Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini 2015/16

[Newman Noggs]

A world without Silva I don't want to imagine!

I know what you mean but there will be others. I just wonder how much longer he would want to have his ankles targeted by the likes of Cattermole and his ilk.

 

[sir baconface]

The Undertaker has spoken.... :-)

Changed my 'occupation' just for you.

GDM and embalming fluid....not a happy combination.

 

[OB1]

Therein lies the problem. Ya Ya cops most of the flak for his half arsed approach to tracking back and closing down, but as you suggest he's far from alone. Both Silva and De Bruyne are habitual offenders, with Kun something of a dilettante as well. KDB covers a lot of miles during games, but he jogs towards the man in possession and frequently gives up altogether once an opponent goes past him. The knock effect is Fernandinho and/or the centre halves getting sucked out of position to cover, with oceans of space then left in front of our back four centrally. The number of times yesterday that Watford players were able to pass the ball to a team mate stood barely 25 yards from our goal and no City player within 10 yards of them was nobody's business. Stark contrast then with our attacking players at the other end of the pitch, who were closed down and hassled the instant they received the ball. And a knock on effect of that is how much harder and riskier it makes our offside trap, when passes can be hit short distances through large gaps without fear of the ball rolling out of play for a goal kick.

We all looked forward to Dave, Kun, KDB, Ya Ya and Sterling in the same team, but it comes at too high a price IMO. There's a fair few City players, who are going to have to up their commitment levels significantly if they're going to have a future when Pep arrives in town. What we do in the meantime though I don't know, but if Pellers can't eke greater defensive discipline out of players like KDB and Silva, and also persuade Ya Ya and Sterling not to fall down looking for soft free kicks all the time whilst the opposition steams back upfield with the ball, then perhaps we might be better off going totally gung ho! At the moment Fernandinho and Hart are just about keeping our title winning chances intact. It's the toughest season ever in terms of the number of decent teams about, but we should be doing better nonetheless.

Excellent analysis, as usual. Great point about the offside trap. I must confess that I am not a big fan of the offside trap being used as extensively as we use it but overall it has been very successful and it does demonstrate that Pellegrini does drill the team defensively in at least one way. The biggest danger with it generally is not the team's failure to execute but the officials' failure to react correctly to it. I'm still not sure if Watford's late attempt on goal would have stood if Hart had failed to stop it: I don't think a free kick was awarded but that doesn't mean the flag didn't go up and the ref chose to play an advantage due to the ball being in Hart's arms.

The conundrum of how to accommodate all the players you refer to has I know been discussed since this post. I really don't know the answer but I would like Pellegrini to adjust according to the opposition. I suspect he will be gung-ho more often than not and live with the risk of giving opponents space when they get the ball on the grounds that he expects us to have most of the ball and be the greater threat. I am one of those who edges towards the view though that we look a more solid team when have Sterling and Navas in the wide positions. I also find it hard to see how leaving Yaya out will do anything other than reduce our effectiveness overall but that could something that should be tested in this week's cup games.

I think the Wreckless one had a point about the team being in transition and related to that, it is fair to point out that Pellegrini has had little opportunity to actually play the Famous Five together and (see if he can) make them into an effective unit.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

the problem with that offside trap is once the linesmen have had their committee meeting to decide they're going to ignore it as it's the easiest way to screw us over, then it's pointless having it as proven by this season where we constantly concede chances that should be given offside but aren't.

The linesmen are just blatantly refusing to acknowledge attackers offside in our penalty area, there's not much we can do other than have somebody scrutinise their income and assets.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Excellent analysis, as usual. Great point about the offside trap. I must confess that I am not a big fan of the offside trap being used as extensively as we use it but overall it has been very successful and it does demonstrate that Pellegrini does drill the team defensively in at least one way. The biggest danger with it generally is not the team's failure to execute but the officials' failure to react correctly to it. I'm still not sure if Watford's late attempt on goal would have stood if Hart had failed to stop it: I don't think a free kick was awarded but that doesn't mean the flag didn't go up and the ref chose to play an advantage due to the ball being in Hart's arms.

