Discuss Pellegrini....

[robbieh]

I've not seen any posters with any agendas against Pellegrini.

...says the man who started a thread titled "Pellikeegan" straight after the game.

pmsl.

Earlier in the season I made the Newcastle connection myself. Not unreasonable if you have an open mind. They like us played fantastic football, scored loads but ended up coming second to a team that was more streetwise.

If a squad containing Yaya, Kun, Silva, Nasri, Navas, Negredo, Kompany, Zabaleta, Hart, Fernandinho and Jovetic fails to win the league I imagine more than Shaleumstash will be making the comparison.

That said there is a long way to go. Hopefully the team and manager can do it.

 

[Stoned Rose]

Some pretty bizarre reading of Monday's game on this thread. Some of it perhaps fueled by the media / press narrative of Mourinho's greatness in stopping City's free scoring machine.

I see it differently. We were woefully under strength (Fernandinho, Nasri and Aguero all out) and had to put out a team that revolved around a 2 man midfield consisting of an ageing centre back (who hasn't played in midfield for years) with limited pace and stamina and Yaya who can't list defensive ability among his greatest attributes.

Initially in the post match I moaned about this selection but ultimately there really wasn't much else MP could've done.

We were without Fernandinho. His ability to quietly dictate the pace and direction of games, his patrolling of the danger areas and exploitable spaces, his ability to move the ball quickly and with purpose, his ability to intercept everything and anything and most importantly his ability to 'babysit' Yaya and cover his back when something goes wrong.

We were without Nasri's retention, 'ghosting', defence splitting passing and (newly acquired) determination. We also missed his 'link' with partner in crime Silva (meaning Sliva had a lot more to do to create situations and also made it much easier for Luiz to man mark him).

We were without Aguero's fear factor, his movement, his dropping into the hole, his ability to beat a man and create space and tellingly his unrivalled ability to score from fuck all.

3 exceptionally important cogs in MP's engine.

We were therefore pretty much there for the taking.

Yes Chelsea stepped up and played out of their skins sticking rigidly to their strategy and well done to them for that. Yes they created chances and yes they hit the woodwork. This isn't really anything 'new' or exceptional. Loads of teams have created chances to score (and scored) against us. It doesn't make them geniuses.

All that said, we still created 26 opportunities to shoot at their goal. Within these 26 shots on goal many of them were very very narrow misses or 'scrambles' that on another day could/would'e gone in.

Even with MPs machine so cruelly handicapped we still had more than enough about us to trouble fuck out of them. They were defending for their fucking lives that last 20 minutes. They were dogged as fuck but also had a very fucking big slice of luck (as they also did at their gaff).

For me it was a great time for them to play us and all the cards fell for them. Bit like fighting Tyson if he had a fractured wrist.

Much more this than any 'greatness' from Mourinho.

 

[Dribble]

You say all this and then happen to forget we were missing Aguero, Fernandinho and Nasri for the Chelsea game, haha it's a funny old thread this one. Don't be so precious over Mancini if you care so much then you'll be happy to know I'm very pro-bob. You bringing up the constant comparisons with Mancini only goes to further your own agenda as opposed to anything I've brought up. Simply stating that the results were much better than last season has nothing to do with which manager was at the helm, only the points we've picked up from these fixtures and how it furthers our chances in the league. I think it's fair to add that any City fan watching these games was more than satisfied with the manner of which we've played these games though, no? Of course any sane fan would prefer 18 points and six 1-0's, but that's not the Pelligrini way and if we set up in a way that would enable these kind of results, you're then leaving yourself open to coming away with six 0-0's. I'm happy we play this way because I think we're better than any team in this league.

I'd be eager to know why you think I've forgotten this?

Me constantly bringing it up? I seldom contribute to this thread because it's apt to end up being a bicker fest. All of them recently which have descended into it, and which were subsequently locked, have done so without any posts from me. For the most part I've steered well well clear of the bickering that has characterised this forum since the start of the season. As far as I'm concerned, whatever doubts I have about Pellegrini, and he's done a lot to assuage them - and all due credit to him because he's done a good job, he's the manager of the club I support, and therefore I support him. That is what I think being a fan is, you can express doubts and criticisms, but you support your players and manager. I also thought plenty of the criticism earlier in the season was fucking brainless, especially the "we'll be lucky to make top four" nonsense. So basically I think you trying to claim I'm pushing an agenda is wrong. I've been consciously staying away from this shit and I think that could be objectively demonstrated if you look through the locked threads. That was in fact why I said let's stay away from this area. I didn't see the need for you to defend Pellegrini by referring to Mancini's results. If this was a thread other than a Pellegrini thread, I might see how you can argue it's not about Mancini but I don't see you can talk up Pellegrini's style by attacking Mancini's without attacking Mancini himself.

