Defence conundrum

[Burtonblue]

Regardless of our inability to convert enough chances at the attacking end of the pitch it is glaringly obvious that our defensive line is not doing the business. It will be our downfall when it comes to winning any titles.
It seems to me that it makes no difference whether we play 3 or 4 at the back or which players play in which position. We still leak far too many goals. This uncomfortable truth suggests our defensive players are not up to the job so do we need a massive rebuild or is there hope of the likes of Kolarov, Otamendi and Clichy being turned into winners?
My view is that the players we have with the possible exception of Stones can't play the system Pep wants them to. Given this, is there any chance of bringing good players in during the January transfer window and who for that matter is out there, or would the club be better off waiting till season end when better players are more likely to move? This would probably mean jacking in our title hopes but may be better in the long term...

 

[blueinsa]

We need and have done for 2 season now 2 new full backs and at a minimum, a new CB.

That aside, Pep is currently not helping himself or the side with his constant tinkering and asking players to do things he must surely know by now they cant.

 

[domalino]

We need and have done for 2 season now 2 new full backs and at a minimum, a new CB.

That aside, Pep is currently not helping himself or the side with his constant tinkering and asking players to do things he must surely know by now they cant.

He's not asking anyone to do something they can't and tinkering shouldn't matter - they are learning his style of positional play and if everyone just did the job he's coached them to do, it doesn't matter who the other 2/3 defenders are.

 

[blueinsa]

He's not asking anyone to do something they can't and tinkering shouldn't matter - they are learning his style of positional play and if everyone just did the job he's coached them to do, it doesn't matter who the other 2/3 defenders are.

It matters if they dont have the footballing brain to take his instructions in!

 

[jaiguruKun]

Start by picking defenders who can actually defend. Sagna should be playing every game when fit.

 

[RandomJ]

Three at the back needs to stop for good. The wingers are offering hardly any defensive cover and the three end up getting isolated with a simple ball over the top.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

Maybe we should bring Mangala back from his loan spell. At least he has a bit of pace and strength.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

Three at the back should be fucked off until at least two of our defenders can defend.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I don't think that the players will be available in Jan, nor were available in the summer.

There aren't many decent defenders around, anywhere, full stop. Look at how many chances we had v Chelsea, how many Spurs had v Chelsea & how Chelsea ran through Spurs.

None of these people are any good. They are vastly overrated by some on here, but they are nothing. Cahill & Sideshow Bob ? Do me a favour.

Mourinho, master bus parker extrordinaire, has Phil Jones. He also has Eric 'the Saviour' Bailly coming back. Liverpool ? Nope.

Van Dijk is the latest 'must have', & clearly has plenty of ability. But when I used to watch him on tv every week, Jason Denayer filled all the gaps when Virgil got it wrong. Jd was the brains behind the partnership, Van Dijk the muscle. I would happily sign him, but it would be another huge gamble.

They all are. None of them are any good.

 

[blueinsa]

Three at the back needs to stop for good. The wingers are offering hardly any defensive cover and the three end up getting isolated with a simple ball over the top.

Spot on.

Come on Pep, stop fucking around now as it just isnt working fella.

 

[urban genie]

He's not asking anyone to do something they can't and tinkering shouldn't matter - they are learning his style of positional play and if everyone just did the job he's coached them to do, it doesn't matter who the other 2/3 defenders are.

Yeah but it ain't that simple as if they did as he wants any can play there, as much as he may think he is kolarov is no beckenbauer and the rest obviously struggle with us trying wingbacks when we don't have either full backs or wingers that do it well enough.

 

[cookster]

He's not asking anyone to do something they can't and tinkering shouldn't matter - they are learning his style of positional play and if everyone just did the job he's coached them to do, it doesn't matter who the other 2/3 defenders are.

So playing a such a high-line with no pace at the back is playing to our strengths? Any coach worth his salt know's we're wide open to the counter-attack, it was exploited by Chelsea yesterday and quite a few others this season.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Spot on.

Come on Pep, stop fucking around now as it just isnt working fella.

Ball over the top would be no problem for A: a player with the ability to read the game & start moving. B: a player with pace.

We have one with a bit of both: Vincent Kompany. And several with neither.

