Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini 2014/15 (continued)

[supercity88]

That's pretty much all undermined by the fact that "man city people" do exist already, they just aren't invited onto TV as that's not the narrative that the media want to tell. We existed before the takeover and there are tons of former players and the like who would fight our corner if they were on TV who are just as qualified to talk about football as those currently on TV, but they are overlooked.

Unfortunately having Shaun Goater on the telly telling the audience how he scored a screamer against Bournemouth isn't the same as say Paul Scholes talking about scoring a 30 yarder into the top corner v Barcelona.

Andy Hinchcliffe does pretty much every championship game on Sky, but have you ever seen him for one of our games? I can't recall ever seeing him. Yet they have no problem rolling out unremarkable former players of smaller premier league teams when they play, just never us. While they have no problem at all rolling out someone like Paul Scholes for our CL games on ITV, knowing that all he'll do is slaughter us, while any other team would get someone representing them. The closest we get is Niall fucking Quinn, who never misses a chance to stick the boot in, or Danny Mills, who is just about the most unremarkable player imaginable, yet has managed to make a media career out of being rolled out as "former Man City player Danny Mills" when they need someone to give us a kicking. You can't honestly believe this is all just a coincidence?

I think you're being a bit defeatist there pal. I know what you mean... the only former City player that gets any recognition of it is Mills and he's a prize c**t. But the fact remains that when we were looked at fondly it was because we were no threat. Now we are, the majority want to criticise and to slate us. It's what comes with being at the top and challenging the usual suspects. We have Trevor Sinclair and Lee Dixon but both though supporters of City, are associated with other clubs too. That's why the Frank Lampard purchase was good. I think he will go on to have a career in the game whether on the field or in the media and he will be an advocate of everything we are trying to do. Give it time... we used to be absolute dog shit pal and you're not going to get Hinchcliffe working on a CL game... Look at who is in the media. Generally they tick one of the following boxes; a) played in a league winning side b) was a top player for England. Lineker, Shearer, Dixon, Henry (now and then)... don't worry about the small fry like Mills and Savage. No one rates their opinion either way. Look at how slagged off they get on bbc live feeds from people who query why they are allowed to slate absolutely everything. Similarly Scholes. Not a peep when he was a player but now likes to slag off tactics etc.

If City can bring through Manchester lads or English lads in general and they go on to star for England and City our media image will be transformed in this country. English football is still hugely celebrated and it will help sell a lot of shirts in this country and abroad if we can manage that. Even if it is England shirts the name will be synonymous with City. We can completely address our current image but it will take a bit of time.

 

[nomorethaksintimes]

Didn't know whether to post here or the Klopp thread.

__

Some of this thread is a bit embarrassing. Giddy people posting vines of Klopp jumping up and down in a tracksuit like that will fix things or that it somehow makes him better than Pellegrini. It's like teenage girls getting excited by a new boyband. Cringeworthy.

Pellegrini seems to have been caricaturized as some dour, uninspired chequebook manager by some on here. He clearly isn't arsed about the media side of his job and his English is limited in press conferences. This strongly affects the way fans perceive him but neither of these things are of any consequence with the players/ his ability to do the job. After two years in England, Mourinho and Pelle will have a league and league cup to their name each - but one is now being labelled a managerial genius by the press whilst Pelle's initial achievements were met with apathy.

If Pellegrini was such a wet towel, then his achievements at Villareal and Malaga (particuarly when the financial ship was sinking and he firefighting on all fronts whilst taking them on an amazing Champions league run) wouldn't have been possible. And the points total he achieved at Madrid alone deserves respect. This season is probably one of his worst in recent memory and we could still finish second. This is a manager who has consistently got the best out of his players over the last decade and before he came here was widely recognised as one of the best man managers in the world. This hasn't changed overnight.

Personally, I think Klopp/Guardiola/Pellegrini are all top classes manages with little between them (media perceptions/press conference entertainment aside. The players are the main problem - many lacking either technically or mentally.

If your opinion is that Pellegrini should go, fine. But calling him a joker etc does a great disservice to his managerial record and shows your own naiviety. With Klopp or Pellegrini or any other top-class manager we'll be fine providing we get the considerable amount of deadwood out and the directors actually sign some world-class talent for once.

 

[nomorethaksintimes]

Also just looking over Pellegrini's record again. Completely forgot that aswell as getting Villareal to a Champions League semi he once finished second in La Liga 10 points ahead of Barcelona. Just think some people need some perspective before labelling him a disaster or clueless.

 

[mosssideblue]

Didn't know whether to post here or the Klopp thread.

__

Some of this thread is a bit embarrassing. Giddy people posting vines of Klopp jumping up and down in a tracksuit like that will fix things or that it somehow makes him better than Pellegrini. It's like teenage girls getting excited by a new boyband. Cringeworthy.

