Defence conundrum

The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
Otamendi aside, the rest don't look like they want to defend (and,sadly, he can't). Stones actually ran away from Costa yesterday, he just didn't want to know. The system we played yesterday just needs someone with real pace (Keith Curle would have excelled in that system yesterday). The issue I have is, we are 1-0 up, they're offering very little but we get caught three times with NINE players in the top third of the pitch. Now, there's playing a high line and there's football suicide. The issue over Taylor not giving decisions is in danger of masking the real issue, in that it looks like we don't want to win 1-0. We have no defensive discipline whatsoever. Out of the starting outfield 10, there is only Otamendi who is not better going forwards than backwards or has the word defender anywhere near a description of him. Look at Kante yesterday. I didn't hardly see him in our half, a role which not one of our players (since NDJ) have looked vaguely interested in playing. All that being said, if we are winning 3 or 4 nil after an hour (which we should have been yesterday) much of this discussion is rendered irrelevant.
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Something tells me Pep believes we would struggle to see games out so the better option is to get a second/third goal. I agree it is suicidal to play it so high though.
 
abu13 said:
I agree, we could do a lot worse than bringing him back. Alack of pace is catching us out and he can play on the left side if we did go to 3 at the back.
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Cannot see pep utilising the Mangler. he may be fast and powerful, but give him the ball to play with and he simply isn't up to scratch for pep.
 
Thaksinssoldier said:
To focus on the defense, what's pissing me off is Pep hurting us in two ways.

Firstly, these boys will not be here come July. So why try teach them a system they wont be here to play? Other than Stones, they'll all be moved out the door. So if you are going to play them, play to their strengths and build gradually. Mancini took a year of making us boring at the back to solidify it before unleashing the attacking football.

Secondly, if Pep really wants a system for the future, then play the future now! We'd all take it on the chin if it's Maffeo or Tosin in there messing up, as we know there would be a long term goal. But now if they get their chance next season, we have to go through this again at the back.

So for me he either dials it down at the back with Clichy and Aleks etc playing more to their strengths or he benches them and lets the kids learn on the job, at the inevitable expense of points this season, so we'd be far better next year.
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This is Bluemoon where there always has to be someone to blame
 
When we started the season, we had inverted full backs. I thought that was going to be our default option.

Another thing that has happened is that the backs are not showing for the ball. This is because of a few mistakes they lost confidence.

Against Chelsea when stones was shielding the ball instead of kicking it out ottamendi was very close by yet didn't make him self available for the pass.Unforgivable.
Made stones look like a tit.

Pep has tried to accommodate our players instead of the other way around. I am not sure why this occurred.
 
I agree with most regarding the personnel in the back,and upgrades are needed. But I doubt upgrades are on the way this year. Who's available and/or is it financially wise?
I'm hoping we will succeed with what we have. I'm convinced that the defence isn't playing as well as THEY can. Not that they're not as good as other teams or players (which may or may not be true).
The team as a collective are struggling with their confidence period. And until they grasp the new concept it's going to be difficult.
I'm certain I don't know the answers, but converting chances, midfield protecting the back 4, and not frittering away possession will help. Yep it's another be patient post and will be until Christmas next year.
 
Really surprised the club has allowed this situation with the defense to develop. It's been clear for a long time (many years) that we've needed two quality full backs and couple of top notch central defenders to go alongside Vinny.
 
citymad said:
Really surprised the club has allowed this situation with the defense to develop. It's been clear for a long time (many years) that we've needed two quality full backs and couple of top notch central defenders to go alongside Vinny.
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We have spent a fortune on central defenders over the last few seasons and still don't have a top notch one. I'm still praying Vinney comes back to full fitness.
 
Bluearmy said:
Not looking to argue fella, but the pool have had 5 clean sheets in the same time frame. Your better having the odd nightmare (like they did at Bournemouth) than consistently not having clean sheets like us, for me. But it's a game of opinions. I actually think klopp has some of the same issues we have in defence for the record. Dodgy keeper/centre halfs issues.

As for Arsenal, out of the best staring back 5's of both clubs, I'd take their keeper, Bellerin, Koscielny, and probably Monreal when you compare our two left backs over our options. So yes, I would say they are better.

The defence did start ok. It happens. Like with The first month of the previous season. But as with last season, the shortcomings are there to see. Not big enough at centre half. No pace. Full backs past their peak. Average goalkeeper. Painful saying that but it's what I feel.

