Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini 2014/15 (continued)

[flb]

Well if they fire Mancini after a bad season, then Pelle wins the double, then has a bad season that gets him fired, that will look clearly like one bad seoason and you are out. Many of the football world dont go into details like Mancini created a bad dressing room etc , it will be seen especially by the media that one bad season and you are out.

But what if the new manager doesnt start with a trophy but with a bad season? With quite a big rebuilding of the squad, gel time will be needed probably to some extent while rivals wont slow down when it comes to improtant transfers.

But to keep Pelle just because what they will say about our stability otherwise well decision needs to be made what more important, the image or the actual improvement.

Its kinda funny because vast majority of football supporters have extremely bad opinion about City, mercenary, oil money, bought success, buy expensive players, turn them into flops, sell low price, not giving youuth a chance thats the image we have. The more success we will have the more they will hate our Arabs...
It wont be many better imo even if we will have break even seasons after break even seasons and finally a manager that will bring trough youth players.

Most of the time Abu Dhabi gets mentioned trough us in press its not look what they have done for City, how great all of this is, but moneybags, Oil club, FFP cheater Arabs etc...

The only time our image will change is when we have a good crop of home grown players making the first team and then the National team. Its what I personally am looking forward to the most-then our image will change to that of a club with local lads making good through opportunity.

I agree 100 percent. United have had this for years. Young lads synonymous with the club playing for the national team and becoming cult national heroes or at least portraid that way. Eg beckem,Rooney, Charlton, neville.

Then you factor in that eventually these lads grow up retire and more often than not infest the media either printed press or pundits. It's no wonder it comes across as bias at the moment.

We should be starting by putting a couple in the squad, peoples opinions would soon change

 

[Shaelumstash]

That's equally silly. Hughes-less wins this debate hands down.

If Pellegrini ain't good enough than we've not had a good enough manager since the takeover full stop.

It depends what you mean by "good enough". My biggest problem with Pellegrini is how we defend as a team. The ultra-attack style is great to watch when it comes off as it did last season, with first Negredo and then Dzeko hitting top form alongside Aguero but it masked the same defensive deficiencies that we've seen this season - only this time around Negredo has gone and Dzeko's form has plummeted and we're probably 20 goals short of being in title contention. It isn't realistic in a league like the Prem to be having to score 100 goals a season to have a serious chance of winning the title. I'd prefer manager who can get the balance right.

We're the top scorers in the league mate. The problem has been them going in at the other end, and that is all to do with the manager, and the football philosophy dictated to him by the directors. The same group of defenders who were the best defence in the league for 3 seasons running, have had a 32 million pound defender added to it, and are now a shambles.

It's not that the players can't defend, it's that the manager doesn't know how to set up a defence, and the directors assume we can just roll over teams like Barca do in Spain. The Premier League is a rather different animal, however.

 

[theres only one carlito]

The only time our image will change is when we have a good crop of home grown players making the first team and then the National team. Its what I personally am looking forward to the most-then our image will change to that of a club with local lads making good through opportunity.

I agree 100 percent. United have had this for years. Young lads synonymous with the club playing for the national team and becoming cult national heroes or at least portraid that way. Eg beckem,Rooney, Charlton, neville.

Then you factor in that eventually these lads grow up retire and more often than not infest the media either printed press or pundits. It's no wonder it comes across as bias at the moment.

We should be starting by putting a couple in the squad, peoples opinions would soon change

Again I agree.

It's where I think chelsea really missed a trick.
They should of focused more on bringing young English players of national pedigree through their ranks much earlier on in the process. Terry was a perfect example but they failed to follow that up. It's why I think its not allowed their brand to grow. As damocles suggested. Our owners I think have cottoned on to this and as a result invested in the CFA early doors. Three or four good players in the national team and the route to acceptance.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I agree 100 percent. United have had this for years. Young lads synonymous with the club playing for the national team and becoming cult national heroes or at least portraid that way. Eg beckem,Rooney, Charlton, neville.

Then you factor in that eventually these lads grow up retire and more often than not infest the media either printed press or pundits. It's no wonder it comes across as bias at the moment.

We should be starting by putting a couple in the squad, peoples opinions would soon change

It's where I think chelsea really missed a trick.
They should of focused more on bringing young English players of national pedigree through their ranks much earlier on in the process. Terry was a perfect example but they failed to follow that up. It's why I think its not allowed their brand to grow. As damocles suggested. Our owners I think have cottoned on to this and as a result invested in the CFA early doors. Three or four good players in the national team and the route to acceptance.

