Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini (2014/15)

[flb]

A barrel scraping excuse if ever I've heard one, what's on the pitch generates atmosphere, not the other way round.

Very easy to blame the fans, United have played in front of a library for decades- hasn't stopped them winning trophies.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Isn't the atmosphere at all the big clubs getting worse? I have seen lots of matches at Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and United and most often when the teams are struggling, you can hear a pin drop. Score a goal and off the crowd goes again. Of course, if you don't score, the crowd doesn't get going at all.

Maybe it's the shift from a social/community association where people went to get pissed, meet mates and just shout as loud as they could, to a business where people pay a lot of money to be entertained. Maybe it's a social shift where people more and more expect instant gratification. Whatever it is, I don't think it relates just to the Etihad ...

As for Palace, what was the atmosphere like when they were losing and playing shit?

For goodness sake surely intelligent people can agree that a poor atmosphere filled with groans can have a negative impact on how the players perform. Look at Palace can you imagine them doing as well if the atmosphere was like ours? Exactly. We're not fully to blame of course but it can play a small part in the result of the game.

Its been the same for years, the atmosphere has always been poor.

But it wasn't getting mentioned when we won our two league titles.

 

[FanchesterCity]

The last couple of pages have certainly been interesting. We're now passing the buck to the fans who have sat and endured a season where for the most part the football has been turgid, team selections baffling and players not giving a fuck. We've gone out of two domestic cups to teams we should be beating every day of the week and whilst doing enough in the end to qualify for the last 16 of CL we were soundly beaten in what could have been a cricket score had our Keeper not had the game of his life.

I appreciate the atmosphere isn't rocking but it's a fucking stretch to think that professional footballers look around the Etihad on a match day and let the fact we're not bouncing up and down affect their performance in any way shape or form. If they're doing their jobs in the first place they shouldn't hear the crowd, it should just be background noise.

Anyway isn't there already half a dozen threads having a go at match goers?

That's just plain wrong.
Nobody's blaming fans (as far as I can tell).
It's been commented that we as fans have a part to play in trying to keep morale up... and when things are going wrong, we can, unfortunate add to the tension because we're frustrated. It's not fans 'fault', or that we are to 'blame' it's just saying that the crowd is a factor.

 

[Phil1]

The last couple of pages have certainly been interesting. We're now passing the buck to the fans who have sat and endured a season where for the most part the football has been turgid, team selections baffling and players not giving a fuck. We've gone out of two domestic cups to teams we should be beating every day of the week and whilst doing enough in the end to qualify for the last 16 of CL we were soundly beaten in what could have been a cricket score had our Keeper not had the game of his life.

I appreciate the atmosphere isn't rocking but it's a fucking stretch to think that professional footballers look around the Etihad on a match day and let the fact we're not bouncing up and down affect their performance in any way shape or form. If they're doing their jobs in the first place they shouldn't hear the crowd, it should just be background noise.

Anyway isn't there already half a dozen threads having a go at match goers?

That's just plain wrong.
Nobody's blaming fans (as far as I can tell).
It's been commented that we as fans have a part to play in trying to keep morale up... and when things are going wrong, we can, unfortunate add to the tension because we're frustrated. It's not fans 'fault', or that we are to 'blame' it's just saying that the crowd is a factor.

No, saying its a factor is wrong. If we have players who let their performance on the pitch be affected by how much/little noise we generate then they shouldn't be on the pitch in the first place.

 

[cleavers]

Thanks mate. It's a vicious circle for me. You turn up expecting to be entertained. Your not. Jump on a forum or Twitter and lay into the manager and a few players. There's a drip drip effect in terms of what mindset you take to the Match. The supporters may not directly impact certain aspects of a performance but they can influence the energy the team has positively.

Agree with that, but there's another issue on top for me.

We spent so many years not expecting to win (games, never mind trophies), so we just supported in hope, then all of a sudden, it all happened in a rush, winning nearly every week, wembley every season, trophies, and expectations just became too high,and we started turning up and waiting for the inevitable win.

Its not the fans fault though, we have to many weak minded players, and we need to get rid of them, and bring in fresh, hungry, committed players. It'll be a tough ask in one summer though.

 

[FanchesterCity]

Isn't the atmosphere at all the big clubs getting worse? I have seen lots of matches at Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and United and most often when the teams are struggling, you can hear a pin drop. Score a goal and off the crowd goes again. Of course, if you don't score, the crowd doesn't get going at all.

