Discussion: Potential Pellegrini Replacements {merged}

  • Thread starter Deleted member 58678
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Is it not possible that Klopp is going to Bayern and Pep coming to us early, ie this summer
Klopp after all is well thought of at Bayern and PG may have been convinced by TB and Soriano to leave before the end of his contract with us paying compensation to both Bayern and Pep.

Just a thought but makes sense.
 
higgi1p said:
Is it not possible that Klopp is going to Bayern and Pep coming to us early, ie this summer
Klopp after all is well thought of at Bayern and PG may have been convinced by TB and Soriano to leave before the end of his contract with us paying compensation to both Bayern and Pep.

Just a thought but makes sense.

No chance of that happening either. Bayern have a chance of a clean sweep.
 
Damocles said:
mancity1 said:
Points well made and success at all the levels of the club are taken into account but part of Txiki's tenure rides on the success of the first team and his appointments and the ability of their appointments to achieve their targets which includes playing personnel as well.

All players must have targets , personal ones , collective ones , professional ones.

Targets are movable in fact and sometimes over a smaller portion of time for a variety of reasons but at the end of the day you are measured by those targets ( not goals as they are not targets don't confuse to two because sometimes they overlap and sometimes they are mutually exclusive ).

You can rightly criticise individuals that do not understand the roles and responsibilities of individuals at a organisation and defend them and your view on whether they are the Rolls Royce of DOF 's and CEO in the modern game of football a view which is hard to debate beyond subjective measures or inexact and conflicting boundaries in any case by any objective measure you choose to measure it by if you can find objectivity at all.

You will have trouble arguing your case if your decisions and the decisions based on those decisions fail to meet their targets often enough and fail to meet the expectation of your employers.

Even if Txiki was not solely responsible for our recruitment policy since he joined us in the eyes of his employers it would not necessarily follow that he not be held to account by his employers should that policy fail to meet the standard required.

I think we're on the same page here. I don't mind people criticising them for unmet goals in proper context or praising them for met goals. My issue is when people criticise them for things that are nothing to do with them.

I don't know what Soriano's goals were when he was signed up with the expansion of the CFG, the successful completion of the CFA and the new extension, the title last year and the amazing revenue growth then "he's done alright, no need to criticise" is fair if not underrating his performance.

Txiki's job was to take our squad and improve it when judged on a year by year basis as that's what the DoF job actually is when you simplify it. When people say things like "Fucking Txiki, look at De Jong and now we have Fernando!" it irritates me because of the about ten different problems with that idea. With the constantly shifting landscape beneath our feet in terms of player development, you can't just throw away people because they have a bad year or spunk money on people because they've had a good year though you also cannot rely on players who were good three years ago. Oh and you have to buy and sell responsibly with the club's money weighing up that long term cost for the price and do your Cost Benefit Analysis just like anyone else.

My problem here is that on a talent level our squad is better than last year. Our big priority was to get a young centre back who could forge a relationship over a few years with Kompany for number one. Our second priority was to get a right back who could take some pressure off of Zabaleta who was overplayed previously. Our third priority was to get a striker for our fourth choice to allow the "2 for every role" idea in a 2 striker system. Our fourth priority was to get a midfielder if we wanted to switch to a 3 man but could play in a 2 to help create further competition in that area which would in turn allow Milner more flexibility to play on the wings.

We did all of that, and not only did we do it but we did it for under £49m as limited by Financial Fair Play. Mangala provided competition to Demichelis with the idea of a long term replacement so his priority number one was nailed on as done. Sagna came in as a highly experienced right back who could compete with Zabaleta. Job done again. We didn't initially get a striker and this absolutely cost us over the winter period - a bad mark against Txiki which he rectified with the signing of Bony; if people were criticising him for missing a striker in summer then they've absolutely got a point and it was definitely a mistake. Our fourth "it would be nice" priority would be to bulk the centre midfield and make us less reliant on Yaya. We had £12m left after the above (though you could argue we had £37m for both a midfielder and a striker due to the Negredo money that later went on Bony) and we got what we could get with that money which was Fernando - another player who all of the scouts on here said was a midfield enforcer just like what we needed. Again, people looking him up and watching him at Porto weren't wrong and suddenly he's wank, he just hadn't had his performances this year. Oh and we bought in Lampard for nothing aswell.