Another issue I have is that you cherry-picked the results from last season as though they were indicative of the superiority of a more attacking style. This is just not true. I highly doubt we're going to get 89 points this season, yet we did when we won the title because we were better defensively. When Chelsea got their record 95 points, Chelsea only scored 72 goals (just 4 more goals than we've got after 24 games this season!) because they only conceded 15 goals (12 fewer goals than we've conceded this season with 14 left to play). A defensive approach can work. As can an attacking approach - as long as we don't concede too many (above 1.2 goals per game means you don't win titles). I just don't see the need to put one down (and by doing so, effectively condemning the manager for utilising that style as well) to big up the other. Mancini's style brought us trophies and hopefully Pellegrini's will as well. Ultimately I want the best for the club and whether it's brought about by more attacking or more defending is incidental to me.

Bravo........ Excellent post.

 

[silvasleftleg]

I don't think anyone's slagging Pellers off as such rather than slagging his apparent acceptance of the way the game was panning out on Monday without making any effort to alter things .
I appreciate that we had injuries to key players and half fit replacements but to do nothing in particular to save a vital point was disappointing.
I hate saying it , but the old pisscan was a master of this art , and the number of times he pulled games around with subs or tactical changes is spectacular,and with some pretty ordinary players. If he saw weaknesses being exploited he did something about it. He also made his own luck by being bold and flexible.
Not playing our usual game in one match does not mean that we cannot resume that style in the next game, when circumstances are different-horses for courses if you like

What the shit are you talking about ? MP made changes , albeit after 60 minutes.

Mancini was completely out-mastered at the Bernabue. Do you remember how we parked the bus ? Is that what you want to see every week ? A parked bus ?

When Mourinho's Real Madrid came to the Etihad, one of their men got sent off .. Mancini couldn't even take advantage of that . Sorry, but Mancini was not a tactical guru. He was an underachiever. For the first time in our history MP got us into the last 16 of CL. We are still in all competitions. This is his first season here. Mancini is not fit to lace MP's shoes. Mancini will never come back to manage this club. Just forget him and move on .

What the shit I am talking about is this .
Did you see a problem with the set up on Monday before 60mins were up?

There was no problem with the set up. There was a problem with several players who chose to waste the chances that were created for them. There was also problems at the back. Nastasic and Toure were sleeping and Silva was not tracking back. None of this is Pellegrini's fault.

 

[steviemc]

What the shit are you talking about ? MP made changes , albeit after 60 minutes.

Mancini was completely out-mastered at the Bernabue. Do you remember how we parked the bus ? Is that what you want to see every week ? A parked bus ?

When Mourinho's Real Madrid came to the Etihad, one of their men got sent off .. Mancini couldn't even take advantage of that . Sorry, but Mancini was not a tactical guru. He was an underachiever. For the first time in our history MP got us into the last 16 of CL. We are still in all competitions. This is his first season here. Mancini is not fit to lace MP's shoes. Mancini will never come back to manage this club. Just forget him and move on .

What the shit I am talking about is this .
Did you see a problem with the set up on Monday before 60mins were up?

There was no problem with the set up. There was a problem with several players who chose to waste the chances that were created for them. There was also problems at the back. Nastasic and Toure were sleeping and Silva was not tracking back. None of this is Pellegrini's fault.

Exactly this. 26 chances created, 40 crosses made with Chelsea having to make 62 clearances. That doesn't look like a set-up problem to me. Other than not scoring there's very little else we can complain about.

 

[King Geedorah]

Here's what it boils down to for me.

Pellegrini obviously has a fantastic vision and the players believe in it. If anyone is denying that then I despair.

I'm just not sure how sustainable it is at our current level of ambition. If we lose quality on the ball the system breaks down going forward, if we drop intensity the system breaks defensively. The only way to remedy this is to have 22 very talented players. There's no-one who can just slot into the team and 'do a job', because as soon as the overall technical ability drops below a certain critical mass we just look clueless.

The only way I see it working is we drop the ambition- by that I mean fuck off the domestic cups for our best players and stop being so vain chasing the glorious win every game.

If our second team isn't fit enough to play in the cups then we should bite the bullet and play youngsters. Fernandinho, Toure, Aguero, Kompany etc should be playing no part. The other part is to sometimes realise 2-0 is good enough and slow the pace down.