Pellegrini seems to have been caricaturized as some dour, uninspired chequebook manager by some on here. He clearly isn't arsed about the media side of his job and his English is limited in press conferences. This strongly affects the way fans perceive him but neither of these things are of any consequence with the players/ his ability to do the job. After two years in England, Mourinho and Pelle will have a league and league cup to their name each - but one is now being labelled a managerial genius by the press whilst Pelle's initial achievements were met with apathy.

If Pellegrini was such a wet towel, then his achievements at Villareal and Malaga (particuarly when the financial ship was sinking and he firefighting on all fronts whilst taking them on an amazing Champions league run) wouldn't have been possible. And the points total he achieved at Madrid alone deserves respect. This season is probably one of his worst in recent memory and we could still finish second. This is a manager who has consistently got the best out of his players over the last decade and before he came here was widely recognised as one of the best man managers in the world. This hasn't changed overnight.

Personally, I think Klopp/Guardiola/Pellegrini are all top classes manages with little between them (media perceptions/press conference entertainment aside. The players are the main problem - many lacking either technically or mentally.

If your opinion is that Pellegrini should go, fine. But calling him a joker etc does a great disservice to his managerial record and shows your own naiviety. With Klopp or Pellegrini or any other top-class manager we'll be fine providing we get the considerable amount of deadwood out and the directors actually sign some world-class talent for once.

Post of the week that my friend.

 

[BillyShears]

Didn't know whether to post here or the Klopp thread.

__

Some of this thread is a bit embarrassing. Giddy people posting vines of Klopp jumping up and down in a tracksuit like that will fix things or that it somehow makes him better than Pellegrini. It's like teenage girls getting excited by a new boyband. Cringeworthy.

Pellegrini seems to have been caricaturized as some dour, uninspired chequebook manager by some on here. He clearly isn't arsed about the media side of his job and his English is limited in press conferences. This strongly affects the way fans perceive him but neither of these things are of any consequence with the players/ his ability to do the job. After two years in England, Mourinho and Pelle will have a league and league cup to their name each - but one is now being labelled a managerial genius by the press whilst Pelle's initial achievements were met with apathy.

If Pellegrini was such a wet towel, then his achievements at Villareal and Malaga (particuarly when the financial ship was sinking and he firefighting on all fronts whilst taking them on an amazing Champions league run) wouldn't have been possible. And the points total he achieved at Madrid alone deserves respect. This season is probably one of his worst in recent memory and we could still finish second. This is a manager who has consistently got the best out of his players over the last decade and before he came here was widely recognised as one of the best man managers in the world. This hasn't changed overnight.

Personally, I think Klopp/Guardiola/Pellegrini are all top classes manages with little between them (media perceptions/press conference entertainment aside. The players are the main problem - many lacking either technically or mentally.

If your opinion is that Pellegrini should go, fine. But calling him a joker etc does a great disservice to his managerial record and shows your own naiviety. With Klopp or Pellegrini or any other top-class manager we'll be fine providing we get the considerable amount of deadwood out and the directors actually sign some world-class talent for once.

Top post. Well said.

 

[chris85mcfc]

And now its the directors fault

So we've gone full circle again hahaha

 

[chesterbells]

We can never be the behemoth without that acceptance. It's why Chelsea have still fell behind in a business and footballing sense over a decade after their takeover.

Our business model depends on our ability to attract new fans and give them something to emotionally hang their hat on in terms of "who Man City are", in the way that United, Arsenal and Liverpool have but Chelsea don't.

United fans rightly or wrongly could describe in great detail who United are as a club and if you got 100 fans to do this then 75% of them would be "on message" regarding Munich/the Busby Babes to the European Cup comeback, Alex Ferguson and Fergies Fledglings, constant youth development, the Stretford End and Best, Charlton and Law, etc. Arsenal fans would talk about Chapman's revolutions and then Wenger's revolutions on how he singlehandedly modernised the English game, how Arsenal play the best football and are single-minded in how they go about their business. Liverpool will talk about Shankly, the boot-room, Istanbul, Gerrard and Carragher and Owen and the rest of them.

My point is that each of these clubs have a mythos behind them that ties into their brand identity. Of course much of it is complete bollocks but that isn't important to the Beijing Massive who will watch Sky TV and listen to how these are "great clubs, different from any other". This obviously drives their revenue - not only because fans feel that certain traits that the club holds but also that advertisers will see that people associate these clubs with that trait and will want to cross-market themselves with them.

Chelsea have consistently struggled for revenue because they don't have this. They have the stink of new money, the image of oil baron running things, a suspect Russian in charge, no standardised way of playing football and a bunch of racist fans.

Again, this is obviously bollocks that doesn't take into account the great things that they have done but my point is that their brand image out in the wider world is not a positive one.

