De Bruyne injury - Back in Training (p89)

[vmsuhail]

Wouldn't it be better to rotate the Silva's and KDB more? David isn't the youngest anymore while Bernardo looks like a good replacement looking towards the future, afaik if you want to keep aging players good as long as possible it's best to give them fewer games eitherway. KDB played a load of games last year so perhaps a few less wouldn't hurt neither.

Yes. I prefer only 2 of KDB,Silva,Silva to start and one of them rested or 25 minutes from the bench.

 

[BlueMoonRisin’]

Totally agree - KdB's wasted at DM. Much rather try Delph there, or work with Zinchenko - he's pretty close to being a great option at DM.

I think you may have a point about Zinchenko mate. I've never considered him there but you never know.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Totally agree - KdB's wasted at DM. Much rather try Delph there, or work with Zinchenko - he's pretty close to being a great option at DM.

I’m not sure why Pep doesn’t seem to like Zinchenko. For his age, he is outstanding, but I’m not sure if Pep trusts him or not for such a pivotal role. Preseason, I was as impressed with him, if not more so, than Luiz, whom we fought to get into the squad.

 

[NorCalBlue]

I’m not sure why Pep doesn’t seem to like Zinchenko. For his age, he is outstanding, but I’m not sure if Pep trusts him or not for such a pivotal role. Preseason, I was as impressed with him, if not more so, than Luiz, whom we fought to get into the squad.

Yeah, I thought he looked better than Luiz as well. He made a few positional mistakes and his tackling can improve, but he seems willing to learn and he's shown a lot of improvement already. The main thing I like about him is how cool he is under pressure and how well he links up with the other players. And since I just remembered that this thread is supposed to be about de Bruyne, I also like that he looks like a mini-Kev.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Yeah, I thought he looked better than Luiz as well. He made a few positional mistakes and his tackling can improve, but he seems willing to learn and he's shown a lot of improvement already. The main thing I like about him is how cool he is under pressure and how well he links up with the other players. And since I just remembered that this thread is supposed to be about de Bruyne, I also like that he looks like a mini-Kev.

Getting back on track then, Kev isn’t a DM, unless we are struggling in a game and don’t have anyone else to do it. However, with at least 1 central defender always in the bench, unless Stones isn’t in the squad, I’d put him there before nullifying Kev’s Game.

 

[citytilllidie]

Good job Kev didn't play on Sunday, or Martinez would've stole him

 

[FlemishDuck]

There is a trend amongst City fans to assume that a deep lying midfielder has to be a hard tackling De Jong like player or a player with an engine like Fern or Milner but it could be a technical player like De Bruyne. Guardiola played in that position. Players like Alonso and Javi Martinez played a deep midfield role for Bayern so I could see De Bruyne playing there.

I prefer him using his running power and passing in danger areas but when you have players like B.Silva, David Silva etc in advanced positions, it might make sense to use him in a deeper role.

Yes the DM can be a technical player but the crucial error you make imho is perceiving that you can do this withought having any defensive oriented ball winning midfielder present somewhere else in the midfield. Usually when the option is taken to have a deep lying playmaker then there still will be a Fern type of ball winning midfielder somewhere else in the midfield, often in the CM role.

When on the attack usually one midfielder stays back somewhat to recover lost balls or kill counters when need. Thats simply where you will typically atleast need 1 defensive oriented type of player. You don't want to give KDB this role because it wastes a lot of his skills if he is not given more freedom to roam and attack even if it makes sense for reasons to start him from the DM position.

Totally agree - KdB's wasted at DM. Much rather try Delph there, or work with Zinchenko - he's pretty close to being a great option at DM.

Not nessecarily but he could be wasted there if he's not given a very fiting role when starting from that position AND when not been provided enough defensive cover when moving forward.

Practicly speaking KDB must be given the "roaming playmaker" when in the DM role, a very free role that simply starts from deep.

I doubt that anyone would be against KDB starting in the DM role providing that it doesn't restrict him from playing his part in the attack all the way up to the box. That simply requires having capable people covering his back then.

The problem however with a midfield 3 made up of 2 Silva's and KDB is the question "which one will be the one expected to stay back for defensive duty?" knowing they all like to attack and would be rather wasted on purely defensive duty.

Knowing that someone has to stay back, then he can just aswell be a prefferably athletic and great on defense given what he will be doing. And if possible it would be nice if he is fairly technical aswell or perhaps even has a good long shot. A type of player like Fernandinho is exactly what you want for this and it has proven its value?

