Defeat I can accept but a lack of effort not.

[BobKowalski]

Is there a downside to lack of effort though?

Aguero in the 442 interview

"But Aguero believes a second successive season without significant silverware should not be deemed a 'failure'. "Not a failure, because you can't win everything," he said. "But as players we need to find a commitment to do things well. We've made some excellent signings and have to players to do great things this year

Firstly he is wrong. A second successive season without silverware is a failure. One season isn't great but it can happen. ManU under Taggart made collecting silverware their reason for being. Even Chelsea with all their perceived managerial chaos have a habit of collecting silverware. We had started down that road and should have added the FA Cup last season until we decided that the week leading to the final and the day itself was probably the best time to go into meltdown.

So this season we do have to win something and preferably something major but hell I'd take a cup as a starter - but no silverware and that's not a failure? Come on Sergio give me a break.

I know I keep banging on about the significance of yesterday and how it differed in one crucial aspect to an away loss/draw under Mancini but mentality and attitude is my concern and from the players point of view what actually was the downside to last years failure? New contracts all round and yes we can get rid of the bloke who keeps shouting at you to do better?

So again what is the downside of failure this year from a players perspective? Especially when the players themselves do not necessarily regard it as failure?

 

[OB1]

I do think that most of the problem is in the players' heads. I am not sure what the problem is but I have yet to buy into the idea that the players don't care or are lazy. I also find it hard to believe that they were complacent about their opponents yesterday: they have found out often enough that you cannot take any team lightly. I do wonder if there is a fear factor a play here: the players have struggled away from home in games like yesterday's for some time and that may prey on their minds, consciously or unconsciously. Maybe we have too many "confidence" players? At the top level, mental strength is as important as technical ability: you need both.

I didn't think there was a major lack of effort yesterday and I don't believe that you achieve 70% possession if you are lazy.

 

[Anonymous]

I do think that most of the problem is in the players' heads. I am not sure what the problem is but I have yet to buy into the idea that the players don't care or are lazy. I also find it hard to believe that they were complacent about their opponents yesterday: they have found out often enough that you cannot take any team lightly. I do wonder if there is a fear factor a play here: the players have struggled away from home in games like yesterday's for some time and that may prey on their minds, consciously or unconsciously. Maybe we have too many "confidence" players? At the top level, mental strength is as important as technical ability: you need both.

I didn't think there was a major lack of effort yesterday and I don't believe that you achieve 70% possession if you are lazy.

It's pretty obvious that some people are just intent on turning yesterday into something it wasn't. We made some individual errors which is rare for us defensively but does happen, particularly when it's a makeshift back four. Beyond that it took the pattern of many of our away games last season. We didn't particularly play great but scored two goals, maybe should've scored one more, and generally controlled the game without looking overly threatening.

Time on the training field will iron the wrinkles out, and of course in the meantime those who were determined to think the worst before a ball was kicked, are thinking the worst and panicking.

 

[Blue2112]

Yesterdays result had nothing to do with lack of effort. Application was the issue.

I also think it's really easy for it to seem like there's a lack of effort when teams play as deeply as Cardiff did. There's simply fuck all space to run into, therefore not as much dynamic running as supporters like to see.

Ok the buzz word might not neccesarily be effort but whether it's application, desire, commitment,passion, tempo, urgency etc etc we all know what we are talking about and whenever any team wether or not it's a kids under 11's or a full scale international every player first and foremost should give their best for themselves, for each other, for the club and for the fans and if their ability and skills on the day fail them then at the very least they can walk off knowing they gave everything for the cause. Quite simply yesterday we did not.

 

[Mr Ed (The Stables)]

Next up Hull City at home and without taking anything for granted we should win that. What a great chance for the manager to send a message out for the team that the Cardiff performance was unacceptable. Drop Hart, Drop Yaya, Drop Garcia, Drop Silva. Drop Aguero, send them a message that they were all piss poor against Cardiff.

Or do the reverse psychology bit and tell them privately that they were below standard and shit but that you are giving them one last chance to redeem themselves, and we knock Hull into the middle of next week.