The conundrum of how to accommodate all the players you refer to has I know been discussed since this post. I really don't know the answer but I would like Pellegrini to adjust according to the opposition. I suspect he will be gung-ho more often than not and live with the risk of giving opponents space when they get the ball on the grounds that he expects us to have most of the ball and be the greater threat. I am one of those who edges towards the view though that we look a more solid team when have Sterling and Navas in the wide positions. I also find it hard to see how leaving Yaya out will do anything other than reduce our effectiveness overall but that could something that should be tested in this week's cup games.

I think the Wreckless one had a point about the team being in transition and related to that, it is fair to point out that Pellegrini has had little opportunity to actually play the Famous Five together and (see if he can) make them into an effective unit.

I have mentioned that re the offside trap, we are putting our faith in some incompetent moron with a flag. We concede probably double figures goals which are offside (or 'on the cusp of being offside' as Gary Neville describes it when it happens to City). But imo that is another thing which has gone to shit. One thing Pellegrini did do, was organise that line, right or wrong, & we were amongst the best at it. Nowardays it's often about as straight as Rio Ferdinand's mouth.

 

[Paul_Powers_Tash]

Of course the manager sets us up nobody said otherwise. You are imagining stuff or just spouting bullshit to suit your cause and amplify some point.
The quote was highlighting your tone which is accurate to your posts.
Rather than paragraphs of cutting through every comment i think it covers your tone perfectly.

You can say nothing to me because i don't care what you have to say, it is that simple.

Your post history shows you have some weird hatred of Pellegrini and have done from the off, i can't fucking stand people like you i really can't.

lol.... toys out of the pram because someone has a different opinion to you.

I notice you chose to ignore my reasoning as to why the manager is responsible. Better to throw around childish insults and stamp you feet than face the fact that you are wrong.

For the record I have no hatred of anyone let alone our manager. I do however feel he has underperformed considering the talent at his disposal and have pointed this out in reasoned posts when I felt it was deserved. Now please no more tantrums, it's embarrassing.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

I have mentioned that re the offside trap, we are putting our faith in some incompetent moron with a flag. We concede probably double figures goals which are offside (or 'on the cusp of being offside' as Gary Neville describes it when it happens to City). But imo that is another thing which has gone to shit. One thing Pellegrini did do, was organise that line, right or wrong, & we were amongst the best at it. Nowardays it's often about as straight as Rio Ferdinand's mouth.

I've been saying on here for a long time, what is the point in paying tens of millions of pounds for central defenders only to set up a defensive system that deliberately and completely relies on linesmen to get (often tight) decisions correct. As you say though even the argument against playing offside has now changed because we rarely press the ball around the box and the defensive line/stepping up is now much less well organised so it is now just a disaster waiting to happen regardless of incompetent linesmen.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I've been saying on here for a long time, what is the point in paying tens of millions of pounds for central defenders only to set up a defensive system that deliberately and completely relies on linesmen to get (often tight) decisions correct. As you say though even the argument against playing offside has now changed because we rarely press the ball around the box and the defensive line/stepping up is now much less well organised so it is now just a disaster waiting to happen regardless of incompetent linesmen.

The other problem is, with the lack of pressure on the ball, as you say, even if the line is straight, when we reach the stage of playing v teams like Barca, they just flip the ball over or through the line with people like Alba & Alvez sprinting behind & it becomes a lottery as to whether they then find a player to put the ball in the net, as they are clean through on the edge of our box, with the ball at their feet.

Rather than being a solution, it becomes another thing to worry about whilst also watching in case Messi & Co one two their way through the middle of us or welt one in from 20 yards. Actually defending properly & going with the wide runners would be far less Russian Roulette in those circumstances imo.

I suppose it's pointless to worry about it now though, as it ain't going to change between now & May, & then it will probably be gone.

Best just score more than the opposition.

 

[Dribble]

It has been clear for some time this season we are not going to be like Barca, now you can keep ranting at that or accept it and re-evaluate your expectations.
It is folly to "forget injuries" that is just daft bud. It does however suit the narrative of disregarding all else and just point saying it is all the manager.
The dynamics involved are huge bud and they demand to be considered by any reasonable footy person.
Our injuries have almost been surgical in the way they have hampered us imo.

Nobody is disregarding performances but biding our time until summer when we may have the best manager in the world.
We are still right in it and have done this with our main men out for large chunks.

