Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 4)

[TGR]

I don't think distance covered really says much, because Sunderland sat in so much it warps the results. For example for all Bayern's dominance against us we had very similar distance covered stats, the key difference that our passing, even our short passing was horrendous in the first half in that game.

Better indicators were the number of crosses, passing the buck to Navas and Kolarov instead of guys like Yaya really taking control of the game, they were anonymous. Sunderland didn't really make sense in approach and especially the 2nd half approach and some big players didn't perform, Nasri tried to fill in for Silva but we didn't have anyone making Nasri's normal contribution to supplement Samir.

I think if Demichelis was a few years younger he might try those runs, because he's good on the ball, but in reality I think with our defensive frailties it'd be nice for our centre backs to just focus on defending. Fernandinho makes a huge difference but to fully exploit his box to box ability you need a man holding, which is why I think the diamond at Sunderland with Milner box to boxing and Garcia just holding like at Chelsea would have been far more effective.

I'm really curious as to how we set up tomorrow and I reckon AVB will try and control the midfield and if they get a foothold 3 v 2 then we could be in big trouble. I want to see a top class manager and a top class tactician tomorrow, and the fixes to our defensive problems, he's had two weeks to work on these issues and it's the last break he's had till the Spring pretty much, he needs to have sorted it.

Always interested in your perspective on games mate ... even if we don't always agree.

Regarding tomorrow, I'm not sure we have systematic defensive problems. We will play the same very high line we have played all season at home. I know this will probably anger you, but I bet a penny to a pound we set up with two forwards and the midfield two of Yaya/Dinho.

It'll be a cracking game, and as I said in the match day thread I can see it being a high scoring draw.

A draw tomorrow will in no way be good enough or acceptable.
You seem to have suddenly lowered your expectations somewhat?

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I don't think distance covered really says much, because Sunderland sat in so much it warps the results. For example for all Bayern's dominance against us we had very similar distance covered stats, the key difference that our passing, even our short passing was horrendous in the first half in that game.

Better indicators were the number of crosses, passing the buck to Navas and Kolarov instead of guys like Yaya really taking control of the game, they were anonymous. Sunderland didn't really make sense in approach and especially the 2nd half approach and some big players didn't perform, Nasri tried to fill in for Silva but we didn't have anyone making Nasri's normal contribution to supplement Samir.

I think if Demichelis was a few years younger he might try those runs, because he's good on the ball, but in reality I think with our defensive frailties it'd be nice for our centre backs to just focus on defending. Fernandinho makes a huge difference but to fully exploit his box to box ability you need a man holding, which is why I think the diamond at Sunderland with Milner box to boxing and Garcia just holding like at Chelsea would have been far more effective.

I'm really curious as to how we set up tomorrow and I reckon AVB will try and control the midfield and if they get a foothold 3 v 2 then we could be in big trouble. I want to see a top class manager and a top class tactician tomorrow, and the fixes to our defensive problems, he's had two weeks to work on these issues and it's the last break he's had till the Spring pretty much, he needs to have sorted it.

Always interested in your perspective on games mate ... even if we don't always agree.

Regarding tomorrow, I'm not sure we have systematic defensive problems. We will play the same very high line we have played all season at home. I know this will probably anger you, but I bet a penny to a pound we set up with two forwards and the midfield two of Yaya/Dinho.

It'll be a cracking game, and as I said in the match day thread I can see it being a high scoring draw.

We need to win, and therefore we can't afford to mess about.

Thus if Pelle wants to play 4-4-2, fine, but we better win and we better start keeping regular clean sheets.

He's had his settling in time, he's had ample case studies of what's good or bad about his tactics and he's had two weeks to fix things.

If we don't start getting regular wins away and really making our mark on the league then patience will begin to wear thin, because I'm just going to be honest and say that if 4-4-2 keeps failing us, which it does whichever way you look at things if we don't win games using it, then I'm going to run out of patience with him not adapting and not playing something we can win week after week with. He's been given the leeway to play a formation that isn't Soriano's preferred and he has to repay that faith by delivering results week after week now. I want to see champions after this break, not the same defensive weakness and conceding and dismal away form we had before it. It's the end of November now we need to step it up, high scoring draw won't do I'm afraid, I think with our away performances so far this season we have to have the same home record we had in the champions season (18-1-0) and a draw now is not needed.

Won't anger me mate, but I'll get frustrated if it doesn't work during the game and be pretty annoyed afterwards if we don't win, especially if it's down to "same old story" from the away archives. We need to send a statement tomorrow.