I don't believe it will make a difference. We were still 'ruining' football when we had Hart, Richards, Barry, Milner, Lescott and AJ in the England squad

 

[Damocles]

But that said teenager doesn't give a shit how City go about their business. He just cares about good footballers and success. As a kid, Blackburn won the perm league. I don't remember them being a sugar daddy club or the millions they spent. I just remember Shearer and Sutton. All the goals and apparently how we used to have Colin Hendry.

My point is that while a lot of what you say is true in relation to how the club want to market the club, the simple fact is teenagers don't care about the business an politics or how you go about your business. They simple care about what they see out on the pitch.

This is wrong though. We're not living in a world of Blackburns any more, we're living in a world of constant social media connection for anybody over the age of about 5.

I have a nephew who is 10 and talks to his mates about Dortmund and their pressing game. He didn't pick this up by watching Dortmund and he's probably never even watched a match of theirs. He has however heard it on social media, listened to the commentators on his FIFA game talk about and seen pundits on the telly explaining it.

The average teenager now grew up in a world where the internet in your pocket is as commonplace as a TV in your house. Barcelona and Dortmund have built almost their entire international popularity not just based on success but on the way they achieved that success - Dortmund specifically have managed to carve out a brand based around how they play, the type of players they buy and the type of fans they have.

 

[NQCitizen]

But that said teenager doesn't give a shit how City go about their business. He just cares about good footballers and success. As a kid, Blackburn won the perm league. I don't remember them being a sugar daddy club or the millions they spent. I just remember Shearer and Sutton. All the goals and apparently how we used to have Colin Hendry.

My point is that while a lot of what you say is true in relation to how the club want to market the club, the simple fact is teenagers don't care about the business an politics or how you go about your business. They simple care about what they see out on the pitch.

This is wrong though. We're not living in a world of Blackburns any more, we're living in a world of constant social media connection for anybody over the age of about 5.

I have a nephew who is 10 and talks to his mates about Dortmund and their pressing game. He didn't pick this up by watching Dortmund and he's probably never even watched a match of theirs. He has however heard it on social media, listened to the commentators on his FIFA game talk about and seen pundits on the telly explaining it.

The average teenager now grew up in a world where the internet in your pocket is as commonplace as a TV in your house. Barcelona and Dortmund have built almost their entire international popularity not just based on success but on the way they achieved that success - Dortmund specifically have managed to carve out a brand based around how they play, the type of players they buy and the type of fans they have.

I would argue that we're not on brand then. We chase the two managers in Europe that are most synonymous with two existing clubs. We won't play youth players. Our playing style throughout has largely been wait for Aguero, Yaya, Silva to do something remarkable, we don't have an iconic leader like Terry, Ramos, Gerrard etc, the fans can't create any attachment to the premier club competition we play in. Even Aguero who is remarkable isn't as willing a poster boy as many on his level (he seems more shy and less self obsessed - not necessarily a bad thing.)

From an outside perspective I'd say we as a club can't or won't go the extra mile be that in transfers, performances or atmospheres and seasons like this one, don't help.

The Aguero moment shouted "We're here!". Ever since as a brand our message has been "... actually we are not quite ready".

That's what makes this summer so important.

 

[flb]

But that said teenager doesn't give a shit how City go about their business. He just cares about good footballers and success. As a kid, Blackburn won the perm league. I don't remember them being a sugar daddy club or the millions they spent. I just remember Shearer and Sutton. All the goals and apparently how we used to have Colin Hendry.

My point is that while a lot of what you say is true in relation to how the club want to market the club, the simple fact is teenagers don't care about the business an politics or how you go about your business. They simple care about what they see out on the pitch.

This is wrong though. We're not living in a world of Blackburns any more, we're living in a world of constant social media connection for anybody over the age of about 5.

I have a nephew who is 10 and talks to his mates about Dortmund and their pressing game. He didn't pick this up by watching Dortmund and he's probably never even watched a match of theirs. He has however heard it on social media, listened to the commentators on his FIFA game talk about and seen pundits on the telly explaining it.

The average teenager now grew up in a world where the internet in your pocket is as commonplace as a TV in your house. Barcelona and Dortmund have built almost their entire international popularity not just based on success but on the way they achieved that success - Dortmund specifically have managed to carve out a brand based around how they play, the type of players they buy and the type of fans they have.

I would argue that we're not on brand then. We chase the two managers in Europe that are most synonymous with two existing clubs. We won't play youth players. Our playing style throughout has largely been wait for Aguero, Yaya, Silva to do something remarkable, we don't have an iconic leader like Terry, Ramos, Gerrard etc, the fans can't create any attachment to the premier club competition we play in. Even Aguero who is remarkable isn't as willing a poster boy as many on his level (he seems more shy and less self obsessed - not necessarily a bad thing.)

