Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 2)

[Skashion]

Best defence is judged by goals conceded and cleans sheets, not tackles and shots conceded because one shot is not equal to another, ditto tackles.

 

[TGR]

So far this season I've been on a real roller-coaster with my feelings on Manuel & how the season is going to pan out. One minute I think it's all going to click & we're absolutely going to walk the league, the next I'm concerned that it's actually going to be one big clusterfuck and we'll struggle to get top 4!

I'm in a dip at the moment (hopefully posters on here are aware that I'm not usually a doom merchant!), not actually because of the games we've lost but because of how we've won the games we have & who we've played...


Newcastle - Decent performance against a team in complete disarray who were really unsettled by problems with their best player.

Hull - Frankly, we were really poor and were quite lucky.

Plzen - Decent performance against a pretty crap team who will struggle to get a sinle victory in the group.

United - Yep, excellent performance. However, results so far show that the Rags, in terms of form at the moment, are a million miles away from the best sides in the league.

Wigan - Good performance. Minimum that was expected though really against a team that is now no more than a mid-table Championship team.


As I said earlier, sorry for the negativity! Give me an hour or so and I'll be posting about how, when it all comes together, we'll do the quadruple :)

Valid points and the next two games will show where we are at present.

We play a side who has done it all has a new manager who is lauded as one the best going around and appears hungry for more success on every front on Wednesday.

We then play a side undefeated in the league , playing some exciting football without any other games to distract them from giving it their best shot on Saturday with a second to none record at our place in the recent past.

Anything but a win on Saturday and rightly so MP will be talked about in similar terms to Moyes by all and sundry.

Every game is important and the next one always more important than the previous one but the pressure on the players and MP if they don't come up trumps against Everton on Saturday will jack up another level.

Despite the games we have played to date and the stuff ups away from home and as you say the lousy performance against Hull , Saturday is our first real test of the season.

If we fall at the first hurdle we might not be talking about winning the title for too much longer and we know what is left for us after that as far as qualification for next years Chump League is concerned.

Some think there is much improvement to come from us this season and I would sincerely hope that is the case because we are currently seventh on goal difference playing like a side that deserves to be in mid table at best.

You've hit the nail on the head that there is much improvement to come overall.

I honestly believe it will. I've got faith in these players and the new manager to get it right every week, not every other week.

The title is there for the taking.

Dismal,
Mancity1 actually said:
'Some think there is much improvement to come from us this season and I would sincerely hope that is the case because we are currently seventh on goal difference playing like a side that deserves to be in mid table at best.'

He didn't say he thought there was much improvement to come from us this season.

Stop twisiting the words of others on here to support your own ideas and thinking and you your agenda.

 

[pominoz]

May i ask, what was this aftermath from Pellegrini, after the Villa game?
I seem to have missed it.

 

[BobKowalski]

If he wants to challenge in the PL he needs to re-think the balance between attack and defence. If we were anything like as solid at the back as we've been in previous years we'd be top by now. Wenger has recognised that a solid back four with enough goals is the right formula. The team with the best defence will win the title - it won't be about who scores the most goals. Looking ahead to Everton, I'd definitely play Lescott at CB to go against Lukaku.

Again, these are one of those false claims that get annoying. Watching the games, it is easy to see the improvements in the team's play. But for those who doubt it, Let the facts be your guide.

Defensively, we are conceding fewer shots per game now than we did in either the championship winning season or last season:
2013-2014: 9.2 shots per game
2012-2013: 10.2 shots per game
2011-20 12: 10.5 shots per game

Also, even though we have conceeded 2 freekicks in the first few games, we are actually fouling less now than we did in either of the past 2 seasons.
2013-2014: 10.5 fouls a game.
2012-2013: 12.4 fouls a game.
2011-2012: 11.3 fouls a game.