Maybe it's the shift from a social/community association where people went to get pissed, meet mates and just shout as loud as they could, to a business where people pay a lot of money to be entertained. Maybe it's a social shift where people more and more expect instant gratification. Whatever it is, I don't think it relates just to the Etihad ...

As for Palace, what was the atmosphere like when they were losing and playing shit?

It is getting worse at most places, especially the popular clubs where, realistically, the fan base is getting more and more middle class and family oriented. Not saying that's a good or a bad thing, but it changes the dynamics.
Some of the smaller clubs probably have more of a hard core fan base, and generate better atmosphere (when winning).

I think the whole debate's gotten out of hand, after someone mentioned 'the fans don't help'. I'm inclined to agree with that sentiment, regardless of any flak that might come with it. I don't think it's a criticism of City fans. Precisely the same can be said of Liverpool when they have a bad run, or United... the crowd get frustrated and it becomes part of the negative cycle. You can almost hear a collective sigh when Dzeko starts these days, and that's before a ball is kicked. A good manager will spot this, and play Bony.... not because he's any better, but because it helps instil a sense of 'trying something different'.

For goodness sake surely intelligent people can agree that a poor atmosphere filled with groans can have a negative impact on how the players perform. Look at Palace can you imagine them doing as well if the atmosphere was like ours? Exactly. We're not fully to blame of course but it can play a small part in the result of the game.

Its been the same for years, the atmosphere has always been poor.

But it wasn't getting mentioned when we won our two league titles.

 

[mosssideblue]

Hughes had 32 points of 18 games when he had to go. 1.77 points/game.

Since 1st of January we are after 12 games on 18 points. Thats 1.5 points per game.

Thats a joke with a lot stronger, settled squad that has the experience of two league titles and none of the shambles that was the Hughes team...(No Silva, Kun, Yaya back then yet...)

7 more games to go there is a good chance he wont even be able to reach Hughes' point/game ratio in around 20 games. We would need 16 points from 21 to make it 1.77points/game.

Too many things changed over the years for that to have any meaning today.

 

[Phil1]

Thanks mate. It's a vicious circle for me. You turn up expecting to be entertained. Your not. Jump on a forum or Twitter and lay into the manager and a few players. There's a drip drip effect in terms of what mindset you take to the Match. The supporters may not directly impact certain aspects of a performance but they can influence the energy the team has positively.

Agree with that, but there's another issue on top for me.

We spent so many years not expecting to win (games, never mind trophies), so we just supported in hope, then all of a sudden, it all happened in a rush, winning nearly every week, wembley every season, trophies, and expectations just became too high,and we started turning up and waiting for the inevitable win.

Its not the fans fault though, we have to many weak minded players, and we need to get rid of them, and bring in fresh, hungry, committed players. It'll be a tough ask in one summer though.

Your last paragraph nails it.

 

[halfcenturyup]

To be fair, it's way down the list this season, and as this is a Pellegrini thread, there are many more relevant issues to discuss. A little more passion from the bench during the match may get the fans going.

The last couple of pages have certainly been interesting. We're now passing the buck to the fans who have sat and endured a season where for the most part the football has been turgid, team selections baffling and players not giving a fuck. We've gone out of two domestic cups to teams we should be beating every day of the week and whilst doing enough in the end to qualify for the last 16 of CL we were soundly beaten in what could have been a cricket score had our Keeper not had the game of his life.

I appreciate the atmosphere isn't rocking but it's a fucking stretch to think that professional footballers look around the Etihad on a match day and let the fact we're not bouncing up and down affect their performance in any way shape or form. If they're doing their jobs in the first place they shouldn't hear the crowd, it should just be background noise.

Anyway isn't there already half a dozen threads having a go at match goers?

That's just plain wrong.
Nobody's blaming fans (as far as I can tell).
It's been commented that we as fans have a part to play in trying to keep morale up... and when things are going wrong, we can, unfortunate add to the tension because we're frustrated. It's not fans 'fault', or that we are to 'blame' it's just saying that the crowd is a factor.

 

[FanchesterCity]

The last couple of pages have certainly been interesting. We're now passing the buck to the fans who have sat and endured a season where for the most part the football has been turgid, team selections baffling and players not giving a fuck. We've gone out of two domestic cups to teams we should be beating every day of the week and whilst doing enough in the end to qualify for the last 16 of CL we were soundly beaten in what could have been a cricket score had our Keeper not had the game of his life.