 

[blueinsa]

I don't think distance covered really says much, because Sunderland sat in so much it warps the results. For example for all Bayern's dominance against us we had very similar distance covered stats, the key difference that our passing, even our short passing was horrendous in the first half in that game.

Better indicators were the number of crosses, passing the buck to Navas and Kolarov instead of guys like Yaya really taking control of the game, they were anonymous. Sunderland didn't really make sense in approach and especially the 2nd half approach and some big players didn't perform, Nasri tried to fill in for Silva but we didn't have anyone making Nasri's normal contribution to supplement Samir.

I think if Demichelis was a few years younger he might try those runs, because he's good on the ball, but in reality I think with our defensive frailties it'd be nice for our centre backs to just focus on defending. Fernandinho makes a huge difference but to fully exploit his box to box ability you need a man holding, which is why I think the diamond at Sunderland with Milner box to boxing and Garcia just holding like at Chelsea would have been far more effective.

I'm really curious as to how we set up tomorrow and I reckon AVB will try and control the midfield and if they get a foothold 3 v 2 then we could be in big trouble. I want to see a top class manager and a top class tactician tomorrow, and the fixes to our defensive problems, he's had two weeks to work on these issues and it's the last break he's had till the Spring pretty much, he needs to have sorted it.

Always interested in your perspective on games mate ... even if we don't always agree.

Regarding tomorrow, I'm not sure we have systematic defensive problems. We will play the same very high line we have played all season at home. I know this will probably anger you, but I bet a penny to a pound we set up with two forwards and the midfield two of Yaya/Dinho.

It'll be a cracking game, and as I said in the match day thread I can see it being a high scoring draw.

We need to win, and therefore we can't afford to mess about.

Thus if Pelle wants to play 4-4-2, fine, but we better win and we better start keeping regular clean sheets.

He's had his settling in time, he's had ample case studies of what's good or bad about his tactics and he's had two weeks to fix things.

If we don't start getting regular wins away and really making our mark on the league then patience will begin to wear thin, because I'm just going to be honest and say that if 4-4-2 keeps failing us, which it does whichever way you look at things if we don't win games using it, then I'm going to run out of patience with him not adapting and not playing something we can win week after week with. He's been given the leeway to play a formation that isn't Soriano's preferred and he has to repay that faith by delivering results week after week now. I want to see champions after this break, not the same defensive weakness and conceding and dismal away form we had before it. It's the end of November now we need to step it up, high scoring draw won't do I'm afraid, I think with our away performances so far this season we have to have the same home record we had in the champions season (18-1-0) and a draw now is not needed.

Won't anger me mate, but I'll get frustrated if it doesn't work during the game and be pretty annoyed afterwards if we don't win, especially if it's down to "same old story" from the away archives. We need to send a statement tomorrow.

Agree completely. Mistakes are fine and part of the game and life but you have to show you have learnt from them and stop making them time and time again.

I'm confident we have the right man in place but my confidence counts for nothing and its down to him and his players to prove it.

 

[Anonymous]

We need to win, and therefore we can't afford to mess about.

Thus if Pelle wants to play 4-4-2, fine, but we better win and we better start keeping regular clean sheets.

He's had his settling in time, he's had ample case studies of what's good or bad about his tactics and he's had two weeks to fix things.

If we don't start getting regular wins away and really making our mark on the league then patience will begin to wear thin, because I'm just going to be honest and say that if 4-4-2 keeps failing us, which it does whichever way you look at things if we don't win games using it, then I'm going to run out of patience with him not adapting and not playing something we can win week after week with. He's been given the leeway to play a formation that isn't Soriano's preferred and he has to repay that faith by delivering results week after week now. I want to see champions after this break, not the same defensive weakness and conceding and dismal away form we had before it. It's the end of November now we need to step it up, high scoring draw won't do I'm afraid, I think with our away performances so far this season we have to have the same home record we had in the champions season (18-1-0) and a draw now is not needed.

Won't anger me mate, but I'll get frustrated if it doesn't work during the game and be pretty annoyed afterwards if we don't win, especially if it's down to "same old story" from the away archives. We need to send a statement tomorrow.

I don't disagree that the only way to justify 442 with such a high line is if it's effective and it works. Especially against top teams, and I think Spurs under AVB are just that. Also agree that a point tomorrow isn't good enough by any stretch. I just have a niggly feeling that Spurs are going to put in a performance of the season. I'm glad Eriksen's out for them.

The last couple of victories i've predicted have turned out very badly for me. Maybe my luck will turn if I go with a draw tomorrow ... :)

 

[OB1]

Urgency shouldn't come down to missing a player, every player should have that desire to work their arses off every game and really put a shift in.

