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Death penalty for Boston bomber Dzokar Tsarnaev
- Thread starter Blue Haze
- Start date
whp.blue
Well-Known Member
Damocles said:Death penalty is pretty simple to dismiss really. Always has been.
Is it a deterrent?
Considering we still have crime increases in death penalty states then obviously not and those who lost the death penalty or reintroduced it saw little to no change in the direction of their crime.
We have no death penalty but life imprisonment is clearly no deterrent either do you want to argue we shouldn't even bother?
Is it cheaper?
No, death penalty prisoners go through numerous appeals processes and can take up to 20 years fighting against it in numerous cases, not at their own expense.
Just allow one appeal if if fails ensure sentence is carried out within twelve months of sentance
Is it more ethical?
No, the justice system is based on the single ideal that a crime isn't a crime against an individual alone but against the collectivist society. The people deciding to kill somebody for killing somebody is mob rule. The state actually performing the execution is state sanctioned murder. They kill somebody as a lesson to others that people shouldn't kill somebody. This is like trying to fart your way out of a house fire.
You could argue that any action taken by the state is mob rule that is a nonsense argument TBH
So it isn't cheaper, isn't more ethical and doesn't act as a deterrent and tells people that murder is acceptable under certain circumstances so doesn't provide a philosophical education.
The only people who support the death penalty are either thick people or savages. There's not a single argument that cannot be instantly dismissed; it's one of those things that pretty much everybody in the educated world realises that should be gotten rid of but nobody has the political capital to do it because it is then presented as them being "soft on crime".
Thank Parliament that we don't have to deal with such nonsense over here.
Taximania said:Maybe one of our board spoilers on the photos so peeps can choose if they wish to see the carnage produced by a pressure cooker bomb.
Quote ;
Nearly 30 convicted killers released from jail over the past 10 years have gone on to kill again, according to Home Office figures released yesterday.
This for me Is the main reason for capital punishment
A carved in stone 100% none re-offending rate
And before it is commented on
The flip side of capital punishment has to be the potential for innocent people to be put to death
As such should only be exercised when there is absolute guilt or voluntary admission with DNA and other modern technological advances to assist in a verdict.
I don't think there can ever be a situation where we can be 100%, that is why a jury sits on cases and even then it is just a judgement rather than a finding of the truth.
Even if someone admitted it, I would say they would also have to be checked for insanity because I can't imagine who would sentence themselves to death through an admission. In fact for me, admitting it is somewhat grounds for mitigation as opposed to someone who is lying and mantains they didn't do it and is then found guilty. Most countries who do still have the death penalty aren't exactly bastions of justice and moral right anyway. There is also no evidence that the death penalty has any social effect beyond the ultimate punishment, it does not pose any deterrent of any kind.
The death penalty although can be simplistically justified as a punishment for an awful crime still just doesn't sit right with me - I don't think anyone can make a judgement on whether someone should live or die, that is why murder is a crime in the first place.
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
Sorry - we decided to move this as there were some graphic photos posted which we considered unsuitable.
whp.blue
Well-Known Member
inbetween said:Taximania said:Maybe one of our board spoilers on the photos so peeps can choose if they wish to see the carnage produced by a pressure cooker bomb.
Quote ;
Nearly 30 convicted killers released from jail over the past 10 years have gone on to kill again, according to Home Office figures released yesterday.
This for me Is the main reason for capital punishment
A carved in stone 100% none re-offending rate
And before it is commented on
The flip side of capital punishment has to be the potential for innocent people to be put to death
As such should only be exercised when there is absolute guilt or voluntary admission with DNA and other modern technological advances to assist in a verdict.
I don't think there can ever be a situation where we can be 100%, that is why a jury sits on cases and even then it is just a judgement rather than a finding of the truth.
Even if someone admitted it, I would say they would also have to be checked for insanity because I can't imagine who would sentence themselves to death through an admission. In fact for me, admitting it is somewhat grounds for mitigation as opposed to someone who is lying and mantains they didn't do it and is then found guilty. Most countries who do still have the death penalty aren't exactly bastions of justice and moral right anyway. There is also no evidence that the death penalty has any social effect beyond the ultimate punishment, it does not pose any deterrent of any kind.
The death penalty although can be simplistically justified as a punishment for an awful crime still just doesn't sit right with me - I don't think anyone can make a judgement on whether someone should live or die, that is why murder is a crime in the first place.
To be honest that is just bollox
What about when murderers kill people and then surrender to the police at the scene that is 100%
TCIB
Well-Known Member
Some people deserve to die and these are innate feelings to most of us. We want to keep the race alive and seeing such dangerous individuals killed eases the risk of us failing. It is a very complex mental issue and Damocles is wrong. He has his idealistic principles only here, not some set in stone rules of life in his corner.
Justice system was set up by humans, fallible humans. I know when a person should die in my mind and others have their own standards in their mind.
It is all very personal really and there is no right or wrong here.
Justice system was set up by humans, fallible humans. I know when a person should die in my mind and others have their own standards in their mind.
It is all very personal really and there is no right or wrong here.
TCIB said:Some people deserve to die
Based on whose judgement?
The greater point is that only God is our judge, or for the literal atheists who need it, the idea of judgement from a morally flawed human is in itself morally flawed.
whp.blue
Well-Known Member
Damocles said:TCIB said:Some people deserve to die
Based on whose judgement?
The greater point is that only God is our judge, or for the literal atheists who need it, the idea of judgement from a morally flawed human is in itself morally flawed.
There is no such thing as God so we make our own rules and if you really think we can have a society governed by some mythical super being then we are all in trouble
TCIB
Well-Known Member
Damocles said:TCIB said:Some people deserve to die
Based on whose judgement?
The greater point is that only God is our judge, or for the literal atheists who need it, the idea of judgement from a morally flawed human is in itself morally flawed.
Based on my judgement.