
You can't get exact numbers in a pandemic,excess deaths give you a truer picture given that we stopped testing people in early March against the WHO and begging not to stop from italy,this was a fuck up,going our own way we said,we know better than the world's experts we said3rd line-
kaz7
Well-Known Member
Suicidal tactics with a new virus literally nobody in the world has immunity toThe economic debate goes like this... It wouldn’t have been as bad, still bad, but not as bad. We could when saved many jobs and lives by enforcing distancing, keeping the vulnerable covered and allowing the healthy to gradually allow it to flow through, not putting the strain on the Health Service and blocking the spread longer term.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it doesn’t take away that we can say what we should have done.
It’s a key point.Is that really what you got from the whole thing lol
It clearly states excess deaths can be used to measure both direct and indirect causes of deaths to COVID-19.
How many missed cancer appointments? How many missed appointments for other illnesses? How many health issues made worse by no exercise?
As much as I can’t stand this government, it wasn’t a decision to just not test, there’s logistics and costs involved.You can't get exact numbers in a pandemic,excess deaths give you a truer picture given that we stopped testing people in early March against the WHO and begging not to stop from italy,this was a fuck up,going our own way we said,we know better than the world's experts we said
Excess deaths is a poor way of using data, especially when this is the very first time our country has been forced to stay in our home by the government.
Excess deaths might have been more accurate during the 1968 outbreak, when lockdown didn’t happen and people still got hospital treatment for other things.
What do you thinks going to happen now? You think it won’t spread again? What then?Suicidal tactics with a new virus literally nobody in the world has immunity to
It’s not
Suicidal tactics, I’m not saying do nothing at all.
kaz7
Well-Known Member
That is the indirect causes,they are included in the figuresIt’s a key point.
It clearly states excess deaths can be used to measure both direct and indirect causes of deaths to COVID-19.
How many missed cancer appointments? How many missed appointments for other illnesses? How many health issues made worse by no exercise?
I know... the indirect causes are because of lockdown, which I’m arguing against...That is the indirect causes,they are included in the figures
kaz7
Well-Known Member
It is the way it is being counted,scientist say it is the only way when you can't test everyone for covid,you have the confirmed and then these calculationsAs much as I can’t stand this government, it wasn’t a decision to just not test, there’s logistics and costs involved.
Excess deaths is a poor way of using data, especially when this is the very first time our country has been forced to stay in our home by the government.
Excess deaths might have been more accurate during the 1968 outbreak, when lockdown didn’t happen and people still got hospital treatment for other things.
We had hundreds of labs offering to do the testing and make our own tests,it was a deliberate decision taken to stop testing then when we decided we should the rest of the world had brought up the tests ,it was a terrible decision
kaz7
Well-Known Member
It is too hot for this back and forth xI know... the indirect causes are because of lockdown, which I’m arguing against...
Which scientist?It is the way it is being counted,scientist say it is the only way when you can't test everyone for covid,you have the confirmed and then these calculations
We had hundreds of labs offering to do the testing and make our own tests,it was a deliberate decision taken to stop testing then when we decided we should the rest of the world had brought up the tests ,it was a terrible decision
They all say different things, it’s important to listen to them all and then make your mind up which was you agree with.
Excess deaths is data that isn’t confirmed, it’s a poor way of doing it, especially in never-done-before circumstances like a national lockdown.
Well they had to budget in some way and they may have chosen furlough over testing, who knows?
Apologies for making you hot ;-)It is too hot for this back and forth x
grunge
Well-Known Member
Which scientist?
They all say different things, it’s important to listen to them all and then make your mind up which was you agree with.
Excess deaths is data that isn’t confirmed, it’s a poor way of doing it, especially in never-done-before circumstances like a national lockdown.
Well they had to budget in some way and they may have chosen furlough over testing, who knows?
excess deaths is 100% necessary as a guide to how well a country has handled this and to show if they are hiding deaths.
spain for example, if it’s true they are only reporting the deaths from the last 24h can’t hide the true figure as it’s exposed by excess deaths.
as for testing budget. They didn’t use the thousands of NHS labs available and decided to pay private companies to do it. They actively spent more than they needed. Not to get too political Quite a few of Cummings family and friends have got very rich out of all this with all the contracts handed out. The app for example.
excess deaths is 100% necessary as a guide to how well a country has handled this and to show if they are hiding deaths.
spain for example, if it’s true they are only reporting the deaths from the last 24h can’t hide the true figure as it’s exposed by excess deaths.
as for testing budget. They didn’t use the thousands of NHS labs available and decided to pay private companies to do it. They actively spent more than they needed. Not to get too political Quite a few of Cummings family and friends have got very rich out of all this with all the contracts handed out. The app for example.