I appreciate the atmosphere isn't rocking but it's a fucking stretch to think that professional footballers look around the Etihad on a match day and let the fact we're not bouncing up and down affect their performance in any way shape or form. If they're doing their jobs in the first place they shouldn't hear the crowd, it should just be background noise.

Anyway isn't there already half a dozen threads having a go at match goers?

That's just plain wrong.
Nobody's blaming fans (as far as I can tell).
It's been commented that we as fans have a part to play in trying to keep morale up... and when things are going wrong, we can, unfortunate add to the tension because we're frustrated. It's not fans 'fault', or that we are to 'blame' it's just saying that the crowd is a factor.

No, saying its a factor is wrong. If we have players who let their performance on the pitch be affected by how much/little noise we generate then they shouldn't be on the pitch in the first place.

If that's the case... why support City? do you not think the support matters?
I can categorically tell you, having spoken to plenty of pro footballers, the crowd matters, be it cheering them on, or booing them. These are players with fantastic ability, but they are still human. They still get nervous in cup finals and they still feel their spine tingle in games with an electric atmosphere.

Read Aguero's biography, he speaks very clearly of the QPR moment... he could sense the tension.

 

[FanchesterCity]

To be fair, it's way down the list this season, and as this is a Pellegrini thread, there are many more relevant issues to discuss. A little more passion from the bench during the match may get the fans going.

The last couple of pages have certainly been interesting. We're now passing the buck to the fans who have sat and endured a season where for the most part the football has been turgid, team selections baffling and players not giving a fuck. We've gone out of two domestic cups to teams we should be beating every day of the week and whilst doing enough in the end to qualify for the last 16 of CL we were soundly beaten in what could have been a cricket score had our Keeper not had the game of his life.

I appreciate the atmosphere isn't rocking but it's a fucking stretch to think that professional footballers look around the Etihad on a match day and let the fact we're not bouncing up and down affect their performance in any way shape or form. If they're doing their jobs in the first place they shouldn't hear the crowd, it should just be background noise.

Anyway isn't there already half a dozen threads having a go at match goers?

Yes, I agree entirely,
Seeing your manager going ape shit at mistakes and rejoicing when we score is a good thing. The cool and calm look is pretty suave when you're winning all the time, but we need to feel like it actually matters. Same with the players. It's hardly surprising I as a fan start sighing when I'm seeing players repeatedly duck out of 50/50 tackle,
Passion on the pitch = passion on the terraces.

 

[Phil1]

That's just plain wrong.
Nobody's blaming fans (as far as I can tell).
It's been commented that we as fans have a part to play in trying to keep morale up... and when things are going wrong, we can, unfortunate add to the tension because we're frustrated. It's not fans 'fault', or that we are to 'blame' it's just saying that the crowd is a factor.

No, saying its a factor is wrong. If we have players who let their performance on the pitch be affected by how much/little noise we generate then they shouldn't be on the pitch in the first place.

If that's the case... why support City? do you not think the support matters?
I can categorically tell you, having spoken to plenty of pro footballers, the crowd matters, be it cheering them on, or booing them. These are players with fantastic ability, but they are still human. They still get nervous in cup finals and they still feel their spine tingle in games with an electric atmosphere.

Read Aguero's biography, he speaks very clearly of the QPR moment... he could sense the tension.

What has supporting City got to do with the subject at hand?
You're getting mixed up with what i'm getting at as well. An atmosphere which is bouncing can spur some teams on, of that there's no argument. I'm talking about the other side of the coin where people are saying the ground being quiet has a negative affect on players which makes them play poorer. That my friend is bollocks, or should be in which case I go back to my statement that they shouldn't be on the pitch in the first place because it's their mentality that's the problem.

 

[BenLlewellyn]

I think getting a top manager this summer all hinges on Bayern Munich, if they win the champions league, Bundesliga and their cup then possibly Pep might think he's done his work in replicating Heynckes' treble and leave/get bored with how easy things are, but this also means that Real Madrid wouldn't have been able to retain it, and with them being behind in the la liga title race and out of their cup, Ancelotti could be sacked, and with this coinciding with Pellegrini being sacked in the summer (unless he pulls off a miracle) we could have a serious chance of getting the top 2 managers in world football (also Klopp might think hes been at a Dortmund long enough).

As with the comments about the atmosphere, I don't believe it has benefited the players, apart from the big games it has been flat, at times embarrassing, and while I don't think it negatively effects the players, a good atmosphere can certainly motivate them for the lesser games. You can't put an accurate reason as to why it's decreased over the last 3 years, but I think the Aguero(ooooo) moment is a factor, possibly people are expecting more excitement for games but if we won that game 2-0 and played out the last 30 minutes by passing the ball around, then the atmosphere might be a bit better. People may not like it but my theory with the high ST prices in some areas is to force people to move into the new tier in the south stand so they can join in with signing with the signing section.