Nowhere is it written that you buy all the best players and everything goes swimmingly.
It sucks we are not rocking but nor are we on our arse. If we were dropping like a rock i can promise you i would be losing my shit like a right loon.
I can assure you bud i will be fucking raging if we keep up this apathetic attitude until the latter parts of games.
We can use this Watford win as a boost, well hopefully.

I think Pellegrini has reached his limits but those limits are very high and good enough to possibly win us another prem.

It is to early to get worried imo, as you say it is half way through the season.

For me the general tone of the club is something i take great happiness in. We are a robust business now in our own right and will be at the top fighting for the best prizes in football for the foreseeable future.
I am not a happy clapper by a long way but nor am i going to take the enjoyment out for myself right in the middle of the season when i should be enjoying it.

If you want a fan with something to really worry about go see a Utd mate hehe :-D

Mate, the vision I believe Sheikh Mansour has for Manchester City is more than just a points accumalating football team. Is this not what our holistic ethos is about? Isn't this why Ferran,Txiki and Pep have been sought to replicate a successful organisation and an entertaining team?

Every team can obviously quote that injuries have stunted their advances, but ours are no worse than most and on top of this, isn't this why we have a squad to deal with these eventualities?

Ramón Calderón has just done an interview where he questioned Real's Galactico policy where he sited that they may have some of the best players on the planet, but the fact they only have a 25% success rate against the top 7 teams in Spain shows they don't have the very best team. This is where a DoF and head coaches come in to make the difference, the tools are unquestionably there, but are they being used as effectively as they can be? I would say no and that comes down to one person and is the reason (if reports are to believed) Rafa Benitez has just been sacked a Real manager.

If we have players who no-one can motivate to perform at near their best, well they need to be moved on. But if it is the coach in charge who is failing to motivate his players, then unfortunately the future won't look promising for him either. Perhaps its a bit of both but In terms of motivation, how many times have we been getting mullered, the team has been all over the place and our leader has just sat on his hands doing nothing? Motivation be it on the training pitch, in the dressing room or during a match is part of his job and not just the responsibilty of the players to self motivate.

We had a rock solid defensive unit which was unnecessarily dismantled, did it need fixing? IMO no. What was needed when Manuel took over was evolution not revolution and looking at our recent performances in comparison to when he first came here, IMO we've regressed. Again, some players usefulness to us may have expired, but Manuel has been here for nearly 3 years which should be enough to plan for players who no longer fit the bill and need to be moved on and replaced accordingly. FFP or no FFP spending 40m or so on a defender hasn't guaranteed a solution to our defensive problems, its just given us a better than evens chance of success.

Can you honestly call out the players who you feel haven't shown the required desire or motivation? These are the players who cross the white line thinking 'fuck it, I can't be arsed today'. I honestly couldn't say I've ever seen overt indications of this but there does seem to be a collective lack of drive. Is it down to the players, Manager or both? Whatever's the problem, it looks like all of this could be academic mate, as many believe that whether we win, lose or draw the majority of our matches for the balance of the season that Pep Guardiola is on his way here in the summer.

In terms of ManUre and whether their fans have more to worry about or not, they can go fuck themselves!! :-)

 

[TCIB]

As you note it is a collective apathy, Watford showed it is not at anything close to a crisis point, in fact it was rather encouraging.

You note yourself other teams and the struggles they have at the top making it work for one reason or another.
It is hard even with (seemingly) all the pieces of the puzzle.

To be fair Joleon being sold was reasonable and Pellegrini has encountered an issue where no Kompany = no defence.
My feelings are if we did less than we have to try and sort it the forum would be going bat shit insane that we need to fix it and are not.

Sometimes issues are forced on you and no matter who you are the answer can be elusive. I certainly did not envisage us still being so weak without Kompany at the back.
I concede though this is a situation largely born out of tactics of pushing up a defensive unit that has not yet gelled. Trying to run before we can walk in that respect i think.
This is Pellegrini but we bought into this ideal when he signed a contract with us.

We were very happy with getting Pellegrini's brand of football and i was one of them. So as much as it grates sometimes i can't go nuts because the defence has suffered.
That said i did not think we would become this shaky at the back.