If Pellegrini doesn't see that then we're going to be in for a frustrating few years.

Anyone still pining for that wanker Mancini needs to have a good look at themselves. It's evident there was a major problem with his man management and everybody at City needs to pull together in the right direction as the world wants us to fail. The fact there's no negative stories coming out anymore speaks volumes. It's much more pleasurable this season and Chelsea was just one of those things.

Uncalled for.

 

[cleavers]

Some pretty bizarre reading of Monday's game on this thread. Some of it perhaps fueled by the media / press narrative of Mourinho's greatness in stopping City's free scoring machine.

I see it differently. We were woefully under strength (Fernandinho, Nasri and Aguero all out) and had to put out a team that revolved around a 2 man midfield consisting of an ageing centre back (who hasn't played in midfield for years) with limited pace and stamina and Yaya who can't list defensive ability among his greatest attributes.

Initially in the post match I moaned about this selection but ultimately there really wasn't much else MP could've done.

We were without Fernandinho. His ability to quietly dictate the pace and direction of games, his patrolling of the danger areas and exploitable spaces, his ability to move the ball quickly and with purpose, his ability to intercept everything and anything and most importantly his ability to 'babysit' Yaya and cover his back when something goes wrong.

We were without Nasri's retention, 'ghosting', defence splitting passing and (newly acquired) determination. We also missed his 'link' with partner in crime Silva (meaning Sliva had a lot more to do to create situations and also made it much easier for Luiz to man mark him).

We were without Aguero's fear factor, his movement, his dropping into the hole, his ability to beat a man and create space and tellingly his unrivalled ability to score from fuck all.

3 exceptionally important cogs in MP's engine.

We were therefore pretty much there for the taking.

Yes Chelsea stepped up and played out of their skins sticking rigidly to their strategy and well done to them for that. Yes they created chances and yes they hit the woodwork. This isn't really anything 'new' or exceptional. Loads of teams have created chances to score (and scored) against us. It doesn't make them geniuses.

All that said, we still created 26 opportunities to shoot at their goal. Within these 26 shots on goal many of them were very very narrow misses or 'scrambles' that on another day could/would'e gone in.

Even with MPs machine so cruelly handicapped we still had more than enough about us to trouble fuck out of them. They were defending for their fucking lives that last 20 minutes. They were dogged as fuck but also had a very fucking big slice of luck (as they also did at their gaff).

For me it was a great time for them to play us and all the cards fell for them. Bit like fighting Tyson if he had a fractured wrist.

Much more this than any 'greatness' from Mourinho.

Another good post, and how I think the majority saw it. It was a major disappointment for sure, but not a hammering, or a masterclass that some in the media (the same one most claim have an agenda) claimed.

The most important thing now, is how we react, I think we'll react well on and off the pitch.

 

[jollylescott]

Some pretty bizarre reading of Monday's game on this thread. Some of it perhaps fueled by the media / press narrative of Mourinho's greatness in stopping City's free scoring machine.

I see it differently. We were woefully under strength (Fernandinho, Nasri and Aguero all out) and had to put out a team that revolved around a 2 man midfield consisting of an ageing centre back (who hasn't played in midfield for years) with limited pace and stamina and Yaya who can't list defensive ability among his greatest attributes.

Initially in the post match I moaned about this selection but ultimately there really wasn't much else MP could've done.

We were without Fernandinho. His ability to quietly dictate the pace and direction of games, his patrolling of the danger areas and exploitable spaces, his ability to move the ball quickly and with purpose, his ability to intercept everything and anything and most importantly his ability to 'babysit' Yaya and cover his back when something goes wrong.

We were without Nasri's retention, 'ghosting', defence splitting passing and (newly acquired) determination. We also missed his 'link' with partner in crime Silva (meaning Sliva had a lot more to do to create situations and also made it much easier for Luiz to man mark him).

We were without Aguero's fear factor, his movement, his dropping into the hole, his ability to beat a man and create space and tellingly his unrivalled ability to score from fuck all.

3 exceptionally important cogs in MP's engine.

We were therefore pretty much there for the taking.

Yes Chelsea stepped up and played out of their skins sticking rigidly to their strategy and well done to them for that. Yes they created chances and yes they hit the woodwork. This isn't really anything 'new' or exceptional. Loads of teams have created chances to score (and scored) against us. It doesn't make them geniuses.

