COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[UUJblue]

Chinese GP cancelled.

the premier league season could be wrote off yet! :)

 

[Manchester33]

Genuine question as I don't know the answer. Were they welding shut entire apartment blocks, with the inhabitants still inside, during the Bird Flu outbreak?

I ask because for the first time, that video above has made me think we're not being told the full story here.

Honestly, I don't have a clue. I know China has been planning for issues like this recently (last 5 years or so), and perhaps this is one of their newly sanctioned actions in a particular region. I have no recollection of them doing this for the Bird Flu outbreak.

The issue with videos like the ones above is that anything can be framed to suit an agenda, it could all be western propaganda to make China look bad (think ongoing trade wars with USA). Are these videos independently verified? Probably not. The way it's implied on those videos is that they're locking people in to prevent the coronavirus spreading. So naturally, that's what we presume. However, I know that they use similar techniques to 'secure' buildings before demolition (to ensure no-one ventures into a building that's about to be demolished). So how do we know it's not an old video being used in a new context for the purpose of fear-mongering/click baiting? In some of the videos they are wearing protective clothing, in others, they aren't etc. There's just something strange about the videos that makes them hard to believe in.

 

[Dubai Blue]

Honestly, I don't have a clue. I know China has been planning for issues like this recently (last 5 years or so), and perhaps this is one of their newly sanctioned actions in a particular region. I have no recollection of them doing this for the Bird Flu outbreak.

The issue with videos like the ones above is that anything can be framed to suit an agenda, it could all be western propaganda to make China look bad (think ongoing trade wars with USA). Are these videos independently verified? Probably not. The way it's implied on those videos is that they're locking people in to prevent the coronavirus spreading. So naturally, that's what we presume. However, I know that they use similar techniques to 'secure' buildings before demolition (to ensure no-one ventures into a building that's about to be demolished). So how do we know it's not an old video being used in a new context for the purpose of fear-mongering/click baiting? In some of the videos they are wearing protective clothing, in others, they aren't etc. There's just something strange about the videos that makes them hard to believe in.

Yeah that's all fair enough. I should have put the disclaimer "If true..." on my post!

 

[SebastianBlue]

Honestly, I don't have a clue. I know China has been planning for issues like this recently (last 5 years or so), and perhaps this is one of their newly sanctioned actions in a particular region. I have no recollection of them doing this for the Bird Flu outbreak.

The issue with videos like the ones above is that anything can be framed to suit an agenda, it could all be western propaganda to make China look bad (think ongoing trade wars with USA). Are these videos independently verified? Probably not. The way it's implied on those videos is that they're locking people in to prevent the coronavirus spreading. So naturally, that's what we presume. However, I know that they use similar techniques to 'secure' buildings before demolition (to ensure no-one ventures into a building that's about to be demolished). So how do we know it's not an old video being used in a new context for the purpose of fear-mongering/click baiting? In some of the videos they are wearing protective clothing, in others, they aren't etc. There's just something strange about the videos that makes them hard to believe in.

I applaud and support the skepticism — it really is the best way to operate in the hyper-realistic, constantly manipulated informationscape that we now occupy. And I agree that some of the videos being posted supposedly linked to COVID-19 are likely either repurposed or staged (I think specifically of a few depicting people walking down empty streets and showing several “dead” bodies on the sidewalk, as they are impossible to verify as authentic). There are also definitely false accounts and quite a bit of fabricated information coming out of the crisis, as is the case with any situation like this.

But it is a bit of a stretch to imply most of the quarantine/outbreak videos are repurposed or staged, given the sheer number of them and the fact people living there, people who know people living there, and non-connected Chinese speakers have verified many to be authentic based on the audible discussion and areas depicted in the videos (or, at least, very likely to be authentic). Add to that the many videos posted by people in the isolation wards, hospitals (some of not particularly well-organised teams trying to remove those that have succumb to the virus), and of people being assaulted or functionally kidnapped on the streets even outside of China for being suspected of being infected, and it is very difficult to dismiss the videos as hoaxes. And that’s not even considering the many real announcements from companies all around the world indicating they are either delaying production/delivery of products now or anticipate having to do so in the next few weeks, which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is, if nothing worse, a serious disruption of China’s social and economic system, which should be concerning to anyone (as it requires quite a disruptive force to effectively halt production in such a large system).

