COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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Begs the question which 4 are bigger?

Bit out of date
mSY5epn.jpg
 
Here's the Telegraph article on the UK Antibody Test report from a week ago:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ntibody-test-validated-results-show-under-40s

Ah ha!
From the antibody test report, antibodies ARE generated by people who are asymptomatic or are not very ill. The issue is whether the small number of antibodies produced will make a person immune from future infection in a few months time.

Ha we are both referencing the same article/guy!

That article is confusing though as it's based on quotes in the same piece that say some are not producing antibodies at all. Not a small amount, just none.

"I think the antibody tests do work – but young people just don't seem to have the antibodies, which suggests they are using other mechanisms to fight off the virus. We're not picking it up in young people, so politicians may not be able to issue certificates of immunity. I don't think it will be a good tool for unleashing lockdown."

Whereas the article around that suggests they are. Mixed messaging.
 
Every single death from this horrid disease is absolutely tragic. My heart goes out to all their families and friends. Very tragic as I say. Dependant upon what news channels you use, between 7 and 12 Covid related deaths in the last 24 hours in Scotland. During a similar period of time 8 deaths in East Anglia from individual RTA's (admittedly over 48 hours). This is during a period of a 90% reduction in road traffic. Absolutely not trying to undermine what we need to continue to do and stay at home and protect the NHS, but we have now seen 140,000 companies apply for 'furlough help'. There seems to be a common view that as many as 25% of employees affected will never be re employed. I really don't know the answer, but we need to take a balanced view and try and and think about how we can possibly return to a staged return to normality if at all possible. (Now need to sit back and compose myself before I dare hit the send button). Take care and stay safe everyone.
 
Ha we are both referencing the same article/guy!

That article is confusing though as it's based on quotes in the same piece that say some are not producing antibodies at all. Not a small amount, just none.

"I think the antibody tests do work – but young people just don't seem to have the antibodies, which suggests they are using other mechanisms to fight off the virus. We're not picking it up in young people, so politicians may not be able to issue certificates of immunity. I don't think it will be a good tool for unleashing lockdown."

Whereas the article around that suggests they are. Mixed messaging.
The telegraph article and another I read suggests there are antibodies - just very few if them.
 
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Every single death from this horrid disease is absolutely tragic. My heart goes out to all their families and friends. Very tragic as I say. Dependant upon what news channels you use, between 7 and 12 Covid related deaths in the last 24 hours in Scotland. During a similar period of time 8 deaths in East Anglia from individual RTA's (admittedly over 48 hours). This is during a period of a 90% reduction in road traffic. Absolutely not trying to undermine what we need to continue to do and stay at home and protect the NHS, but we have now seen 140,000 companies apply for 'furlough help'. There seems to be a common view that as many as 25% of employees affected will never be re employed. I really don't know the answer, but we need to take a balanced view and try and and think about how we can possibly return to a staged return to normality if at all possible. (Now need to sit back and compose myself before I dare hit the send button). Take care and stay safe everyone.

That's the difficult question but I don't think we can think about returning to normal until we've built up the infrastructure/supplies to deal with any second wave.

Unless we've got the testing capacity to do 100,000+ daily tests (maybe even more than that) plus enough medical supplies/PPE/facemasks to protect workers and patients for the next surge in cases then I don't think there should be a relaxation of the restrictions.
 
Studies suggest very few have had Covid-19 without symptoms
Herd immunity hopes hit by WHO report suggesting 2%-3% infected without realising it


https://www.theguardian.com/society...t-very-few-have-had-covid-19-without-symptoms

surprised Paddy Power haven’t got in on the act yet on how many people are infected with ranges from 0.7% to 25% being banded in different countries by different scientists
The value of R0 is the main issue here. The guesstimate started at about 1.7 rose to 2.3 by mid February and US CDC analysis of Chinese data in early April suggests it's more likely to be between 3 and 5. These changes have a devastating effect on herd immunity calculations.
Herd Immunity% = (1-1/R0)*100
So for various R0 values Herd Immunity would be:
1.7 = 41.2%
2.3 = 56.5%
3 = 66.7%
5 = 80%
 
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Summon the Usherwood - what a powerful testimony from LBC reporter Theo Usherwood - glad he is back on the road to recovery but I doubt the NHS will ever have a better advocate in the media again