 

[Pam]

It feels daft to say this but unless Pellegrini does absolutely awful this year (as in 5th), I don't see the problem.

The problem, certainly amongst the supporters, is also pretty simple. Pellegrini replaced one of the most popular and successful managers in City's history. The fact the change was made for reasons wider than simply games won/lost is difficult for people to stomach as that's the only thing that generally matters to supporters. That's my take anyway.

Are you feeling okay, Billy?

 

[Anonymous]

Ok the buzz word might not neccesarily be effort but whether it's application, desire, commitment,passion, tempo, urgency etc etc we all know what we are talking about and whenever any team wether or not it's a kids under 11's or a full scale international every player first and foremost should give their best for themselves, for each other, for the club and for the fans and if their ability and skills on the day fail them then at the very least they can walk off knowing they gave everything for the cause. Quite simply yesterday we did not.

Application and tempo were a problem yesterday, but I posted in the matchday thread, that the tempo issue was due to the knock on effect of having Garcia at centre half, therefore having the full backs playing from deeper to give the centre halves more protection, therefore not playing the pressing game Pellegrini wants to implement, therefore ending up looking a lot like Mancini's team from last season. Nothing I saw yesterday screamed of "players don't give a shit". Bad day at the office yes. A serious or terminal problem, I don't believe so.

 

[mancity1]

I do think that most of the problem is in the players' heads. I am not sure what the problem is but I have yet to buy into the idea that the players don't care or are lazy. I also find it hard to believe that they were complacent about their opponents yesterday: they have found out often enough that you cannot take any team lightly. I do wonder if there is a fear factor a play here: the players have struggled away from home in games like yesterday's for some time and that may prey on their minds, consciously or unconsciously. Maybe we have too many "confidence" players? At the top level, mental strength is as important as technical ability: you need both.

I didn't think there was a major lack of effort yesterday and I don't believe that you achieve 70% possession if you are lazy.

Some good points OB1 notwithstanding most teams in the premiership even away from home "give" us the majority of possesssion and break when we give it away so to speak.

The nervousness of possession in the back half when being pressed is a fact or though which surprises me a little but some players don't play well and are prone to mistakes with the weight of expectation being much higher.

Lescott for example in my opinion was a much better performer and influenced the outcomes of games more in an Everton shirt than he has at City.

Yesterday though was a result of shocking defending on three occasions and we got the ultimate penalty each time.

 

[BobKowalski]

I do think that most of the problem is in the players' heads. I am not sure what the problem is but I have yet to buy into the idea that the players don't care or are lazy. I also find it hard to believe that they were complacent about their opponents yesterday: they have found out often enough that you cannot take any team lightly. I do wonder if there is a fear factor a play here: the players have struggled away from home in games like yesterday's for some time and that may prey on their minds, consciously or unconsciously. Maybe we have too many "confidence" players? At the top level, mental strength is as important as technical ability: you need both.

I didn't think there was a major lack of effort yesterday and I don't believe that you achieve 70% possession if you are lazy.

Touching on the whole our struggles away from home is playing on the minds business...in the last two seasons we have lost 9 games out of 38 away from home in the PL. ManU lost 5 away and 5 at home to our 2 (and that includes the farce that was Norwich). Over the last two seasons we have lost 1 more game than ManU. *

Now losing 29 games out of 38 I can see producing a lot of fear factor but 9 out of 38? Concern maybe. A desire to do better fine but fear? Don't buy it. I especially don't buy when we have gone 1-0 on 60 mins and the team you are playing is starting to look knackered. That was the perfect opportunity to put any 'fears' to rest.

* If I have the stats wrong feel free to correct them.

 

[OB1]

Some good points OB1 notwithstanding most teams in the premiership even away from home "give" us the majority of possesssion and break when we give it away so to speak.

There's an element of that but City still have to work to get it back and they did plenty of that but if your opponents game plan is to sit back, it will, I agree, tend to help you retain possession.

Also, early on in yesterday's game, Cardiff had more possession but City worked to change that.