All that said, we still created 26 opportunities to shoot at their goal. Within these 26 shots on goal many of them were very very narrow misses or 'scrambles' that on another day could/would'e gone in.

Even with MPs machine so cruelly handicapped we still had more than enough about us to trouble fuck out of them. They were defending for their fucking lives that last 20 minutes. They were dogged as fuck but also had a very fucking big slice of luck (as they also did at their gaff).

For me it was a great time for them to play us and all the cards fell for them. Bit like fighting Tyson if he had a fractured wrist.

Much more this than any 'greatness' from Mourinho.

Excellent post. That is called perspective.

 

[robmc]

Some pretty bizarre reading of Monday's game on this thread. Some of it perhaps fueled by the media / press narrative of Mourinho's greatness in stopping City's free scoring machine.

I see it differently. We were woefully under strength (Fernandinho, Nasri and Aguero all out) and had to put out a team that revolved around a 2 man midfield consisting of an ageing centre back (who hasn't played in midfield for years) with limited pace and stamina and Yaya who can't list defensive ability among his greatest attributes.

Initially in the post match I moaned about this selection but ultimately there really wasn't much else MP could've done.

We were without Fernandinho. His ability to quietly dictate the pace and direction of games, his patrolling of the danger areas and exploitable spaces, his ability to move the ball quickly and with purpose, his ability to intercept everything and anything and most importantly his ability to 'babysit' Yaya and cover his back when something goes wrong.

We were without Nasri's retention, 'ghosting', defence splitting passing and (newly acquired) determination. We also missed his 'link' with partner in crime Silva (meaning Sliva had a lot more to do to create situations and also made it much easier for Luiz to man mark him).

We were without Aguero's fear factor, his movement, his dropping into the hole, his ability to beat a man and create space and tellingly his unrivalled ability to score from fuck all.

3 exceptionally important cogs in MP's engine.

We were therefore pretty much there for the taking.

Yes Chelsea stepped up and played out of their skins sticking rigidly to their strategy and well done to them for that. Yes they created chances and yes they hit the woodwork. This isn't really anything 'new' or exceptional. Loads of teams have created chances to score (and scored) against us. It doesn't make them geniuses.

All that said, we still created 26 opportunities to shoot at their goal. Within these 26 shots on goal many of them were very very narrow misses or 'scrambles' that on another day could/would'e gone in.

Even with MPs machine so cruelly handicapped we still had more than enough about us to trouble fuck out of them. They were defending for their fucking lives that last 20 minutes. They were dogged as fuck but also had a very fucking big slice of luck (as they also did at their gaff).

For me it was a great time for them to play us and all the cards fell for them. Bit like fighting Tyson if he had a fractured wrist.

Much more this than any 'greatness' from Mourinho.

Crackin post. Extremely valid points!

 

[Bodicoteblue]

What the shit are you talking about ? MP made changes , albeit after 60 minutes.

Mancini was completely out-mastered at the Bernabue. Do you remember how we parked the bus ? Is that what you want to see every week ? A parked bus ?

When Mourinho's Real Madrid came to the Etihad, one of their men got sent off .. Mancini couldn't even take advantage of that . Sorry, but Mancini was not a tactical guru. He was an underachiever. For the first time in our history MP got us into the last 16 of CL. We are still in all competitions. This is his first season here. Mancini is not fit to lace MP's shoes. Mancini will never come back to manage this club. Just forget him and move on .

What the shit I am talking about is this .
Did you see a problem with the set up on Monday before 60mins were up?

There was no problem with the set up. There was a problem with several players who chose to waste the chances that were created for them. There was also problems at the back. Nastasic and Toure were sleeping and Silva was not tracking back. None of this is Pellegrini's fault.

We had 2 centre backs - one of whom is one of the best footballers , and one of the best leaders we will see ,up against 1 ageing striker while a struggling would be converted centre back was chasing Hazard's shadow around all night ( even his shadow was too goo for him) that was a situation that needed remedying . I think , I may be wrong , we'll never know, that Vinnie might have done a better job.
It was apparent to me and many others that Beast was woefully out of touch/ unfit and should have been hauled off at half time at least. We saw that when he did make a change with Jovetic coming on we were much livelier and more dangerous. With that change andVK stepping forward into midfield I think we could have achieved a lot more .

By the way - I like the idea of players "choosing " to waste chances
I'm not saying any of this is directly Pellegrini's fault , but as Harry S Truman had it "the buck stops here"
You take the credit for good performances - you take the crap for the bad ones. I am sure Pellers would agree with that.