 
Every single death from this horrid disease is absolutely tragic. My heart goes out to all their families and friends. Very tragic as I say. Dependant upon what news channels you use, between 7 and 12 Covid related deaths in the last 24 hours in Scotland. During a similar period of time 8 deaths in East Anglia from individual RTA's (admittedly over 48 hours). This is during a period of a 90% reduction in road traffic. Absolutely not trying to undermine what we need to continue to do and stay at home and protect the NHS, but we have now seen 140,000 companies apply for 'furlough help'. There seems to be a common view that as many as 25% of employees affected will never be re employed. I really don't know the answer, but we need to take a balanced view and try and and think about how we can possibly return to a staged return to normality if at all possible. (Now need to sit back and compose myself before I dare hit the send button). Take care and stay safe everyone.
TBF 2018 averaged out at just over 5 road deaths per day across the entire GB. I don't know what the hell happened in East Anglia. There have been reports of people taking advantage of the quiet roads to push it to the limits. I know I saw one myself, absolutely nuts, Honda S2000 beyond the limits around a city centre roundabout with another fishtail as he proceeded onto a stupidly dangerous short stretch of road over a ancient, awkward, totally blind bridge on a bend where people cross from the park to get to Tesco. I've seen people driving far too fast quite a bit, but there was something deliberately excessive about it that made me think he'd not have tried that normally. There's a theory that says some people are addicted to risk, and I wonder if the current measures will have wound some people up in a way that makes this sort of thing more likely. You just want to squeeze the sense into the top of their head, but it'll take more subtlety in govt messaging and measures as well as much more enforcement to have a real impact, and then you've got to admit that you're fighting nature, young people's minds will always provoke them to seek risky excitement.

The economic fallout is an unknown. Whilst the capital continues to flow in the markets, I'm torn between wondering which planet they are on, and quietly noting that the theory is they've got outstanding access to information and the ability to form very safe analysis. Equity, commodity and currency prices seem stable, and - hopefully - this means that economic opportunities for individuals should be possible, through a mixture of re-openings and new businesses. But, yeah, I'm not convinced the bankers and other investors aren't motivated to keep things afloat and pass the liquidity between them whilst it's there. It's incredible that it still seems heresy to say that the markets are excessively focused on the short-term. If you can earn a bonus in six months or a year, or keep taking a margin, then you're going to. And then worry about the period after that as it arrives. Because who knows if the liquidity will be there then. So it still seems to me that it's not possible to say current market conditions actually do reflect a view of the future.

I know so many young families with adults who've now lost their jobs, or are furloughed. My impression has always been one of horror at the precarious finances, and therefore lives, of millions of UK families. I don't see them now so I've not kept my eye on how they manage, what sacrifices are made, what needs aren't. I'm pretty clear in my view that this class of people have been left behind and squeezed for decades. Whilst it's not as ridiculously insecure as the average american family's existence, we're at risk of seeing huge structural economic and social problems that have been largely been allowed to grow unchecked breaking wide open.

And then there's social care. We've let these problems fester. I wonder how much more strain the families can survive.
 
That's the difficult question but I don't think we can think about returning to normal until we've built up the infrastructure/supplies to deal with any second wave.

Unless we've got the testing capacity to do 100,000+ daily tests (maybe even more than that) plus enough medical supplies/PPE/facemasks to protect workers and patients for the next surge in cases then I don't think there should be a relaxation of the restrictions.
Also those people who tested positive if there is a second wave can the ones who have had it be immune?. Then if there not immune it will just keeping go round and round until everyones been given a vaccine scary times.
 
This might be a dumb question to ask but can anyone tell me what R0 means? I have seen a lot here and in some other forums but no idea how it works.
 
Also those people who tested positive if there is a second wave can the ones who have had it be immune?. Then if there not immune it will just keeping go round and round until everyones been given a vaccine scary times.
If no one gains immunity from having had it, then no vaccine will ever work.

However, I don’t read WHO’s statement as “there’s no evidence survivors gain immunity”, I read it as “there’s no evidence that antibody tests are accurate enough to confirm someone showing antibodies has gained immunity” (as it only shows evidence the body has produced them, not how many.)

They are two very different statements.
 
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This might be a dumb question to ask but can anyone tell me what R0 means? I have seen a lot here and in some other forums but no idea how it works.
It’s how many people an infected person passes the virus on to (on average).

So an R0 of 2.3 means that if you’re infected then you’re likely to infect over two people on average.

Social distancing and lock downs artificially reduce the R0 by limited the possible spread of the virus. Any R0 less than one means that the virus eventually dies out as the number infected will reduce.
 
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