Oh don't get me wrong - i'm not saying that it's acceptable - but I do feel like Vinny tends to have that capacity to make a surging run forward and inject a bit of tempo into our play. Similar to Yaya really in that respect.

I'd love to see stats for distance covered by players in say our away game at Sunderland in comparison to say Stoke.

I don't think distance covered really says much, because Sunderland sat in so much it warps the results. For example for all Bayern's dominance against us we had very similar distance covered stats, the key difference that our passing, even our short passing was horrendous in the first half in that game.

Better indicators were the number of crosses, passing the buck to Navas and Kolarov instead of guys like Yaya really taking control of the game, they were anonymous. Sunderland didn't really make sense in approach and especially the 2nd half approach and some big players didn't perform, Nasri tried to fill in for Silva but we didn't have anyone making Nasri's normal contribution to supplement Samir.

I think if Demichelis was a few years younger he might try those runs, because he's good on the ball, but in reality I think with our defensive frailties it'd be nice for our centre backs to just focus on defending. Fernandinho makes a huge difference but to fully exploit his box to box ability you need a man holding, which is why I think the diamond at Sunderland with Milner box to boxing and Garcia just holding like at Chelsea would have been far more effective.

I'm really curious as to how we set up tomorrow and I reckon AVB will try and control the midfield and if they get a foothold 3 v 2 then we could be in big trouble. I want to see a top class manager and a top class tactician tomorrow, and the fixes to our defensive problems, he's had two weeks to work on these issues and it's the last break he's had till the Spring pretty much, he needs to have sorted it.

He's not had two weeks to work with the players.

 

[OB1]

North west hack here..

Pellegrini umfortunately gave spurs all the ammo they need in what he said last week.
He's done the teamtalk for Spurs..
As I said..an uninspiring dour manager who is a yes man to the board.
Still I will support him and the team as I always do with my family tomorrow.

It's the worst cliché in football the whole "He's done the team talk for them"
What he said was right, he wasn't disrespectful, just answered a question honestly. I agree with him, Spurs will be lucky to finish top 4, they certainly won't be challenging for the title.
He does come across as dour, i'll give you that, but it's what's said and done with the players that counts, not how the gobshite press perceive him.

He may as well have said spurs are shit..because in essence that is how avb will put it over to his team.
3pts is a must tomorrow,but then again it was in the four aways we have lost.

Oh FFS, if Spurs need any extra motivation for this game from some innocuous Pellegrini comment, there's something wrong with them. And AVB if that is what he needs to resort to to get a response from his players.

You are just looking for any excuse to have a dig at Pellegrini and it really is sad.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Oh don't get me wrong - i'm not saying that it's acceptable - but I do feel like Vinny tends to have that capacity to make a surging run forward and inject a bit of tempo into our play. Similar to Yaya really in that respect.

I'd love to see stats for distance covered by players in say our away game at Sunderland in comparison to say Stoke.

I don't think distance covered really says much, because Sunderland sat in so much it warps the results. For example for all Bayern's dominance against us we had very similar distance covered stats, the key difference that our passing, even our short passing was horrendous in the first half in that game.

Better indicators were the number of crosses, passing the buck to Navas and Kolarov instead of guys like Yaya really taking control of the game, they were anonymous. Sunderland didn't really make sense in approach and especially the 2nd half approach and some big players didn't perform, Nasri tried to fill in for Silva but we didn't have anyone making Nasri's normal contribution to supplement Samir.

I think if Demichelis was a few years younger he might try those runs, because he's good on the ball, but in reality I think with our defensive frailties it'd be nice for our centre backs to just focus on defending. Fernandinho makes a huge difference but to fully exploit his box to box ability you need a man holding, which is why I think the diamond at Sunderland with Milner box to boxing and Garcia just holding like at Chelsea would have been far more effective.

I'm really curious as to how we set up tomorrow and I reckon AVB will try and control the midfield and if they get a foothold 3 v 2 then we could be in big trouble. I want to see a top class manager and a top class tactician tomorrow, and the fixes to our defensive problems, he's had two weeks to work on these issues and it's the last break he's had till the Spring pretty much, he needs to have sorted it.

He's not had two weeks to work with the players.

He's had 2 weeks to go "this is what's wrong, this is what we're going to do and this is how I'm changing to stop the problems".

He's also had 2 weeks to do all his homework.

 

[TGR]

I don't think distance covered really says much, because Sunderland sat in so much it warps the results. For example for all Bayern's dominance against us we had very similar distance covered stats, the key difference that our passing, even our short passing was horrendous in the first half in that game.