KDB is great at orchestrating killer counters and that usually starts from the DM position, thats the more compelling reason why you want him positioned there providing that it doesn't inpact his attacking contribution

 

[lasereyes]

Yes the DM can be a technical player but the crucial error you make imho is perceiving that you can do this withought having any defensive oriented ball winning midfielder present somewhere else in the midfield. Usually when the option is taken to have a deep lying playmaker then there still will be a Fern type of ball winning midfielder somewhere else in the midfield, often in the CM role.

When on the attack usually one midfielder stays back somewhat to recover lost balls or kill counters when need. Thats simply where you will typically atleast need 1 defensive oriented type of player. You don't want to give KDB this role because it wastes a lot of his skills if he is not given more freedom to roam and attack even if it makes sense for reasons to start him from the DM position.



Not nessecarily but he could be wasted there if he's not given a very fiting role when starting from that position AND when not been provided enough defensive cover when moving forward.

Practicly speaking KDB must be given the "roaming playmaker" when in the DM role, a very free role that simply starts from deep.

I doubt that anyone would be against KDB starting in the DM role providing that it doesn't restrict him from playing his part in the attack all the way up to the box. That simply requires having capable people covering his back then.

The problem however with a midfield 3 made up of 2 Silva's and KDB is the question "which one will be the one expected to stay back for defensive duty?" knowing they all like to attack and would be rather wasted on purely defensive duty.

Knowing that someone has to stay back, then he can just aswell be a prefferably athletic and great on defense given what he will be doing. And if possible it would be nice if he is fairly technical aswell or perhaps even has a good long shot. A type of player like Fernandinho is exactly what you want for this and it has proven its value?

KDB is great at orchestrating killer counters and that usually starts from the DM position, thats the more compelling reason why you want him positioned there providing that it doesn't inpact his attacking contribution

I think this misses the point of the original post which was how to get KDB and the two Silvas into the same lineup. The only way to do that without disrupting our front 3 is to play KDB as the only DM player - that is a #6 position which would totally waste his attacking skills. You can of course playing him alongside Fernandinho, but then you are not getting both Silvas in unless one of them plays on the wing (in place of Sane or Sterling) which in turn would waste their talents.

 

[chestervegasblue]

Good job Kev didn't play on Sunday, or Martinez would've stole him

Although, if he'd been on the field, I think he may have taken the penalty.

 

[FantasyIreland]

I think this misses the point of the original post which was how to get KDB and the two Silvas into the same lineup. The only way to do that without disrupting our front 3 is to play KDB as the only DM player - that is a #6 position which would totally waste his attacking skills. You can of course playing him alongside Fernandinho, but then you are not getting both Silvas in unless one of them plays on the wing (in place of Sane or Sterling) which in turn would waste their talents.

Exactly.

That was the aim of my comment.While i realise KDB's attacking brilliance is blunted while he is deployed in a deeper role,it allows us the option of getting three of the leagues best midfielders in the same line up and all the brilliance and magic that accompanies such :-)

 

[FantasyIreland]

There is a trend amongst City fans to assume that a deep lying midfielder has to be a hard tackling De Jong like player or a player with an engine like Fern or Milner but it could be a technical player like De Bruyne. Guardiola played in that position. Players like Alonso and Javi Martinez played a deep midfield role for Bayern so I could see De Bruyne playing there.

I prefer him using his running power and passing in danger areas but when you have players like B.Silva, David Silva etc in advanced positions, it might make sense to use him in a deeper role.

Spot on Marv.

 

[FlemishDuck]

I think this misses the point of the original post which was how to get KDB and the two Silvas into the same lineup.

Ah ok, well yeah my error i must admit.

The only way to do that without disrupting our front 3 is to play KDB as the only DM player

I guess there are still "theoretical options", like a 3-4-3 (i know, theoretical) as obviously one would need to take a defender away to have Fern and the 6 attacking players you mentioned on the pitch. Theoreticly you might be able to play all those players with 3 at the back and wingback positions taken by Bernardo and KDB but yeah that would seem a waste. Though admittingly if you play against a team that doesn't create much trough the flanks then it actually might work rather well.

Not nessecary though. As it is we have 5 relative defensive profiles and 5 relative attacking profiles, i wouldn't take a defender away to put an attacker on defend duty safe for perhaps when we play really weak teams that do nothing but park the bus.

Players like Alonso and Javi Martinez played a deep midfield role for Bayern so I could see De Bruyne playing there.

Were these players about at the same "relative mediocre" level of defending of KDB and withought support of a dedicated Ball winning midfielder?

My impression with Deep lying playmakers is that more often they tend to be either playmakers that are rather skilled at defense allowing to simply orchestrate play from the back or they are of a more attacking kind at which point they are typically supported by a ball winning midfielder.

A midfield 3 of 2 Silva's and KDB seems relative soft on the defensive side imho, if you get my gist.