 

[blueinsa]

Ball over the top would be no problem for A: a player with the ability to read the game & start moving. B: a player with pace.

We have one with a bit of both: Vincent Kompany. And several with neither.

Exactly and why im beating the footballing brain drum.

The players we have currently dont possess the footballing brain needed to take in what Pep is asking of them and execute it.

The best defenders dont need scorching pace as they read the game and are always in the right place at the right time but as you say, very few and far in between unfortunately.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I don't think that the players will be available in Jan, nor were available in the summer.

There aren't many decent defenders around, anywhere, full stop. Look at how many chances we had v Chelsea, how many Spurs had v Chelsea & how Chelsea ran through Spurs.

None of these people are any good. They are vastly overrated by some on here, but they are nothing. Cahill & Sideshow Bob ? Do me a favour.

Mourinho, master bus parker extrordinaire, has Phil Jones. He also has Eric 'the Saviour' Bailly coming back. Liverpool ? Nope.

Van Dijk is the latest 'must have', & clearly has plenty of ability. But when I used to watch him on tv every week, Jason Denayer filled all the gaps when Virgil got it wrong. Jd was the brains behind the partnership, Van Dijk the muscle. I would happily sign him, but it would be another huge gamble.

They all are. None of them are any good.

I agree with your comments about Jason. He looked the better player when he was twinned with VVD. A back three of Stones Sagna and Denayer could have worked. Clichy, Otamendi and Kolorov will never be able to operate successfully in a back 3 in the PL. I still think Its too early to give up on a three, it brings risks but also advantages. Stones and Sagna should be nailed on to start every game imo. Maybe those two with Kolorov is the best option until we can get new quality or bring on a youngster.

 

[Marvin]

Need to try Fernando or Tosin but I doubt we will.

Defence is terrible and unless it's sorted we wont win anything. We have to score 2 goals at least to win a game.

i think taking Hart out and putting Bravo in has also disrupted the defence. He might be able to pass the ball around the back, but as many pundits have said, a keeper's main job is to keep shots out and Hart was far better at that.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Exactly and why im beating the footballing brain drum.

The players we have currently dont possess the footballing brain needed to take in what Pep is asking of them and execute it.

The best defenders dont need scorching pace as they read the game and are always in the right place at the right time but as you say, very few and far in between unfortunately.

If you look at the Chelsea goals in isolation, you can say Pep's tactics were wrong.

What you are not taking into consideration, is the possibility that if we play a different way A: we still get done for pace by a ball over the top as we have been shit for years there & Hazard ran through us like a dose of salts even from the wing in our title winning season, & B: we can't beat the likes of Costa in the air or have the strength to hold him on the ground, even if we have 10 players back & Fat Sam as manager.

If we had Fat sam as manager, he would sign some huge donkeys, to do Otamendi's job for him & park the bus.

We can't do that.

Spurs didn't beat us by counter attacking, nor did Celtic score 3 on the counter. they just expoloited shit defenders. To cover for shit defenders, we need defensive mids.

Three at the back is not the problem, nor is 4 or 5. Our defenders are shit.

 

[mrtwiceaseason]

We need and have done for 2 season now 2 new full backs and at a minimum, a new CB.

That aside, Pep is currently not helping himself or the side with his constant tinkering and asking players to do things he must surely know by now they cant.

You mean having two left backs on ,no right backs on with 2 two on the bench ,navas as right back ,one recognised centre half on .isn't the way to go ? :+)

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

Peps got to be more pragmatic with the system, you could see that ball over the top happening over and over again. Nothing got done to change it.

Big games like that Mancini would have shut up shop a goal up, Pep is on a learning curve here English football is a different animal to what he's faced before.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I agree with your comments about Jason. He looked the better player when he was twinned with VVD. A back three of Stones Sagna and Denayer could have worked. Clichy, Otamendi and Kolorov will never be able to operate successfully in a back 3 in the PL. I still think Its too early to give up on a three, it brings risks but also advantages. Stones and Sagna should be nailed on to start every game imo. Maybe those two with Kolorov is the best option until we can get new quality or bring on a youngster.

I think we need to either score at the other end, or sack Pep & bring in a boring manager.

If we score when we dominate, the pressure will go & Otamendi will con people into believing he's ok, again.