Crippled By Control

wolviedinho said:
Ok name me the last player to take games like yesterday by the scruff and get us over the line? You are letting them off far too easily. The players get their instructions from Pep but once they go on the pitch it is on them to win individual battles and carry out said instructions. They can’t even string 2 passes together.
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EXACTLY. When was the last time anyone took the initiative? What happened to Phil last night when he moved out of position and tried to influence the game? When was the last time we threw the sink at someone in the second half?

I’ve got really bad news for some people. This is not bad form that will be solved by playing a bit quicker or getting Aguero back. This is who we are. It’s what Pep has moulded us into and how he thinks we’ll be successful going forward. The fact he didn’t make any significant changes in these last two games tells you everything you need to know about how happy he is with the way the games are going. He’s happy because we’re in control of the game because that’s all he cares about. If any player goes against that they will find themselves out of the team.
 
BlueBanger said:
Balls to that...criticism is very important. Its small time mentality to stand by a team who is not even showing the most basic desire on the pitch and are earning very high wages in doing so. I hate this idea that "to be a fan you have to always back players/staff"...its just nonesense. I get it when someone is just having a downturn in form, like kev, but where do you draw the line when people are showing no basic movement off the ball, no grit, no basic effort??? I keep seeing this from multiple players.
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No problem at all with people disagreeing I just can’t be arsed with the trolls saying ‘look at our modern day fans, a bad result and we’re like United fans’ etc.
 
Fat Chance said:
Kev slots the pen and mahrez does the same....totally different picture
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You see this is exactly how I’ve been thinking. There are a million mitigating circumstances to this season. But eventually you have a penny dropped moment and all the little warning signs of an 18 month decline start to become clearer. Last night was that moment for me.

And you might have inadvertently hit on another point. So many players have missed so many penalties. Strange, no? Maybe a team playing with fear....
 
Hi,
I am a lurker on the site. Love reading the posts,but have become frustrated watching my beloved team. Maybe we have been spoiled by our recent success and need to accept the natural cycles that happen.
However,the points being made here are valid. There is a rigidity to our play that has almost become boring to watch.It is not hard to fathom that eventually teams figure out how to deal with that rigidity, which is what is happening. We have lost some of our most influential players recently, and some are now getting old.I dont believe the players we have now are necessarily poor, but they seem unable to express themselves due to the tactics we appear to play to.
Other than KDB, we have no game changers now that Silva ,Yaya,Sane have gone. The defence has been sured up nicely,but midfield and attack lack something special. Is it players or tactics,I dont know? How can Bernardo be world class one year and then average the next? How can everyone wish Stones out and he is suddenly brilliant. Is it fatigue,personal issues or dare I say the manager. I seem to remember reading that managers have a natural cycle of 3-4 years at a club. I love what Pep has done. The truth is that not only has Pep been great for us, but just about every team now follows his methods which then means another approach necessary. Maybe we are in a transition to another tactical approach from Pep .
Until recently, I never thought for one minute the team needed a new manager and I am happy to wait for Pep to be given this season to sort issues out. Equally another two years of this boring mediocrity will be hard to watch. If we get Messi and Haaland we have the game changers we need. I suspect the Messi issue is why Pep remains at the club. Messi is sadly a short term fix who will deny an opening for either a youth player or some other creative player to evolve in the team.Not ideal other than financially.
We seem to buy players for about 50 million but refuse to pay for the players who are game changers like we used to.Tevez,Dzeko, even Balotelli were great forwards. Jesus, I am afraid is not up to their level.
Anyway, when you have lived through the dire years, then the last ten have been phenomenal and whatever happens to City, in my life the joy I have experienced has been immense. New players, new manager, new tactics all may help. I am sure that things will change and we will be back on top. If not, I thank City for the best 10 years of my football life.
 