Overall he had 5 priorities with 2 urgent ones in the long term centre back and backup right back departments. 3 of those priorities fell firmly into the "squad depth" department and we spent very little on them until Bony came available in Jan and we brought in another quality player. The missing priority was the left wing department which wasn't addressed but understandably so as number 5 on the shopping list for the squad when we have been financially limited and were struggling on a quality midfielder for price.

Most would believe this to be an excellent job if we won the league. Unfortunately the performances from the squad this season didn't achieve that which is entirely on the manager. No-one can argue that our squad is not good enough to win the league, the problem was extracting that performance from them. Again, not the Director's fault.

The two black marks against him this season are the lack of striker in summer which I think is fair and the lack of left winger which I think is probably a bit unfair given the restrictions we had. Everything else he has done has been great in terms of addressing problems in the squad.

Too often people confuse form and talent. Txiki's job is to buy talent. Pellers' job is to make them show form. We haven't bought any untalented players, they are all capable Champions League class players. In fact all of them outside of Bony who was the leading goalscorer in the league HAS Champions League experience and quite a lot of it.

This is what I mean when I say about people criticising him for shit that isn't his fault and that he hasn't done.

great sensible post.... But it goes totally against the general feeling that the 2 Barca cunts have fucked City up big time
 
Damocles said:
mancity1 said:
Points well made and success at all the levels of the club are taken into account but part of Txiki's tenure rides on the success of the first team and his appointments and the ability of their appointments to achieve their targets which includes playing personnel as well.

All players must have targets , personal ones , collective ones , professional ones.

Targets are movable in fact and sometimes over a smaller portion of time for a variety of reasons but at the end of the day you are measured by those targets ( not goals as they are not targets don't confuse to two because sometimes they overlap and sometimes they are mutually exclusive ).

You can rightly criticise individuals that do not understand the roles and responsibilities of individuals at a organisation and defend them and your view on whether they are the Rolls Royce of DOF 's and CEO in the modern game of football a view which is hard to debate beyond subjective measures or inexact and conflicting boundaries in any case by any objective measure you choose to measure it by if you can find objectivity at all.

You will have trouble arguing your case if your decisions and the decisions based on those decisions fail to meet their targets often enough and fail to meet the expectation of your employers.

Even if Txiki was not solely responsible for our recruitment policy since he joined us in the eyes of his employers it would not necessarily follow that he not be held to account by his employers should that policy fail to meet the standard required.

I think we're on the same page here. I don't mind people criticising them for unmet goals in proper context or praising them for met goals. My issue is when people criticise them for things that are nothing to do with them.

I don't know what Soriano's goals were when he was signed up with the expansion of the CFG, the successful completion of the CFA and the new extension, the title last year and the amazing revenue growth then "he's done alright, no need to criticise" is fair if not underrating his performance.

Txiki's job was to take our squad and improve it when judged on a year by year basis as that's what the DoF job actually is when you simplify it. When people say things like "Fucking Txiki, look at De Jong and now we have Fernando!" it irritates me because of the about ten different problems with that idea. With the constantly shifting landscape beneath our feet in terms of player development, you can't just throw away people because they have a bad year or spunk money on people because they've had a good year though you also cannot rely on players who were good three years ago. Oh and you have to buy and sell responsibly with the club's money weighing up that long term cost for the price and do your Cost Benefit Analysis just like anyone else.

My problem here is that on a talent level our squad is better than last year. Our big priority was to get a young centre back who could forge a relationship over a few years with Kompany for number one. Our second priority was to get a right back who could take some pressure off of Zabaleta who was overplayed previously. Our third priority was to get a striker for our fourth choice to allow the "2 for every role" idea in a 2 striker system. Our fourth priority was to get a midfielder if we wanted to switch to a 3 man but could play in a 2 to help create further competition in that area which would in turn allow Milner more flexibility to play on the wings.