Our image is less vitriolic than Chelseas, and people tend to hate us less because of the local investments made and the fact that we don't really have many dislikeable players in our team. We do have the new money problem and we do have the oil baron problem and the FFP sanctions were extremely bad for us image wise, but outside of that we're doing better than Chelsea were in trying to pull back the stink of investment. With NYCFC and Melbourne we are creating new fans of the brand in the longer term - many of the NYCFC lot absolutely hate us now but these are the first responders/glory-hunting tossers who will be weeded out in the long run and their fanbase will become more sensible over time to see the shared relationship.

You talk of success and the need for it but I'd argue that in the modern global game, success alone isn't enough to build your business on top of and use not only Chelsea but many of the Italian clubs and the differences between Wolfsburg/Dortmund in Germany. We don't compete REALLY with the Evertons of the world in terms of building new sponsor relations and gaining a fanbase; we compete with Barca, Bayern, Real, United, Liverpool, Milan, Juve, Arsenal and Chelsea. They all have success as well so we're no different in that regard - what we're trying to do here is to create a "Man City Way".

To be honest, the Man City Way is basically what was always Typical City. But since the Swales Era the "brand" of our club has always been one of spectacular fuck ups with the opposite that people also claim to be part of the charm not being common enough. That's who we are to many outsiders and it's who we are to many City fans. We were essentially the bumbling but loveable sidekick of English football.

That isn't however who Abu Dhabi wants us to be. They as you point out want us to be liked and respected, rather than liked and patronised or respected but feared. They understand that this will help them achieve the goals that they have when buying the club and it will help us grow as a brand in the new battlegrounds of European football - the US, Africa and India. They want City to have a positive attitude in the minds of other people and unfortunately some sacrifices do need to be made around this idea, like not going and telling UEFA to fuck themselves and spending £500m.

We can talk on and on and on about the relative merits and faults with these ideas, but it's essentially fruitless as we'll conduct our business like that no matter what. We're not City's target audience any more, they already have us hooked. They are now arsed about the Chinese teenager shopping in their local sports shop and to get them to buy City's shirt, so that we have the revenues to compete with the biggest clubs in the world. Distasteful or not, it is the commercial realities of football in a UEFA driven world.

A good read that, nice one

 

[80s Shorts]

But that said teenager doesn't give a shit how City go about their business. He just cares about good footballers and success. As a kid, Blackburn won the perm league. I don't remember them being a sugar daddy club or the millions they spent. I just remember Shearer and Sutton. All the goals and apparently how we used to have Colin Hendry.

My point is that while a lot of what you say is true in relation to how the club want to market the club, the simple fact is teenagers don't care about the business an politics or how you go about your business. They simple care about what they see out on the pitch.

This is wrong though. We're not living in a world of Blackburns any more, we're living in a world of constant social media connection for anybody over the age of about 5.

I have a nephew who is 10 and talks to his mates about Dortmund and their pressing game. He didn't pick this up by watching Dortmund and he's probably never even watched a match of theirs. He has however heard it on social media, listened to the commentators on his FIFA game talk about and seen pundits on the telly explaining it.


The average teenager now grew up in a world where the internet in your pocket is as commonplace as a TV in your house. Barcelona and Dortmund have built almost their entire international popularity not just based on success but on the way they achieved that success - Dortmund specifically have managed to carve out a brand based around how they play, the type of players they buy and the type of fans they have.

How is it wrong then ?

He said it's about the football and you just said the same. None of my teenage or younger relatives give a fook about any housing development or community work etc etc. All they are interested in is lording it over the Rags at school or college.

 

[Marvin]

Didn't know whether to post here or the Klopp thread.

__

Some of this thread is a bit embarrassing. Giddy people posting vines of Klopp jumping up and down in a tracksuit like that will fix things or that it somehow makes him better than Pellegrini. It's like teenage girls getting excited by a new boyband. Cringeworthy.

Pellegrini seems to have been caricaturized as some dour, uninspired chequebook manager by some on here. He clearly isn't arsed about the media side of his job and his English is limited in press conferences. This strongly affects the way fans perceive him but neither of these things are of any consequence with the players/ his ability to do the job. After two years in England, Mourinho and Pelle will have a league and league cup to their name each - but one is now being labelled a managerial genius by the press whilst Pelle's initial achievements were met with apathy.

If Pellegrini was such a wet towel, then his achievements at Villareal and Malaga (particuarly when the financial ship was sinking and he firefighting on all fronts whilst taking them on an amazing Champions league run) wouldn't have been possible. And the points total he achieved at Madrid alone deserves respect. This season is probably one of his worst in recent memory and we could still finish second. This is a manager who has consistently got the best out of his players over the last decade and before he came here was widely recognised as one of the best man managers in the world. This hasn't changed overnight.

Personally, I think Klopp/Guardiola/Pellegrini are all top classes manages with little between them (media perceptions/press conference entertainment aside. The players are the main problem - many lacking either technically or mentally.