 

[Shaelumstash]

There is a trend amongst City fans to assume that a deep lying midfielder has to be a hard tackling De Jong like player or a player with an engine like Fern or Milner but it could be a technical player like De Bruyne. Guardiola played in that position. Players like Alonso and Javi Martinez played a deep midfield role for Bayern so I could see De Bruyne playing there.

I prefer him using his running power and passing in danger areas but when you have players like B.Silva, David Silva etc in advanced positions, it might make sense to use him in a deeper role.

Spot on.

Pirlo and Scholes couldn't defend for shit, they didn't do too badly in that position later on in their careers.

DeBruyne's vision and delivery of an early pass is so good, he could be devastating in that role. He's dropped back there late on in games for us and looked excellent.

And before people say he looked stunted there for Belgium, he needs runners. Sterling and Sané racing down the wing looking to be put in early, is a rather different prospect to Nacer Chadli playing wing back.

 

[supercity88]

There is a trend amongst City fans to assume that a deep lying midfielder has to be a hard tackling De Jong like player or a player with an engine like Fern or Milner but it could be a technical player like De Bruyne. Guardiola played in that position. Players like Alonso and Javi Martinez played a deep midfield role for Bayern so I could see De Bruyne playing there.

I prefer him using his running power and passing in danger areas but when you have players like B.Silva, David Silva etc in advanced positions, it might make sense to use him in a deeper role.

Great post. He is the best long range passer we have and has the most pace of any other midfield players in central areas. Fernandinho reads the game so well but De Bruyne has the ability to do that defensively. In home games where we dominate he could easily be in the pivot allowing Bernardo and Silva to find space and keep the wingers out wide and running into the box late. I think it would work really well as he would have the pace to cover any counter even if he didn't read the situation right at the time. His shooting ability from long range would make him a real threat too. A chance to rest Ferny without losing too much defensive cover.

 

[FlemishDuck]

Do note that i also agree that KDB can be great from the DM position as a roaming playmaker and i don't feel that the DM position must be held by a ball winning midfielder per se, however my argument was that there must remain a ball winning midfielder somewhere in the midfield if KDB is going to start from the DM position with the freedom to roam and move forward. Someone must plug that hole when attackers are on the attack and preferably not someone who's quality's is primarily on the attacking half.

Marvin might be right although i'm not sure to who he adresses himself too but i do wonder wether he would accept the requirement for having atleast 1 ball wining midfielder of a more defensive profile. I will take it as obvious that even a ball winning midfielder must be technicly gifted enough to fit the passing style of our team and that we always have the money to get just that if needed. I also would argue that we need to have a player of a similar profile to Fernandinho to rotate with him and as an option for Fern's eventual retirement. I wouldn't play a midfield 3 of KDB and 2 Silva's in our current setup.

 

[OntarioBlue]

We cant drop Bernardo on Kevs return so do we employ him slightly deeper and as a replacement for Dinho?

Walker---Laporte---Stones---Delph
--------------KDB--------------
--------Silva-------Silva-------
----Sterling--Aguero--Sane-----

I was thinking as I was watching the game on Sunday how comfortable Bernie looked playing alongside Ferna in a slightly deeper role. He is such an enormous talent he could play anywhere. I wonder how he would fare as the deep man in the middle of a three with KDB and Merlin either side. Ferna is going to need some rest eventually. I think this could work.

 

[balotelli's back pocket]

How about this

Ederson
Walker Stones Laporte Mendy
Silva
Bernardo KDB
Sterling Aguero Sane

Could Silva play deeper with Kevin and Bernardo helping him out?

 

[Rolee]

Something I think worth noting in this debate is Fernandinho's aerial ability, I don't think any of the options suggested come anywhere close to him in this regard and it's an important factor as the hoofballers will target that area for their knock down headers.

DeBruyne needs to be utilised in his best position, not at pivot where he'll be playing with one hand tied behind his back.

 

[citymad]

There is a trend amongst City fans to assume that a deep lying midfielder has to be a hard tackling De Jong like player or a player with an engine like Fern or Milner but it could be a technical player like De Bruyne. Guardiola played in that position. Players like Alonso and Javi Martinez played a deep midfield role for Bayern so I could see De Bruyne playing there.

I prefer him using his running power and passing in danger areas but when you have players like B.Silva, David Silva etc in advanced positions, it might make sense to use him in a deeper role.

Great post. I just wouldn't want him too deep that he doesn't get a chance to use his shooting boots.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Fern will be fine until January, will give us everything he's got.

That way, the set-up can be to rest Dave, and complete the midfield with Bernardo and Kev.

Personally, when he's got a bit more meat on him, I think Foden could do an amazing job there.

I decided to watch a bit more of this lad Ndombele. He's perfect for us in many ways.