Tackles per game:
2013-2014: 19.3 per game
2012-2013: 18 per game
2011-2012- 18.3 a game

Reality is, we are a more cohesive team now, better at defending, and attacking, than we were in either 2011 or 2012. Granted the sample size for this season (6 games) is small to start drawing any overall conclusions. But so far, we have been improving with every game. Even the Villa game showed some improvements. Sure, mistakes were made that cost us, but improvements in play, possession and even defending was clear to see.

I wouldn't go as far as saying we are a better team now than we were in either of the previous 2 season, but we look like we will be.

As for Pellegrini, I think he is doing a very good job. But we will know how good at the end of the season.

The stats you present are interesting but not conclusive evidence that we are better defensively or in attack as you are only measuring quantum not quality. For example were the chances against us in 11/12 shots from distance and more in hope than expectation or we they clear opportunities on goal. Against Hull we presented them with 2 clear cut chances 1 was missed and 1 was disallowed. Ignoring the disallowed goal as you could argue our defence worked with the offside decision the chance that was missed was more worrying for us than say 3 shots from distance or blocked chances with the defence doing its job.

Again with fouls. Two deliberate fouls on the halfway line to prevent a dangerous attack developing ala Barry is preferable to conceding a foul just outside the box. Even with tackles you can argue this is not a good sign as it implies we are needing to win the ball back having lost control of it compared to previous seasons.

I agree that the sample size is too small to draw conclusions (even though you do conclude "we are a more cohesive team now, better at defending, and attacking, than we were in either 2011 or 2012") as you have to also factor in quality of opposition, playing conditions, natural wear and tear as the season progresses, fatigue etc all of which take a toll as the season progresses and lead to dips in performance and impact on stats.

 

[mancity1]

If he wants to challenge in the PL he needs to re-think the balance between attack and defence. If we were anything like as solid at the back as we've been in previous years we'd be top by now. Wenger has recognised that a solid back four with enough goals is the right formula. The team with the best defence will win the title - it won't be about who scores the most goals. Looking ahead to Everton, I'd definitely play Lescott at CB to go against Lukaku.

Again, these are one of those false claims that get annoying. Watching the games, it is easy to see the improvements in the team's play. But for those who doubt it, Let the facts be your guide.

Defensively, we are conceding fewer shots per game now than we did in either the championship winning season or last season:
2013-2014: 9.2 shots per game
2012-2013: 10.2 shots per game
2011-20 12: 10.5 shots per game

Also, even though we have conceeded 2 freekicks in the first few games, we are actually fouling less now than we did in either of the past 2 seasons.
2013-2014: 10.5 fouls a game.
2012-2013: 12.4 fouls a game.
2011-2012: 11.3 fouls a game.

Tackles per game:
2013-2014: 19.3 per game
2012-2013: 18 per game
2011-2012- 18.3 a game

Reality is, we are a more cohesive team now, better at defending, and attacking, than we were in either 2011 or 2012. Granted the sample size for this season (6 games) is small to start drawing any overall conclusions. But so far, we have been improving with every game. Even the Villa game showed some improvements. Sure, mistakes were made that cost us, but improvements in play, possession and even defending was clear to see.

I wouldn't go as far as saying we are a better team now than we were in either of the previous 2 season, but we look like we will be.

As for Pellegrini, I think he is doing a very good job. But we will know how good at the end of the season.

The stats you present are interesting but not conclusive evidence that we are better defensively or in attack as you are only measuring quantum not quality. For example were the chances against us in 11/12 shots from distance and more in hope than expectation or we they clear opportunities on goal. Against Hull we presented them with 2 clear cut chances 1 was missed and 1 was disallowed. Ignoring the disallowed goal as you could argue our defence worked with the offside decision the chance that was missed was more worrying for us than say 3 shots from distance or blocked chances with the defence doing its job.

Again with fouls. Two deliberate fouls on the halfway line to prevent a dangerous attack developing ala Barry is preferable to conceding a foul just outside the box. Even with tackles you can argue this is not a good sign as it implies we are needing to win the ball back having lost control of it compared to previous seasons.

