******Cricket Thread******

[jimharri]

Superb stuff by Rooooooooooot, seems to being played in a better spirit than previous series against Pakistan. Warne would have said well done be the rest of them wouldnt the smack arsed convict cunts.

My man Woakes keeping his great form up as well, a cricketer reformed, good lad

Fair point; it's not always been hugs and kisses between the two sides!

 

[jay_mcfc]

Debate on the verdict about who is better, Root or Kohli. I think too many people are influenced by Kohli's brilliance in one day form. In test cricket Root's record trumps him. The only problem Root had was his conversion rate and I said the other day he was coming to a crossroads in his career whether he will end his career as an all-time great of the game or just be a very good player. It seems that he realised that and concentrated fully through the entirety of his knock. If he carries on playing like that then greatness awaits.

I wouldn't swap him for any player in the world and I reckon he's the best, certainly most complete, English batsman of my generation. And he's 25.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

Debate on the verdict about who is better, Root or Kohli. I think too many people are influenced by Kohli's brilliance in one day form. In test cricket Root's record trumps him. The only problem Root had was his conversion rate and I said the other day he was coming to a crossroads in his career whether he will end his career as an all-time great of the game or just be a very good player. It seems that he realised that and concentrated fully through the entirety of his knock. If he carries on playing like that then greatness awaits.

I wouldn't swap him for any player in the world and I reckon he's the best, certainly most complete, English batsman of my generation. And he's 25.

He must be reading your posts mate ;-) I think Wasim (one of my cricket heroes) made a good point that Kohli has done it in Australia, should Roooooot tick that one off in the future there wont be much argument that he is better (his stats are certainly better). Root really does have everything going for him, he's still learning really and isnt in his peak batting years yet, which come from 28-32 I would say, with far better nutrition and fitness that is probably even extended later these days.

Its a hard choice between the 2 of them, ABD and Smith, all of which are very good and putting up superb numbers when considering any of the formats. 4 excellent batsmen. I cant stand Smith probably the least 'naturally' talented of the 4 but he is an example of where working ridiculously hard can get you.

 

[jay_mcfc]

He must be reading your posts mate ;-) I think Wasim (one of my cricket heroes) made a good point that Kohli has done it in Australia, should Roooooot tick that one off in the future there wont be much argument that he is better (his stats are certainly better). Root really does have everything going for him, he's still learning really and isnt in his peak batting years yet, which come from 28-32 I would say, with far better nutrition and fitness that is probably even extended later these days.

Its a hard choice between the 2 of them, ABD and Smith, all of which are very good and putting up superb numbers when considering any of the formats. 4 excellent batsmen. I cant stand Smith probably the least 'naturally' talented of the 4 but he is an example of where working ridiculously hard can get you.

I agree on Root's fitness, once he got 150 he seemed to really slow down and looked physically done. This is probably a part of the same problem that sees him get to 50-60 then lose concentration and play a bad shot. I'm sure the extra concentration that he clearly had for this innings contributed to him being wrecked.

Root was very young in that series in Australia and the whole England side was in a mess and facing some of the fastest bowling in the history of the game. I have no doubt in the next Ashes he'll prove he is the best in the world. He's so comfortable playing forcing shots off the back foot that he'll score lots of runs and quickly on those Aussie wickets. Besides, Kohli was a complete failure last time he played in England so perhaps that's a draw in bad tours. Root's average is nearly ten runs better, I'd take that every time.

Smith and ABDV obviously the other two - and Cook, but I'd still take Root over all of them. He never looks out of nick, looks like he could get a hundred runs every time and he plays every shot in the book in all formats of the game. And I agree that the best is yet to come. Just hope they keep the captaincy away from him and his back stays healthy.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Stokes was clearly out yesterday, don't know what all the fuss was about. There was a noise when it was live, a mark on hot spot and a spike on snicko. People are debating the hot spot because there was already a mark on his glove but you can clearly see it getting bigger as the ball goes past. Great use of the technology.

 

[Craig]

Stokes was clearly out yesterday, don't know what all the fuss was about. There was a noise when it was live, a mark on hot spot and a spike on snicko. People are debating the hot spot because there was already a mark on his glove but you can clearly see it getting bigger as the ball goes past. Great use of the technology.

Not sure about that mate because as he turned his body the spot became more apparent but was definitely there before the ball reached him. I also thought the noise was so slight it could easily have been made from his feet. Certainly enough doubt for them to stick with Umpires call for me.

Anyway it was a cracking days play and hopefully the rain holds off so we get more of the same today.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

Stokes was clearly out yesterday, don't know what all the fuss was about. There was a noise when it was live, a mark on hot spot and a spike on snicko. People are debating the hot spot because there was already a mark on his glove but you can clearly see it getting bigger as the ball goes past. Great use of the technology.

I think the main issue is that he took 3 and a half mins to make the decision, so he wasnt sure, as said above snicko there was no clear spike just a continual zig zag like it was his spikes dragging and hot spot was vague. If the umpire had given it out then fair enough, but it was not out on the field, so the evidence needed to be clear and obvious, it wasnt at all. Stokes' reaction said a lot. Its hardly important so no need to make a big deal about it, but that umpire was shit when he was standing in the last test as well, guessed too many times, I hate umpires that seem to guess, like Daryl Harper used to all the time.