We are going to have games like the weekend (had a few recently) where we don't take the chances we should. It's imperative we keep clean sheets, but I just don't see it being achievable going forward. Hope I'm very wrong and we go on a run keeping clean sheets, time will tell....
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Not looking to argue either, just trying to find out why...


Edited:
blah blah.... I just went on and on there....

Bottom line, we can win the prem with this defence. It will be possible. We compare favourably except when the media highlight ever fkin error.

Next thing for them to highlight and for us to bitch about..... number of players being rotated, that will be the next thing that Pep is doing wrong.
 
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tramazi said:
Not looking to argue either, just trying to find out why...


Edited:
blah blah.... I just went on and on there....

Bottom line, we can win the prem with this defence. It will be possible. We compare favourably except when the media highlight ever fkin error.

Next thing for them to highlight and for us to bitch about..... number of players being rotated, that will be the next thing that Pep is doing wrong.
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All about results. He wins we don't have this conversation. We get results consistently like Chelsea, Middlesboro, Southampton, Everton and Spurs, over the last few months and there gonna question his decisions. Hope your right about being able to win the league with this defence......
 
Yesterday's performance (or lack of!) confirmed in my mind that we have 3 problems namely a system that doesn't work, a lack of leadership and a number of players that just aren't good enough at defending. The problem with the system (3 at the back) is that even those who are good defensively have had their confidence badly shaken. Add to this the loss of Dinho and the problems just get worse.
I don't think Pep is going to change his tune now and will go out full steam to sign players in January. With the possible exception of Van Dyke I don't think there is anybody out there of sufficient quality. A fit VK (!) would solve a lot of issues.
 
It wouldn't matter if we had the best squad in the Universe and the best manager on the planet if Stonesy is gonna give the likes of Vardy such a wonderful assist for his hat trick. We are conceding the majority of goals not because we are flummoxed by such dazzling, swift, and superlative play, but by some rank, shitty defending that shouldn't even appear in teams who have the label 'relegation fodder'!

I turn up to the Etihad these days fully expecting to see another bizarre goal scored, the like of which I have never seen before!
 
Using a back 3 isn't instilling confidence in the defenders. I don't think the system is necessarily the issue, it's the players mentality around doing it.

Yesterday was just rank bad defending. Self inflicted errors. You can't coach that. If we are not playing the system properly then that tells me we don't have the personnel to do it.

I've always felt, that as a professional footballer, and most certainly the level we compete at, that we should be able to adapt. That we should have the quality in the squad to carry it out.

But we haven't. We have players that are nowhere near good enough. That we have spunked 70 million on 2 centre half's that are not good enough and have blindly ignored the full back positions is absolutely staggering.
 
We need reinforcements for january , but the best players like Bonucci will not be available but i would pay whatever Saints want for Van Dijk because they are now out of europe and he is the best defender in the premiership at the moment. If hes costs £35m just pay it , and get the likes of Kolarov , Cllichy out of the club or on loan , and give Angelino a few games , he seriously cannot be any worse than these two clowns
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I didn't notice us using a back 3 in preseason, so why f*** about and try this a 1/3 into the season now?

I get that Pep may not know his best defensive partnership yet but our defending has been suicidal. I think Pep needs to come to terms with the prem, that it is not a league where the opposition will be so forgiving when trying out a new system.

Ive tried not to expect too much from pep and this squad but the level of naivety is ridiculous. The system just does not work with this set of players and realistically we are not going to overhaul the back line with a set of new defenders any time soon.

I look back and see how well we were defensively set with mancini and it's all been unraveled over the years, whether it's aging players, poor buys or managers tactics. It just unacceptable, as a top club, how we've allowed this to happen.
 
jimmygrimblesboots said:
We need reinforcements for january , but the best players like Bonucci will not be available but i would pay whatever Saints want for Van Dijk because they are now out of europe and he is the best defender in the premiership at the moment. If hes costs £35m just pay it , and get the likes of Kolarov , Cllichy out of the club or on loan , and give Angelino a few games , he seriously cannot be any worse than these two clowns
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TBH the last think I would want is for our youngsters to get exposed in that system...it could have serious long term consequences for their careers.
 
Blue Hefner said:
Managala is/was shit, he is not the answer

How about we play deep and try and catch teams out the counter? Surely we aren't going to play like we did against Leicester V Arsenal and Liverpool?
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You know we will..Highline like we have Alaba and Boateng as our Cbs backed up with some non existent pressing and after some playing the ball around our defence we'll try to pass it into their goals
 
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