One point we could add to the debate is how much the opposition is forcing us into static dead ends.
Last night you could clearly see WBA hold off from competing in several zones, even in their own half, including the two channels leading to the edge of their areas. As the match wore on they just systematically collapsed back into their area as we slowly walked the ball up the pitch. Like we’ve seen so many times.
How many times do our wingers end up totally static on the corner of the their defence? Usually with 4 players blocking any dribble or 1-2. So the ball gets recycled and we all start yelling.
Let’s be clear, I’m not saying teams aren’t playing how we want them to play. There obviously been a lot of time spent refining tactics specifically for us. Good for them.

I have faith in the players. They aren’t shit. But I do think there’s a systemic failure atm. Watching us crawl slowly forward with the ball and team going at the same pace is frustrating and leaves the opposition plenty of time to get organised.
Seriously, when was the last time we saw a team blowing out of their arses in the last quarter after we’ve moved them around all game? I think WBA could still be playing. All they had to do was shuffle left and right.
We need to be attacking from deeper with KDB and try to maintain some dynamics with the ball by switching play far more clinically, ie ditch these insipid LVG Us. Make the ball do the work as it used to be called.
 
Pep has become a lot more cautious, remember the 1-2 loss at home to liverpool in 2018, chasing the tie?

He played Walker, Ota and laporte in a back 3 with Sane and Bernardo as wing backs.

The normal midfield 3 and then sterling and jesus up front.

No water carriers in sight
 
jay_mcfc said:
You see this is exactly how I’ve been thinking. There are a million mitigating circumstances to this season. But eventually you have a penny dropped moment and all the little warning signs of an 18 month decline start to become clearer. Last night was that moment for me.

And you might have inadvertently hit on another point. So many players have missed so many penalties. Strange, no? Maybe a team playing with fear....
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I felt the same Jay. You summed it up well. We’ve played nowhere near our best for ages and some (including me) have said this is not transition but decline. However, there were always excuses before or mitigating circumstances e. g well at least we got a point at the Swamp and we’ve got WBA to come. Or at West Ham -we’ll we conceded to a worldie and managed to come back. Reality is once Phil equalised the game was there for the taking. Or Leeds- we were well on top then got tired and they’re a very good team. Well look at them, they can’t get any points or score etc.
Yesterday and watching those first 60 shite minutes really did it to me. The game should have been won but in 60 mins at home we created one good chance and moved as fast as a dead snail.
Hold on though perhaps Pep does have a master plan? Get control of the game,restrict opponents so they either score a worldie or a fluke like last night. Then we only need to convert a couple of chances and bingo. I can understand that plan but not only are defencesbettrr organised but we have lost pace, wizardry and form but the key point is that WE DO NOT SCORE enough gilt edges chances and it is costing bloody big time. Here’s a few
KDB missed pen v Liverpool when we were set up to hold onto it
Same game Jesus not only misses a sitter but misses it badly
West Ham away - KDB cuts through the defence with a ball so good it’s almost impossible for Sterling not to score- yet he miscontrols and the chance is nowhere near as good
Rags- beautiful move in a game of few chances sets up former player of the year in his left foot 15 yards out and he bottles it.
Yesterday - how did Sterling and Gundo Miss? Take these midfielders, Wijnaldum, Dele Alli, Pogba, YaYa, Lampard, - how many would miss that header
Lyon - Raheem game changer from 2 yards
Has KDB drawn a save yet bar the one last night? His shooting is atrocious at present
I could go on and on but with the current system we have no plan B so because we can’t score clear chances we struggle.

Once Foden drifted inside and we started playing quick one and two touch we started to look more dangerous (of course Foden was then subbed)

I tell you from what I’ve read and seen, if Cruyff was alive he would punch Pep and the invisible assistant in the face at how slow and sloppy the passing is.
Did Dias and Ake make any positive or quick run or pass forward given the Albion players had retreated? Answer is no.
Rant over, I’ll get in with my bath
 
Very good post.