From an outside perspective I'd say we as a club can't or won't go the extra mile be that in transfers, performances or atmospheres and seasons like this one, don't help.

The Aguero moment shouted "We're here!". Ever since as a brand our message has been "... actually we are not quite ready".

That's what makes this summer so important.

Hard to argue with any of that, we have no real identity at the moment

 

[blueparrot]

This is wrong though. We're not living in a world of Blackburns any more, we're living in a world of constant social media connection for anybody over the age of about 5.

I have a nephew who is 10 and talks to his mates about Dortmund and their pressing game. He didn't pick this up by watching Dortmund and he's probably never even watched a match of theirs. He has however heard it on social media, listened to the commentators on his FIFA game talk about and seen pundits on the telly explaining it.

The average teenager now grew up in a world where the internet in your pocket is as commonplace as a TV in your house. Barcelona and Dortmund have built almost their entire international popularity not just based on success but on the way they achieved that success - Dortmund specifically have managed to carve out a brand based around how they play, the type of players they buy and the type of fans they have.

I would argue that we're not on brand then. We chase the two managers in Europe that are most synonymous with two existing clubs. We won't play youth players. Our playing style throughout has largely been wait for Aguero, Yaya, Silva to do something remarkable, we don't have an iconic leader like Terry, Ramos, Gerrard etc, the fans can't create any attachment to the premier club competition we play in. Even Aguero who is remarkable isn't as willing a poster boy as many on his level (he seems more shy and less self obsessed - not necessarily a bad thing.)

From an outside perspective I'd say we as a club can't or won't go the extra mile be that in transfers, performances or atmospheres and seasons like this one, don't help.

The Aguero moment shouted "We're here!". Ever since as a brand our message has been "... actually we are not quite ready".

That's what makes this summer so important.

Hard to argue with any of that, we have no real identity at the moment

It's like we're invisible men :)

 

[flb]

I would argue that we're not on brand then. We chase the two managers in Europe that are most synonymous with two existing clubs. We won't play youth players. Our playing style throughout has largely been wait for Aguero, Yaya, Silva to do something remarkable, we don't have an iconic leader like Terry, Ramos, Gerrard etc, the fans can't create any attachment to the premier club competition we play in. Even Aguero who is remarkable isn't as willing a poster boy as many on his level (he seems more shy and less self obsessed - not necessarily a bad thing.)

From an outside perspective I'd say we as a club can't or won't go the extra mile be that in transfers, performances or atmospheres and seasons like this one, don't help.

The Aguero moment shouted "We're here!". Ever since as a brand our message has been "... actually we are not quite ready".

That's what makes this summer so important.

Hard to argue with any of that, we have no real identity at the moment

It's like we're invisible men :)

Joking apart though what real identity have Arsenal got? Been at the top for over a decade, they haven't had any real big names really since Henry, i don't see it a problem in overtaking them in the popularity stakes tbh, Chelsea another, United and Liverpool is a different matter though.

 

[theres only one carlito]

We should be starting by putting a couple in the squad, peoples opinions would soon change

It's where I think chelsea really missed a trick.
They should of focused more on bringing young English players of national pedigree through their ranks much earlier on in the process. Terry was a perfect example but they failed to follow that up. It's why I think its not allowed their brand to grow. As damocles suggested. Our owners I think have cottoned on to this and as a result invested in the CFA early doors. Three or four good players in the national team and the route to acceptance.

I don't believe it will make a difference. We were still 'ruining' football when we had Hart, Richards, Barry, Milner, Lescott and AJ in the England squad

Hart was a Shrewsbury youth, everybody knew that. He has never been synonymous with mcfc's development of a young player. Neither have Barry, lesscott or Johnson. They are not recognised as mcfc products. On the contrary they are probably regarded as mercenaries from an outside point of view. Bought with oil money. The very reason we are not getting the recognition the owners clearly want. Richards was never around the national team long enough to really advertise mcfc youth Development. You look at Southampton, praised from pillar to post for their work, simply because of their youth programme and English talent at that. Respected through out the game because of it. They havnt won diddly for yonks but still get the plaudits. This is what the owners want I believe.Whilst staying competitive at first team level. From a business point of view from a brand point of view and from an Abu Dhabi point of view.

It's very barcelonaesque. Didn't they have nine or so players in their national team at one point. Mostly youth pproducts.Also won everything in sight. Whilst playing the best club football ever seen. The respect and admiration from everybody is exactly what our owners are after I believe.