I honestly believe it will be much better next season in every aspect.

 

[blue ranger]

To blame the fans in anyway in anyway is a joke. I think one or two who were telling us we have a reincarnation of the special one managing us are planning their excuses.

The facts are that Txiki, the manager and the players are to blame. Txiki has signed shite and we've not signed a top player since Aguero. The managers tactics are a joke and anyone that sees his team selections in the big games will know that (Barca at home being the best example). Plus the players are mentally weak and one or too are able to coast during games with absolutely zero repercussions. The performance of Yaya Toure for most of this season has been an absolute disgrace. No wonder Jimmy Milner is leaving when he sees someone not trying getting continually picked. God I feel sorry for Fernandinho. A top player being hung out to dry by his manager every week.

 

[mosssideblue]

I love the way most on here think Pep will be a panacea and all our troubles will be over. Until we get a set of players who are willing to fight every game, Pep, or anyone else for that matter, will not get us any further.

If the players are so pissed wit Manuel (which I don't buy into), or don't even like his tactics (no reason why they shouldn't as they each have a medal or two playing to them), they should still go out and show commitment and passion.

I'm not saying Pellers is faultless, but just concerened whoever the next manager we might employ, will get the sack thread opened on them pdq because of certain players attitudes.

 

[cibaman]

Performances have always driven the atmosphere at the Etihad, not the other way round

 

[paulchapo]

It is hard to see where the season fell away but we have been pretty flat for most of it and going out of the league cup at home to Newcastle reserves was a particular low point. On January the 1st i believe we were level top with Chelsea, in spite of having a lot of injuries to key players and not playing well, we had ground out results and wiped out a five point deficit. A draw away to Everton followed by a home loss to Arsenal while Chelsea won their two games put us back to square one and i believe knocked the stuffing out of the team and the fans.

There are a whole lot of reasons we have been poor this season. Injuries, new players not bedding in and looking poor buys and our key players all suffering an alarming dip in form at the same time.

Sometimes i feel sorry for the manager he looks as baffled as the fan's as to why we have lost certain games and yes i do know he is being played mega bucks to sort it out and that is his job. The thing is as other managers say, you can train well, work on tactics but once the players cross that white line it is up to them. He is at the helm so he will probably pay the price but he has been let down by a lot of players this season. Having said that his stubborn refusal to switch tactics and make subs when it is obvious things aren't working IS his job and fault.

If we take our blue tinted glasses off and think about last season he and the team DID get a bit lucky winning two trophies. I was at the league cup final and we were absolute dog shit until two world class strikes turned the game on it's head and won us the cup. The pressure got to the dippers if they had kept their nerve and shut up shop at Palace when they were 3-0 up it could have been a different outcome too, although credit goes to the manager and players for winning all the last few games.

A top team as we now are cannot have such a limp season like we have without someone paying the price and that will probably be the manager.More worryingly he doesn't seem to have an answer or know how to motivate the players any more. The only thing that will save him is one of our top replacement choices isn't available yet, even then we may go with a short term solution until they are.It will be an interesting close season to say the least.

 

[Ray78]

They may all be on a heck of lot more money than we can dream of earning but the players and manager are still just like us and at times need that extra lift. This has been missing all season and in Mancini's last season in charge.

 

[baildon blue]

I could have got a ticket for the Manchester derby at the theatre of shite .
The reason I haven't is I have seen a lot shite in 2015 .
The only match i have been to and we was good was Stoke away .
And no way should us fans take the blame for the crap we are seeing on the pitch .
Pellergrini got to go .
And quite a few players need to go .
My list is
1) Fernando
2) Yaya Toure
3) Dzeko
4) Nasri
5) Caballero
6) Navas
7) Demechelis
8) Kolarov

 

[Utter bobbins]

I could have got a ticket for the Manchester derby at the theatre of shite .
The reason I haven't is I have seen a lot shite in 2015 .
The only match i have been to and we was good was Stoke away .
And no way should us fans take the blame for the crap we are seeing on the pitch .
Pellergrini got to go .
And quite a few players need to go .
My list is
1) Fernando
2) Yaya Toure
3) Dzeko
4) Nasri
5) Caballero
6) Navas
7) Demechelis
8) Kolarov

Lol