This is a team that restarted last season putting 4/5/6/7 past teams and looking full of beans. We can’t have regressed that much so soon?

the players clearly look worried to lose possession when we’re crying out for someone t take the game by the scruff of the neck, make runs, take players on, play quick one twos, etc

it’s great to see us keeping clean sheets but not if it makes us toothless at the other end. Give me 4-1’s and the odd loss over countless draws and low scoring games where we keep dropping points.

we were poor last season by our own standards but far better than we’ve been this season
 
I don’t post very often and tend to be someone who supports the team and the manager but the one thing I just don’t get and not just last night is how arguably the best manager in the world doesn’t change things when it’s not working.
I get some of the players might be out of form but we had attacking players on the bench why not go three at the back and bring on an attack minded player or go to one pivot But do something different.
Also read about gradual decline but after the initial lockdown in the main we bartered everyone and scored goals so it really is a pretty significant 10 game decline.
 
Great post. The fear and caution in our play is palpable. As is the lack of courage and willingness to take a risk. We look over-engineered to the point that we show very little creative spontaneity. I don't blame the manager for that, I blame the players.
 
Tab said:
I don’t post very often and tend to be someone who supports the team and the manager but the one thing I just don’t get and not just last night is how arguably the best manager in the world doesn’t change things when it’s not working.
I get some of the players might be out of form but we had attacking players on the bench why not go three at the back and bring on an attack minded player or go to one pivot But do something different.
Also read about gradual decline but after the initial lockdown in the main we bartered everyone and scored goals so it really is a pretty significant 10 game decline.
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Because in his mind it is working. He wants control and in these past two games we've been in full control.

The sooner fans understand that pep has moulded the team to play like this the better.
 
I loved Joe Royles throw as many up front as possible philosophy when we needed a goal. I do think Peps intensity has a limited shelf life with players
 
I think Pep was doing an Ian Curtis with the 4th official when he raised the added on time electronic board.

Pep's lost control again.



F***ing brilliant! RIP, Ian Curtis.
 
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nijinsky said:
Seriously, when was the last time we saw a team blowing out of their arses in the last quarter after we’ve moved them around all game? I think WBA could still be playing. All they had to do was shuffle left and right.
We need to be attacking from deeper with KDB and try to maintain some dynamics with the ball by switching play far more clinically, ie ditch these insipid LVG Us. Make the ball do the work as it used to be called.
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Some very good points in your post but this part is especially good. The problem we have that for as long as we're in control he isn't going to change too much. When we're drawing in the second half we never really go for it any more. When was the last time we completely overwhelmed a team, getting runners from deep or wide to get in behind the defence and create chance after chance until we inevitably score? We don't, it's completely disappeared which has made us really easy to defend against. It's why the opposition don't role over and collapse after 70 minutes because playing like this isn't mentally or physically draining for them. The hardest thing to defend is speed, fluidity and movement and playing this robotic rigid crap takes that out of our armour.
 
nijinsky said:
One point we could add to the debate is how much the opposition is forcing us into static dead ends.
Last night you could clearly see WBA hold off from competing in several zones, even in their own half, including the two channels leading to the edge of their areas. As the match wore on they just systematically collapsed back into their area as we slowly walked the ball up the pitch. Like we’ve seen so many times.
How many times do our wingers end up totally static on the corner of the their defence? Usually with 4 players blocking any dribble or 1-2. So the ball gets recycled and we all start yelling.
Let’s be clear, I’m not saying teams aren’t playing how we want them to play. There obviously been a lot of time spent refining tactics specifically for us. Good for them.