 

[Corky]

I think the main issue is that he took 3 and a half mins to make the decision, so he wasnt sure, as said above snicko there was no clear spike just a continual zig zag like it was his spikes dragging and hot spot was vague. If the umpire had given it out then fair enough, but it was not out on the field, so the evidence needed to be clear and obvious, it wasnt at all. Stokes' reaction said a lot. Its hardly important so no need to make a big deal about it, but that umpire was shit when he was standing in the last test as well, guessed too many times, I hate umpires that seem to guess, like Daryl Harper used to all the time.

Most lbw decisions are estimates on the balance of probabilities, but that is cricket.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

Most lbw decisions are estimates on the balance of probabilities, but that is cricket.

I think the ICC are going to look at DRS and maybe change the regulations a bit. I would go with only 1 challenge allowed per 80 overs and fuck umpires call off, if its hitting the stumps, its hitting the fucking stumps, 2 decisions can go to DRS and be identical however if the umpire says not out or out it changes everything in the final decision, how can 2 balls be the same but not have the same outcome? Also less challenges to the umpire will firm up their position of being in charge of the game and them not being called into question continually. 1 decision would mean that DRS will do what it was intended to and only be used to cut out the howler by the umpire rather than be used tactically.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Needless to say I disagree with you both. When I watched it live I heard a sound and thought it was out. Then there was a noticeable spike in between the zig zag effect as the ball goes past. And for me there is very clearly a mark on hot spot and to be fair to the third umpire the first time he watched it he said he could see a mark but he wanted to check all the other options. I thought he did exactly the right thing and he came to the right decision, regardless of what the umpire's decision was.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

Needless to say I disagree with you both. When I watched it live I heard a sound and thought it was out. Then there was a noticeable spike in between the zig zag effect as the ball goes past. And for me there is very clearly a mark on hot spot and to be fair to the third umpire the first time he watched it he said he could see a mark but he wanted to check all the other options. I thought he did exactly the right thing and he came to the right decision, regardless of what the umpire's decision was.

I think Butcher got it right on the verdict, on balance he probably did get something on it, but the relegations state to over turn the on field decision there has to be clear evidence, taking that long to make the decision means there wasnt clear evidence, so he shouldnt over turn it. The umpire's original decision isnt disregarded.

 

[jay_mcfc]

I think the ICC are going to look at DRS and maybe change the regulations a bit. I would go with only 1 challenge allowed per 80 overs and fuck umpires call off, if its hitting the stumps, its hitting the fucking stumps, 2 decisions can go to DRS and be identical however if the umpire says not out or out it changes everything in the final decision, how can 2 balls be the same but not have the same outcome? Also less challenges to the umpire will firm up their position of being in charge of the game and them not being called into question continually. 1 decision would mean that DRS will do what it was intended to and only be used to cut out the howler by the umpire rather than be used tactically.

I agree with that. I think umpire's decision should only be in effect when the technology is inconclusive. For me, if at least half of the ball is hitting the stumps then the batsman should be out. I think when the technology was introduced they were a bit worried about hurting the power and feelings of the umpires. But it's moved on very quickly and quite clearly the technology is helping the game on the whole, including umpires. It's now time to change it so that the right decision is made regardless of what the umpire gave.

 

[jay_mcfc]

I think Butcher got it right on the verdict, on balance he probably did get something on it, but the relegations state to over turn the on field decision there has to be clear evidence, taking that long to make the decision means there wasnt clear evidence, so he shouldnt over turn it. The umpire's original decision isnt disregarded.

But I think there was clear evidence and so did the third umpire. Hot spot alone was conclusive to me and obviously to the third umpire too despite him wanting to check everything else a number of times.

Btw this piece on Woakes and his interview with Nas - You can clearly see why England have stuck by him for so long. Seems to be level-headed, intelligent and a sound bloke - a rarity in sports men these days.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

But I think there was clear evidence and so did the third umpire. Hot spot alone was conclusive to me and obviously to the third umpire too despite him wanting to check everything else a number of times.

Btw this piece on Woakes and his interview with Nas - You can clearly see why England have stuck by him for so long. Seems to be level-headed, intelligent and a sound bloke - a rarity in sports men these days.

If it was clear, why look at it for so long?? He looked at that as long (and the same shots over and over) as i have seen a third umpire look at a decision, I dont see how you can call it conclusive, we must agree to disagree. If the regulations were set up to stop hurting the umpire's feelings, its out, but as things stand, not out. Precisely why the regulations need changing for me. I'm a bowler at heart, so the concept of umpire's call winds me up, its either out or it isnt out for me, its either hitting the stumps or it isnt, but I dont run the ICC. When you bowl someone out, it doesnt matter where it hits the stumps or how much of the ball struck the stumps, the umpire doesnt say well under 50% of the ball has hit the stumps there, you didnt uproot the stump, so its not out.

