Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 2)

[Alex B]

Lets be honest the fans are never going to be cheering his name Tolmie, he hasnt got the character or personality to get that. He is boring and appears uninspiring to us and from what i see so far to the squad as well. I have seen several managers in my time and follow City home and away and i have a bad feeling about this one as i did with Coppell etc. Everyone around me even drunk halfwits were saying we needed a man in midfield after 10 minutes gone. It was shocking management there is no getting away from it. And the Cardiff, Stoke, Villa away trips were abysmal too. Ill give him time i wont boo i never have but i dont see this ending well.

We need a winner, this guy isnt.

Fuck me could you imagine if we had got Pep? Was extremely jealous to see him in the opposition dugout on Wednesday. What a manager he is. Worth waiting 2 years for.

 

[BobKowalski]

And another thing. There is thread on here taking the piss out of Pellers and lookalikes. And yeah its funny although no one has mentioned Burt out of 'Soap' but we are taking the piss out of the guy. Think about it and what it tells you about Pellers.

 

[mancity1]

We've been beaten by the best team in the world, having just humbled the defending PL champions and the manager isn't good enough? Fuck me, I despair.

I don't despair but I do think there's a fair few who'll have to reevaluate their thoughts on the manager in a few months time. Putting aside the obvious five or six who had made their mind's up before he was appointed, i can fully understandable that there's concern at what went down on Wednesday from many. But it's so early in the season and there is so much football to be played that writing any manager with a top squad off at this juncture if folly.

Pellegrini needs to show he can adapt when things aren't going according to plan A ... so far we've been lucky in that it was only against Bayern that this was cruelly exposed. He's got plenty of time to put the performance right and get the right results.

There may be a re-evaluation of Pellers. I don't know anyone who dislikes the guy or will have a problem if we are seeing Pellers in a different and more positive light. There is no real antipathy towards him as there was with Hughes or Mancini.

For me though its a nonsense to say you cannot judge a manager after a handful of games. I judge a manager based on the mentality he brings to the club. I knew after a handful of games that Hughes would never cut it because he isn't a leader. He didn't have the obsessive drive, focus and sheer bloodymindedness to turn the cash into silver. After a handful of games you knew Mancini had all of that and more. Khaldoon's after season chats made me smile as he praised all and sundry and all he said about Roberto was that he never met anyone with such a drive to win. What actually meant was "Roberto is a fucking pain in the arse but it works and we need it right now".

Forget tactics, style of play and the glory of finishing second. Judge them on the mentality and are they serial winners. Sometimes you can spot it in the first 45mins of a the first game. Hodgson at Liverpool. Just didn't look or feel right. Hodgson never looked comfortable and it showed on the pitch. I did wonder if Pellers and some TLC might not be a bad thing for the us at this stage in our development and 3 years of the Mancini bootcamp. Secoond game against Cardiff and chucking away a lead and conceding 3 goals and I wondered no more.

PB talks about facing the best side on the planet and what could we do apart from wring out hands and plead to give it time. Well you can fight for one. And you can give the players the framework in which to put up a fight. Do what Chelsea did against the same side. We both lost but the difference in the way we lost was like night and day. The reaction to losing was markedly different. They were dejected, frustrated, annoyed at having just lost. We said 'well what could we do?'

I am quick to make judgements and if I am wrong on Pellers then happy days. I have nothing against Pellers. I am relaxed on Pellers. He works out then great. If not well we get someone else. Shit happens.

The age old question as to if you have a lingering doubt about a good fit when do you act on those doubts.

Sometimes you know straight away even if the manager says what you hired me and now you are going to fire me in a heartbeat.

Do I let it go in the hope things will improve and give the man some leeway out of compassion or do I have to be cruel to be kind and act on those instincts straight away.

The relationship may be warm and fuzzy between all parties and you don't want to admit to yourself you got it wrong but you have to let your head rule your heart in the end.