Nobody in Europe is hiding deaths, some are just recording it differently and have said so, it’s only the brain deads over here who become apoplectic at our figures comparing them to Spain, who don’t realise everyone is doing it differently.
100,000’s of people have severe health conditions and need treatment, are we seriously to believe forcing them to stay in their homes hasn’t contributed to a fraction of them dying, thus inflating the figures?
Tim of the Oak
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Nobody in Europe is hiding deaths, some are just recording it differently and have said so, it’s only the brain deads over here who become apoplectic at our figures comparing them to Spain, who don’t realise everyone is doing it differently.
100,000’s of people have severe health conditions and need treatment, are we seriously to believe forcing them to stay in their homes hasn’t contributed to a fraction of them dying, thus inflating the figures?
City Fan shared evidence (research reports) that where doctors are on strike mortality goes down. The evidence indicates that, at least in the short term, reducing medical services doesn’t result in lots of excess deaths. I read the linked reports that City Fan helpfully provides because this was surprising to me at first too.
The much discussed Prof Sikora has been lobbying to get the range of cancer services back up and running. In the early part of the lockdown, the Professor said in interviews that most people (their health) was resilient for six months. Health Services have been working to resume a broader range of services (and the picture may be mixed across the Country) and health leaders have been appealing to the public for months to access the NHS if they have healthcare problems. We know they a lot fewer people have been accessing some health services including A&E but that might be just a result of fear of the virus rather than the impact of our relatively light lockdown. That said, there are reports of more people having mental health problems and domestic violence has gone up so there certainly are social costs from the lockdown that we have been coming out of.
The Government has taken the bulk of the financial hit so far and yes we will have to lay it back eventually. Yes some people and their businesses have suffered badly but I heard stats on Radio 5 Live that 40% of public were better off (eg not paying to travel to work and eating out) and a third of people were financially worse off. That might change when furlough ends, of course.
City Fan shared evidence (research reports) that where doctors are on strike mortality goes down. The evidence indicates that, at least in the short term, reducing medical services doesn’t result in lots of excess deaths. I read the linked reports that City Fan helpfully provides because this was surprising to me at first too.
The much discussed Prof Sikora has been lobbying to get the range of cancer services back up and running. In the early part of the lockdown, the Professor said in interviews that most people (their health) was resilient for six months. Health Services have been working to resume a broader range of services (and the picture may be mixed across the Country) and health leaders have been appealing to the public for months to access the NHS if they have healthcare problems. We know they a lot fewer people have been accessing some health services including A&E but that might be just a result of fear of the virus rather than the impact of our relatively light lockdown. That said, there are reports of more people having mental health problems and domestic violence has gone up so there certainly are social costs from the lockdown that we have been coming out of.
The Government has taken the bulk of the financial hit so far and yes we will have to lay it back eventually. Yes some people and their businesses have suffered badly but I heard stats on Radio 5 Live that 40% of public were better off (eg not paying to travel to work and eating out) and a third of people were financially worse off. That might change when furlough ends, of course.
Do you have a link to that study?
Tim of the Oak
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Do you have a link to that study?
Not at hand mate but the links are earlier on this thread.
Not at hand mate but the links are earlier on this thread.
I don’t believe for a second that 4 months of reduced medical services doesn’t affect mortality.
grunge
Well-Known Member
Nobody in Europe is hiding deaths, some are just recording it differently and have said so, it’s only the brain deads over here who become apoplectic at our figures comparing them to Spain, who don’t realise everyone is doing it differently.
100,000’s of people have severe health conditions and need treatment, are we seriously to believe forcing them to stay in their homes hasn’t contributed to a fraction of them dying, thus inflating the figures?
I used spain as an example, but you can apply it to any country, India for example as they wont have the infastructure in place to handle exact statistics, Iran who activly hide deaths. Excess deaths is the absolute barometer on how a country is handling the pandemic. Even down to how well they handled the other medical issues at hand.
Do you have any evidence that the people that need help are not getting it? there will be the odd one no doubt but just annecdotally I know 2 people going through Chemo and they havn't had a single appointment cancelled, and I know someone who had a heart attack in lockdown and they got all the treatment they needed too.
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