I think one thing about Woakes is it wont go to his head all the praise he is getting, he will continue to work hard to get results. As you say level headed and intelligent.

 

[jay_mcfc]

If it was clear, why look at it for so long?? He looked at that as long (and the same shots over and over) as i have seen a third umpire look at a decision, I dont see how you can call it conclusive, we must agree to disagree. If the regulations were set up to stop hurting the umpire's feelings, its out, but as things stand, not out. Precisely why the regulations need changing for me. I'm a bowler at heart, so the concept of umpire's call winds me up, its either out or it isnt out for me, its either hitting the stumps or it isnt, but I dont run the ICC. When you bowl someone out, it doesnt matter where it hits the stumps or how much of the ball struck the stumps, the umpire doesnt say well under 50% of the ball has hit the stumps there, you didnt uproot the stump, so its not out.

I think one thing about Woakes is it wont go to his head all the praise he is getting, he will continue to work hard to get results. As you say level headed and intelligent.

I don't think they will give out every instance of the ball slightly clipping the stumps because they will say there has to be a slight element of doubt with the technology. You would probably get test matches ending much quicker as well and the averages of most batsmen dropping at an alarming rate.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

I don't think they will give out every instance of the ball slightly clipping the stumps because they will say there has to be a slight element of doubt with the technology. You would probably get test matches ending much quicker as well and the averages of most batsmen dropping at an alarming rate.

Not if they only have 1 review, if they have 2 like now, then yes, DRS will do what it was introduced to do get rid of the howler. In other sports like tennis they dont worry about what the line judge has said, its out or in.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Not if they only have 1 review, if they have 2 like now, then yes, DRS will do what it was introduced to do get rid of the howler. In other sports like tennis they dont worry about what the line judge has said, its out or in.

Difference in tennis is that the technology tells you where it landed. In cricket hawk eye is used to project where the ball was going.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

Difference in tennis is that the technology tells you where it landed. In cricket hawk eye is used to project where the ball was going.

I get that, but in tennis you can be talking about mm, sometimes they are barely noticeable until the camera zooms right in, nobody says the technology might be wrong, lets just go with the line judge because we cant be sure, you either trust the technology to use it or you dont. Like I said I am a bowler, if the ball is hitting the stumps, its hitting the stumps, I dont care how much of the ball is hitting it. Too many reviews for me as well, I might take it a little further and have 1 review per innings not per 80 overs. I like a bit of controversy, gives us something to talk about so I like it when they have no reviews left and the umpire has a shocker ;-)

 

[jay_mcfc]

I get that, but in tennis you can be talking about mm, sometimes they are barely noticeable until the camera zooms right in, nobody says the technology might be wrong, lets just go with the line judge because we cant be sure, you either trust the technology to use it or you dont. Like I said I am a bowler, if the ball is hitting the stumps, its hitting the stumps, I dont care how much of the ball is hitting it. Too many reviews for me as well, I might take it a little further and have 1 review per innings not per 80 overs. I like a bit of controversy, gives us something to talk about so I like it when they have no reviews left and the umpire has a shocker ;-)

Yesterday was evidence that even technology brings controversy.

Anyway, what you doing for the next test? With India on the horizon, Rashid has to play at Edgbaston and Oval at least, probably the two best English grounds for spin. Woakes and Stokes make the balance of the team wonderful despite a lack of real quality in the top 5 not including Root and Cook. For me you drop either Vince or Ballance and either bump everyone up a spot to let Rashid come in at 9 or just put Moeen in at 5. Whichever way works for me. I'd leave out Ballance because I still see a classy player in Vince but he's gonna have to start getting runs.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

Yesterday was evidence that even technology brings controversy.

Anyway, what you doing for the next test? With India on the horizon, Rashid has to play at Edgbaston and Oval at least, probably the two best English grounds for spin. Woakes and Stokes make the balance of the team wonderful despite a lack of real quality in the top 5 not including Root and Cook. For me you drop either Vince or Ballance and either bump everyone up a spot to let Rashid come in at 9 or just put Moeen in at 5. Whichever way works for me. I'd leave out Ballance because I still see a classy player in Vince but he's gonna have to start getting runs.

Not like controversy of the fielding team not getting a blatant decision - like when Broad didnt walk in the Ashes and the Aussies didnt have any reviews left ;-)

Edgbaston will depend on the weather I think, supposed to be mixed weather for the next week, so might not get enough sun on the pitch to produce a Bunsen. Should it be nice, Edgbaston has always been a very fast drying pitch, being right next to a stream and even more with modern technology of the drainage, so very much see how it is on the day.

Rashid would be playing this test if I was choosing things, said as much before the test. If its a Bunsen at Edgbaston, I think Vince has to step down, he keeps getting out time and time again the same way, he's had more chance than Ballance in this run. I agree he looks classy, but he needs to go away, work on things and prove he has learnt from the experience, like Woakes and Stokes did, its not giving up on him more to give him a chance to work at things. If it looks more like a seamers pitch, and overcast conditions, i'd drop Ali as 2 spinners just wont get the overs.

Saying this the selectors dont seem to like to drop batsmen.