Better indicators were the number of crosses, passing the buck to Navas and Kolarov instead of guys like Yaya really taking control of the game, they were anonymous. Sunderland didn't really make sense in approach and especially the 2nd half approach and some big players didn't perform, Nasri tried to fill in for Silva but we didn't have anyone making Nasri's normal contribution to supplement Samir.

I think if Demichelis was a few years younger he might try those runs, because he's good on the ball, but in reality I think with our defensive frailties it'd be nice for our centre backs to just focus on defending. Fernandinho makes a huge difference but to fully exploit his box to box ability you need a man holding, which is why I think the diamond at Sunderland with Milner box to boxing and Garcia just holding like at Chelsea would have been far more effective.

I'm really curious as to how we set up tomorrow and I reckon AVB will try and control the midfield and if they get a foothold 3 v 2 then we could be in big trouble. I want to see a top class manager and a top class tactician tomorrow, and the fixes to our defensive problems, he's had two weeks to work on these issues and it's the last break he's had till the Spring pretty much, he needs to have sorted it.

He's not had two weeks to work with the players.

He's had 2 weeks to go "this is what's wrong, this is what we're going to do and this is how I'm changing to stop the problems".

He's also had 2 weeks to do all his homework.

The tone on this thread has most certainly changed!
Before the break we were going to win the league, a domestic trophy and make the last 8 of the CL.
Now excuses are being put forward for tomorrow before are even anywhere near the kick off.
Me thinks the penny has started to drop...

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

He's not had two weeks to work with the players.

He's had 2 weeks to go "this is what's wrong, this is what we're going to do and this is how I'm changing to stop the problems".

He's also had 2 weeks to do all his homework.

The tone on this thread has most certainly changed!
Before the break we were going to win the league, a domestic trophy and make the last 8 of the CL.
Now excuses are being put forward for tomorrow before are even anywhere near the kick off.
Me thinks the penny has started to drop...

It's natural to be concerned when you've come off a performance like Sunderland, a good win tomorrow will restore some confidence.<br /><br />-- Nov 23rd, '13, 15:17 --<br /><br />

He's not had two weeks to work with the players.

He's had 2 weeks to go "this is what's wrong, this is what we're going to do and this is how I'm changing to stop the problems".

He's also had 2 weeks to do all his homework.

The tone on this thread has most certainly changed!
Before the break we were going to win the league, a domestic trophy and make the last 8 of the CL.
Now excuses are being put forward for tomorrow before are even anywhere near the kick off.
Me thinks the penny has started to drop...

It's natural to be concerned when you've come off a performance like Sunderland, a good win tomorrow will restore some confidence.

 

[OB1]

I don't think distance covered really says much, because Sunderland sat in so much it warps the results. For example for all Bayern's dominance against us we had very similar distance covered stats, the key difference that our passing, even our short passing was horrendous in the first half in that game.

Better indicators were the number of crosses, passing the buck to Navas and Kolarov instead of guys like Yaya really taking control of the game, they were anonymous. Sunderland didn't really make sense in approach and especially the 2nd half approach and some big players didn't perform, Nasri tried to fill in for Silva but we didn't have anyone making Nasri's normal contribution to supplement Samir.

I think if Demichelis was a few years younger he might try those runs, because he's good on the ball, but in reality I think with our defensive frailties it'd be nice for our centre backs to just focus on defending. Fernandinho makes a huge difference but to fully exploit his box to box ability you need a man holding, which is why I think the diamond at Sunderland with Milner box to boxing and Garcia just holding like at Chelsea would have been far more effective.

I'm really curious as to how we set up tomorrow and I reckon AVB will try and control the midfield and if they get a foothold 3 v 2 then we could be in big trouble. I want to see a top class manager and a top class tactician tomorrow, and the fixes to our defensive problems, he's had two weeks to work on these issues and it's the last break he's had till the Spring pretty much, he needs to have sorted it.

He's not had two weeks to work with the players.

He's had 2 weeks to go "this is what's wrong, this is what we're going to do and this is how I'm changing to stop the problems".

He's also had 2 weeks to do all his homework.

He reviews what went wrong with the players after every game. He can do all the thinking in the world, and I am sure he does plenty, but translating what he wants effectively onto the pitch is about working with the players and that is ongoing. In terms of working specifically for this match with the players, he has had limited time, regardless of how prepared he is. I expect him to be well prepared for every game.

Anyway, you may well be disappointed again because he clearly believes in his way of playing and he has said in the past that he focuses on his team in most of what he does and not on his opponents. Could be tough for those supporters that don't like that approach.