I have faith in the players. They aren’t shit. But I do think there’s a systemic failure atm. Watching us crawl slowly forward with the ball and team going at the same pace is frustrating and leaves the opposition plenty of time to get organised.
Seriously, when was the last time we saw a team blowing out of their arses in the last quarter after we’ve moved them around all game? I think WBA could still be playing. All they had to do was shuffle left and right.
We need to be attacking from deeper with KDB and try to maintain some dynamics with the ball by switching play far more clinically, ie ditch these insipid LVG Us. Make the ball do the work as it used to be called.
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Of all the posts in recent weeks I cannot recall one making the very relevant point you make in your opening paragraph. There has been a non stop litany of criticism, some valid, some constructively critical and more than a few where anger management is advised. It is Pep's fault, the owner's fault, the assistant's fault, Var, Covid, the players, individual targeted players, refs etc. Barely a word about the opposition, like they are only an irrelevance to be swatted away and 3 points in the bag. We do not have a divine right to play how we want, to buy who we want, to win when we want and how we want. The players who formed a team that evolved to be so great as to scare almost all opposition are now part of history and currently opponents are not scared of us.
The better ones will take us on knowing they can beat us but that often plays to our advantage even still. The poorer ones technically are not prepared to do that, they are as fit as us and as athletic as us and know that 90 mins. is a long time to play negatively but almost always they may get 1 or 2 chances, one early and the deflected goal last evening for example. Twisted as it may seem to some, in a way despite all our possession, we controlled the ball but West Brom and previously others, controlled the game. They put up their wall and said we are not moving from here no matter how much you want us to, climb the wall if you want to score. It didn't work perfectly, we did score, we did have enough chances to win comfortably, their keeper one way or another defended his goal, they sneaked a goal but as you correctly say "WBA could still be playing". It was miserable and frustrating to watch for City fans but the wall, despite the leaks, nabbed a point.
" same pace is frustrating and leaves the opposition plenty of time to get organised" a fair point and Kevin playing deeper relevant too, but second half last night how could we play deeper, they were organised to man the wall wherever we were, Ederson could have had a barbecue, our defence were in midfield, ott maybe but how would Kev do much different, when playing deep would have meant him being behind our defenders. West Brom had their goal, their wall and some luck and they had no intention of allowing passes long or short or dribbles penetrate. Your "make the ball do the work" could work if we passed the ball back to Eddie and let him launch a few rockets and hope for a knockdown ,old style, not much else did. There are enough variations on a criticism theme to fill the pages here but it is important to recognise, as you rightly have, that we should apportion some of the blame or credit to our opponents and not adopt the entitled mindset that success is entirely in our control.
 
The players are sh!t scared to do something which isn't in Pep's manual. Absolutely no thinking outside the box.
They seem to be worn out and crippled by playing the same tedious tactical plan all over again. No freedom, no improvisation, no flair.
Once we had a wizard (Silva) and a bulldozer (Yaya) in the midfield - now it's a toiling Kev patching the things up and a couple of erratic wingers and sluggish central midfieldiers.
I've praised Jesus' workrate many times, but running around like mad and closing down the opponets isn't what a striker is supposed to do. When Jesus eventually gets a chance, he's too knackered to finish it properly.
Defensively, City have improved greatly, but the Laporte situation really worries me. Happy for Stones to regain his form, but Laporte is the only central defender who can push forward and play a decent forward pass.

If it's 'the transition season' then I think we are supposed to suffer a little bit, but unless there are some serious squad improvements already lined up, City are on the road to terminal decline.
 
Wow!

When I wrote this I wasn’t completely convinced that it was definitely the case. I was thinking about various things that had happened over 12-18 months and things started to come together.

I’ve just listened to the Bluemoon podcast and there’s a 2 minute clip in there from Guardiola’s post WBA press conference. He was asked about the attack and why we weren’t scoring more goals. His response was staggering. He just started talking about the control the defense has. Then he talked about how we controlled the game. Then he talked about controlling the possession and their counter attack. And then finally, just when you think he couldn’t talk about control any more he actually said we couldn’t control the left side with Foden and Mendy!

Lads, it’s right there in front of us. It has been for a long time as his actions and words have been telling us. All the things that fans are not happy about are HIS game plan. They are 18 months in the making, they’re not happening by accident, but by design. He is only interested in control. We are not gonna drop the double pivot, our full backs aren’t gonna start rampaging up the wing, Foden is not gonna play in 8, KDB is not gonna play deeper, we’re not gonna play quicker or with a high, intense press. We are methodical, robotic, position and possession based team. Rodri plays because he’s doing EXACTLY what Pep wants him to.

Pep hasn’t just let bad form fester for 18 months without realizing. He’s created what we are. The sooner fans accept this everything else becomes clearer and all the talk of dropping Rodri, moving players, playing quicker etc is completely fruitless.
 
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