In fairness you cannot always let the results completely dictate the decision as for all sorts of reasons the target set could still be achievable at the time of sacking ala MH but you have to make that call based on the ability of the fit to get the club where it has to go as per the owners wishlist and if that means firing MP before Christmas then so be it.

I have no idea whether MP is a good fit for the club in terms of all the criteria and kpi's he has to meet and in what timeframes.

I can only express a view based on results and performances and what he does to address any deficiencies on match days in the ensuing period.

 

[BobKowalski]

This has been an issue for a long time. How many games where we go behind do we actually go on to draw let alone win?

When we went 3-2 down at Villa and 2-1 down at Cardiff you just knew we wouldn't get anything from the games.

It's like the players think "oh shit what do we do now?"

I'm not sure it has been a problem for a long time to be honest. Maybe its because we didn't used to go behind that often but when we did we seemed to bounce back. Fulham away last season we went behind to a ludicrous penalty decision and won. WBA away we were a man down and went behind late on and went on to win it with a goal in ET from Edin. Even in the derby when we went 2-0 down we played well and fought back to 2-2 before that freekick.

Perhaps significantly these performances were earlier in the season. Once the speculation grew about Mancini being on his way out in the latter part of the season (and it had to common knowledge to the players as Rodwell admitted to doing some research on Pellers once his name started to be linked) then some of the edge seemed to disappear from the performances. I'm pretty sure Mancini also knew and thereafter everyone was just acting out their respective parts until the curtain came down.

Along with others on here the mentality of the squad is bit of an issue for me and mentality comes from the top. The culture and mentality of any organisation always reflects and comes down from the man in charge and at the moment I don't like what I see. From the back end of last season and right throughout this one we seem to have lost some steel. some edge and that is a concern as much as the tactical cockup on Wednesday. You can fix tactics. Fixing mentality is much more difficult.

I have seen BM twice this season. On Wednesday and earlier against Chelsea. The difference in approach and attitude were polar opposites. Chelsea fought and scrapped and took BM to the wire. Jose and Pep were both on the sidelines determined to extract the maximum out of their teams and beat the other. Jose v Pep is a no holds barred grudge match and it showed. With us? Pep patronised the fuck out of Pellers and BM patronised us on the pitch. It was all sweetness and light and swapping love notes. Pep didn't even break into a sweat. BM were excellent but by christ we made them look good. And whats worse we have Sergio saying there was nothing we could do. BM were just too good. Seriously just fuck off with that attitude. If thats the players reaction then we are fucked. You think Chelsea would be going round saying 'oh well nothing we could do?' You think Jose would tolerate it for a second from his players? Would he bollocks.

Is that a Mourinho in post Bob? ;-)

God no :)

And just for the record and I said this about Hughes who I couldn't stand but sackings mid season are a bad idea. Leave it the summer and plan properly if you are of a mind to do it. But if last season taught us anything keep any and all negotiations on the QT. And yes Txiki I'm looking at you.

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

I'll ask again.

Once the system is fully implemented and all the players know it like the back of their hands, how will this change us being outnumbered in midfield?

The problem Vs Bayern wasn't that we didn't play our system very well, it was that the system itself didn't work against how Bayern were lined up.

I fail to see how 6/12 months will change things so that our 2 man midfield will suddenly start battering 3/4 men midfields. Ferguson was still making this mistake in his 20th year or so, CL wise at least.

I'm not slagging MP, I have no real feelings either way at this stage.

I don't expect the system to be perfect after a few games.

I do expect a manager to be able to change things in game though to prevent us being over run.

No shame in losing to a side like Bayern but the fact we didn't even get in the game until 70 odd mins is unforgivable.

 

[TGR]

And another thing. There is thread on here taking the piss out of Pellers and lookalikes. And yeah its funny although no one has mentioned Burt out of 'Soap' but we are taking the piss out of the guy. Think about it and what it tells you about Pellers.