I agree that the sample size is too small to draw conclusions (even though you do conclude "we are a more cohesive team now, better at defending, and attacking, than we were in either 2011 or 2012") as you have to also factor in quality of opposition, playing conditions, natural wear and tear as the season progresses, fatigue etc all of which take a toll as the season progresses and lead to dips in performance and impact on stats.

No matter how you dress it we have lost two games in our opening three away fixtures where we have had the lead on three separate occasions.

We have gifted inferior opposition points that mean we have lost 6 points that are gone for good.

Against Spurs was the only time last season we gave up a lead and came away without nothing and given what they had at stake and the quality they have on the bench and the fact our players in all seriousness had given up hope of winning the title at that juncture I am far more concerned as to where we are heading as opposed to this time last season.

I hope the players allay my concerns in the next few premiership games where we have to stamp our mark before too many teams have to slip up for us to make a decent push for the title least of all a top four spot.

 

[OB1]

The responsibility for this is with the players, they don't turn up when we are playing supposedly "lesser" sides.

This is my main concern at the moment to the point where I'm not overly bothered that we've had supposedly easier fixtures than our rivals.

Bring on the tougher games, I'm confident in the ability if our squad to get a result against anyone if they can be arsed.

Ditto.

 

[blueinsa]

Valid points and the next two games will show where we are at present.

We play a side who has done it all has a new manager who is lauded as one the best going around and appears hungry for more success on every front on Wednesday.

We then play a side undefeated in the league , playing some exciting football without any other games to distract them from giving it their best shot on Saturday with a second to none record at our place in the recent past.

Anything but a win on Saturday and rightly so MP will be talked about in similar terms to Moyes by all and sundry.

Every game is important and the next one always more important than the previous one but the pressure on the players and MP if they don't come up trumps against Everton on Saturday will jack up another level.

Despite the games we have played to date and the stuff ups away from home and as you say the lousy performance against Hull , Saturday is our first real test of the season.

If we fall at the first hurdle we might not be talking about winning the title for too much longer and we know what is left for us after that as far as qualification for next years Chump League is concerned.

Some think there is much improvement to come from us this season and I would sincerely hope that is the case because we are currently seventh on goal difference playing like a side that deserves to be in mid table at best.

You've hit the nail on the head that there is much improvement to come overall.

I honestly believe it will. I've got faith in these players and the new manager to get it right every week, not every other week.

The title is there for the taking.

Dismal,
Mancity1 actually said:
'Some think there is much improvement to come from us this season and I would sincerely hope that is the case because we are currently seventh on goal difference playing like a side that deserves to be in mid table at best.'

He didn't say he thought there was much improvement to come from us this season.

Stop twisiting the words of others on here to support your own ideas and thinking and you your agenda.

We can all read what he said, question is, have you other than "Dismal"?

Do us all a favour and take it to PM as its getting seriously fucking boring for the vast majority on here at the moment.

 

[Anonymous]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-We4YHlTUQ[/youtube]

 

[George Hannah]

BM Jury due back in on Wednesday night - no matter what the verdict I fancy we'll have a few re-trials

 

[TGR]

You've hit the nail on the head that there is much improvement to come overall.

I honestly believe it will. I've got faith in these players and the new manager to get it right every week, not every other week.

The title is there for the taking.

Dismal,
Mancity1 actually said:
'Some think there is much improvement to come from us this season and I would sincerely hope that is the case because we are currently seventh on goal difference playing like a side that deserves to be in mid table at best.'

He didn't say he thought there was much improvement to come from us this season.

Stop twisiting the words of others on here to support your own ideas and thinking and you your agenda.

We can all read what he said, question is, have you other than "Dismal"?

Do us all a favour and take it to PM as its getting seriously fucking boring for the vast majority on here at the moment.

Learn to write and spell before you post.