The sheer amount of money needed to create such convincing content (to fool Chinese people living abroad, at that) and pay so many people to lie to the world and their loved ones outside of China just to push a specific “it’s even worse than it appears” narrative would surely outweigh any revenue generated from coverage.

We are talking about likely the single biggest collective conspiracy in the history of humanity if most of the videos, personal accounts, phone calls, video/text chats, agency statements, and media stories are meant to exaggerate the crisis.

And for what? To collapse the Chinese economy? Which will in turn start a horrific economic chain reaction at a time when most countries absolutely cannot handle another recession (meaning it will be much, much worse than 2008)?

If anything, any pronounced, collective conspiracy that might exist would likely be attempting to do the opposite: downplay the crisis in order to lessen the impact to the Chinese (and world) economy.

As I said, skepticism is an important and valuable mindset, but it shouldn’t be taken so far as to assume even widely substantiated information is false. That’s when you move in to the realm of falling victim to Xi/Putin/Trump-style thought control.

 

[Rammy Blue]

I applaud and support the skepticism — it really is the best way to operate in the hyper-realistic, constantly manipulated informationscape that we now occupy. And I agree that some of the videos being posted supposedly linked to COVID-19 are likely either repurposed or staged (I think specifically of a few depicting people walking down empty streets and showing several “dead” bodies on the sidewalk, as they are impossible to verify as authentic). There are also definitely false accounts and quite a bit of fabricated information coming out of the crisis, as is the case with any situation like this.

But it is a bit of a stretch to imply most of the quarantine/outbreak videos are repurposed or staged, given the sheer number of them and the fact people living there, people who know people living there, and non-connected Chinese speakers have verified many to be authentic based on the audible discussion and areas depicted in the videos (or, at least, very likely to be authentic). Add to that the many videos posted by people in the isolation wards, hospitals (some of not particularly well-organised teams trying to remove those that have succumb to the virus), and of people being assaulted or functionally kidnapped on the streets even outside of China for being suspected of being infected, and it is very difficult to dismiss the videos as hoaxes. And that’s not even considering the many real announcements from companies all around the world indicating they are either delaying production/delivery of products now or anticipate having to do so in the next few weeks, which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is, if nothing worse, a serious disruption of China’s social and economic system, which should be concerning to anyone (as it requires quite a disruptive force to effectively halt production in such a large system).

The sheer amount of money needed to create such convincing content (to fool Chinese people living abroad, at that) and pay so many people to lie to the world and their loved ones outside of China just to push a specific “it’s even worse than it appears” narrative would surely outweigh any revenue generated from coverage.

We are talking about likely the single biggest collective conspiracy in the history of humanity if most of the videos, personal accounts, phone calls, video/text chats, agency statements, and media stories are meant to exaggerate the crisis.

And for what? To collapse the Chinese economy? Which will in turn start a horrific economic chain reaction at a time when most countries absolutely cannot handle another recession (meaning it will be much, much worse than 2008)?

If anything, any pronounced, collective conspiracy that might exist would likely be attempting to do the opposite: downplay the crisis in order to lessen the impact to the Chinese (and world) economy.

As I said, skepticism is an important and valuable mindset, but it shouldn’t be taken so far as to assume even widely substantiated information is false. That’s when you move in to the realm of falling victim to Xi/Putin/Trump-style thought control.

We’re all going to die?

 

[SebastianBlue]

We’re all going to die?

No, not from this, anyway, but it is sensible to say we’re already being negatively impacted and that negative impact may worsen well before it gets better.

 

[Barcon]

I refuse to go north of Ellesmere mate ;)

 

[aguero93:20]

We’re all going to die?

Yep, the chances of that are exactly 100%.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Yep, the chances of that are exactly 100%.

Speak for yourself, mortal.

 

[aguero93:20]

Speak for yourself, mortal.

Never had you down as a space-lizard, is it on the Spanish side? Not that it makes a difference with all the inbreeding.