Do you think we will ever see him wearing a a natty blue & white scarf tied with a trendy knot on match days?

 

[Alex B]

What are the options should this continue though? Mourinho and Pep were the ones we let go for this bloke. Would our owners ever swallow their pride and take Bobby back like Roman did Jose? I dont see much else out there atm.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Lets be honest the fans are never going to be cheering his name Tolmie, he hasnt got the character or personality to get that. He is boring and appears uninspiring to us and from what i see so far to the squad as well. I have seen several managers in my time and follow City home and away and i have a bad feeling about this one as i did with Coppell etc. Everyone around me even drunk halfwits were saying we needed a man in midfield after 10 minutes gone. It was shocking management there is no getting away from it. And the Cardiff, Stoke, Villa away trips were abysmal too. Ill give him time i wont boo i never have but i dont see this ending well.

We need a winner, this guy isnt.

Fuck me could you imagine if we had got Pep? Was extremely jealous to see him in the opposition dugout on Wednesday. What a manager he is. Worth waiting 2 years for.

Whilst I agree that Pep is worth waiting for, and I believe we will, to compare Pellegrini to Coppell is taking this whole character assassination a little too far?

What character and personality did Mancini have? He is the coldest fish you would ever have the misfortune to meet.

It's not about chanting his name from minute one, that invariably comes when you put something tangible on the sideboard.

What audible support did you ever hear for Ferguson or Wenger.

In actual fact, it wasn't that long ago the South Stand disgraced themselves by screaming at Mancini, 'you don't know what your doing' because he subbed Bellamy against Birmingham.

He was bang on that day. Most on here will know I did not hold Mancini in the same affection as most did, but that was another example of sheep getting carried away, and exerting unnecessary pressure at the time.

There seems to be plenty of revisionism going on here of late. I never heard any affection towards Mark Hughes, at any time during his tenure.

Our fans have been the major influence in getting rid of managers over the last 30 years, albeit, Swales was more than complicit, but a convenient scapegoat all the same.

Pellegrini just needs to get on with the job and we need to let him.

Just as Mancini was allowed to.

It'll come good, it has to.

 

[BobKowalski]

...

Fuck me could you imagine if we had got Pep? Was extremely jealous to see him in the opposition dugout on Wednesday. What a manager he is. Worth waiting 2 years for.

I'm starting to think there is an elite level of managers and above that there is Pep. And only Pep.

 

[kara54]

I dont know. Not really convinced by him now.
Against Bayern we really received a football lesson. We were outplayed completely, could not play 2 consecutive passes.

What I did not like in that game is first his lethargic behaviour during the first half. He just sat there and looked how we were dominated, without even trying to push the players, to yell at them, to do something.

Then in the 2nd half, when we played few minutes a little better and the game began to slip away, he also did not do nothing. Just watched the game from a VIP-position.

After Clichy made that scholar error, he should have gone mad on him. But instead he teakes Dzeko and brings in Negredo. And here I went mad.
That substitute is so typical City. It is not because of Dzeko, he had not done anything. Not his fault, it was the midfield, where we were lacking manpower, Fernandino was invisible the whole game. Had he brought in Silva, Milner or some other midfielder for Dzeko, that would be ok.

But so, in City it seems, a Striker has to be substituted if he does not score, no matter what the reasons are. Mancini did that, and now Pele does it. Dzeko and Aguero both were invisible (so was also Negredo until 6 changes were done), and thet was not their fault.

And Pele should have known, that Bayern are a better team than us. He should never had started this game with two strikers.
Although, when I heard that so far, he managed to get only one draw out of 9 games against Pep, than it was also understandable.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope Pele will still change something to the better. But so far I do not see any improvements in our game.

There was this first 35min against AC Milan, there was that Newcastle games. But that was all, as far as I can remember.
And additionally, to lose those games against Cardiff and Aston Villa, where we were in front, that's all due to bad management imo.