If your opinion is that Pellegrini should go, fine. But calling him a joker etc does a great disservice to his managerial record and shows your own naiviety. With Klopp or Pellegrini or any other top-class manager we'll be fine providing we get the considerable amount of deadwood out and the directors actually sign some world-class talent for once.

Top post. Well said.

I am not sure about the comparison between Pep, Klopp and Pellegrini.....

Klopp/Guardiola/Pellegrini are all top class managers with little between them.

Prior to winning the title with Mancini's team, what did Pellegrini achieve in Europe? The Intertoto Cup and he had a good record with small teams. Well so did Moyes.

Guardiola built a dynasty at Barcelona and has followed Heynckes at Bayern.

Klopp built a team at Dortmund and won 2 league titles and took his team to the Champions League

He has got charisma and he reminds me of Mourinho when he first came on the scene at Porto.

Klopp has had a bad season. That should worry anyone and raise question marks, but they have a policy, forced on them or not, of selling their best players.

Klopp's Dortmund is an expression of his personality. It's very much a Klopp team. Guardiola is intense and meticulous and everything is planned and worked on. I believe he works on closing down and who does what when they lose possession, everything is planned out.

But I don't have any kind if idea what City are trying to do in games.

Klopp is the most credible manager out there, and the inferior performances and results now last 4 months. I know Klopp went through a similar period, but he has come out the other side and has more credibility in my eyes. We just can't go into next season with Pellegrini in charge. He's not a figurehead or leader, he's just a man I feel a little bit sorry for who seems to have lost his group of players.

 

[nomorethaksintimes]

Didn't know whether to post here or the Klopp thread.

__

Some of this thread is a bit embarrassing. Giddy people posting vines of Klopp jumping up and down in a tracksuit like that will fix things or that it somehow makes him better than Pellegrini. It's like teenage girls getting excited by a new boyband. Cringeworthy.

Pellegrini seems to have been caricaturized as some dour, uninspired chequebook manager by some on here. He clearly isn't arsed about the media side of his job and his English is limited in press conferences. This strongly affects the way fans perceive him but neither of these things are of any consequence with the players/ his ability to do the job. After two years in England, Mourinho and Pelle will have a league and league cup to their name each - but one is now being labelled a managerial genius by the press whilst Pelle's initial achievements were met with apathy.

If Pellegrini was such a wet towel, then his achievements at Villareal and Malaga (particuarly when the financial ship was sinking and he firefighting on all fronts whilst taking them on an amazing Champions league run) wouldn't have been possible. And the points total he achieved at Madrid alone deserves respect. This season is probably one of his worst in recent memory and we could still finish second. This is a manager who has consistently got the best out of his players over the last decade and before he came here was widely recognised as one of the best man managers in the world. This hasn't changed overnight.

Personally, I think Klopp/Guardiola/Pellegrini are all top classes manages with little between them (media perceptions/press conference entertainment aside. The players are the main problem - many lacking either technically or mentally.

If your opinion is that Pellegrini should go, fine. But calling him a joker etc does a great disservice to his managerial record and shows your own naiviety. With Klopp or Pellegrini or any other top-class manager we'll be fine providing we get the considerable amount of deadwood out and the directors actually sign some world-class talent for once.

Top post. Well said.

I am not sure about the comparison between Pep, Klopp and Pellegrini.....

Klopp/Guardiola/Pellegrini are all top class managers with little between them.

Prior to winning the title with Mancini's team, what did Pellegrini achieve in Europe? The Intertoto Cup and he had a good record with small teams. Well so did Moyes.

Guardiola built a dynasty at Barcelona and has followed Heynckes at Bayern.

Klopp built a team at Dortmund and won 2 league titles and took his team to the Champions League

He has got charisma and he reminds me of Mourinho when he first came on the scene at Porto.

Klopp has had a bad season. That should worry anyone and raise question marks, but they have a policy, forced on them or not, of selling their best players.

Klopp's Dortmund is an expression of his personality. It's very much a Klopp team. Guardiola is intense and meticulous and everything is planned and worked on. I believe he works on closing down and who does what when they lose possession, everything is planned out.

But I don't have any kind if idea what City are trying to do in games.

Klopp is the most credible manager out there, and the inferior performances and results now last 4 months. I know Klopp went through a similar period, but he has come out the other side and has more credibility in my eyes. We just can't go into next season with Pellegrini in charge. He's not a figurehead or leader, he's just a man I feel a little bit sorry for who seems to have lost his group of players.

I understand your viewpoint but again am shocked how you just completely dismiss everything he achieved in Spain. It's exactly the treatment the English media have given him.

I also think City last season, his Madrid team with a record points total for the most successful team in the history of football, and the football Villareal played are all a pretty accurate expression of his managerial style.