We did all of that, and not only did we do it but we did it for under £49m as limited by Financial Fair Play. Mangala provided competition to Demichelis with the idea of a long term replacement so his priority number one was nailed on as done. Sagna came in as a highly experienced right back who could compete with Zabaleta. Job done again. We didn't initially get a striker and this absolutely cost us over the winter period - a bad mark against Txiki which he rectified with the signing of Bony; if people were criticising him for missing a striker in summer then they've absolutely got a point and it was definitely a mistake. Our fourth "it would be nice" priority would be to bulk the centre midfield and make us less reliant on Yaya. We had £12m left after the above (though you could argue we had £37m for both a midfielder and a striker due to the Negredo money that later went on Bony) and we got what we could get with that money which was Fernando - another player who all of the scouts on here said was a midfield enforcer just like what we needed. Again, people looking him up and watching him at Porto weren't wrong and suddenly he's wank, he just hadn't had his performances this year. Oh and we bought in Lampard for nothing aswell.

Overall he had 5 priorities with 2 urgent ones in the long term centre back and backup right back departments. 3 of those priorities fell firmly into the "squad depth" department and we spent very little on them until Bony came available in Jan and we brought in another quality player. The missing priority was the left wing department which wasn't addressed but understandably so as number 5 on the shopping list for the squad when we have been financially limited and were struggling on a quality midfielder for price.

Most would believe this to be an excellent job if we won the league. Unfortunately the performances from the squad this season didn't achieve that which is entirely on the manager. No-one can argue that our squad is not good enough to win the league, the problem was extracting that performance from them. Again, not the Director's fault.

The two black marks against him this season are the lack of striker in summer which I think is fair and the lack of left winger which I think is probably a bit unfair given the restrictions we had. Everything else he has done has been great in terms of addressing problems in the squad.

Too often people confuse form and talent. Txiki's job is to buy talent. Pellers' job is to make them show form. We haven't bought any untalented players, they are all capable Champions League class players. In fact all of them outside of Bony who was the leading goalscorer in the league HAS Champions League experience and quite a lot of it.

This is what I mean when I say about people criticising him for shit that isn't his fault and that he hasn't done.


99% agree with all of that, except that talent is a very subjective attribute. i'm not as convinced as you are that we have improved our squad talent.
And, it's not always the best option to buy the best talent and lay the blame at the manager for failing to harness that talent.
A manager could make a very good case for saying 'get me a less talented player with a better attitude or work ethic and I'll get more from him'.

We could all name a team of 11 fantastically talented players which would form a lousy team. And we could all name 11 less talented players who would make a fantastic team. Talent's not the be all and end all.
 
Fuck this Pep idea off City, it obviously just isn't meant to be. You can't write seasons off or tread water waiting for something that MIGHT happen. Thats just not what football is about.

Go all out for Klopp, get him in and get the club pulling in the same direction again.

With Klopp at the helm, some new top signings and the transfer budgets we have rumoured on here and the academy getting closer than ever to producing first team quality, we might finally see the club begin to achieve its undoubted potential.

Forget the Spanish model, Spain's time was 5 years ago. Its time for a German revolution.
 
Ray78 said:
higgi1p said:
Is it not possible that Klopp is going to Bayern and Pep coming to us early, ie this summer
Klopp after all is well thought of at Bayern and PG may have been convinced by TB and Soriano to leave before the end of his contract with us paying compensation to both Bayern and Pep.

Just a thought but makes sense.

No chance of that happening either. Bayern have a chance of a clean sweep.

Pretty sure Pep will be at Bayern next season even if they win the lot this season.
 
higgi1p said:
Is it not possible that Klopp is going to Bayern and Pep coming to us early, ie this summer
Klopp after all is well thought of at Bayern and PG may have been convinced by TB and Soriano to leave before the end of his contract with us paying compensation to both Bayern and Pep.

Just a thought but makes sense.

Real are our rivals.
 
BLUEMOONBAZ said:
bobmcfc said:
ONTHERUNWITHTHAKSIN said:
I'd say the majority would and the majority don't want us wasting any more time waiting for Pep.

Klopp may well be the long term solution in the end. We risk waiting around for a guy that might never come and where does that leave the club and team ? We must live in the here and now !
ONTHERUNWITHTHAKSIN said:
bobmcfc said:
Klopp may well be the long term solution in the end. We risk waiting around for a guy that might never come and where does that leave the club and team ? We must live in the here and now !

I totally agree and it may also be the Spanish duos last throw of the dice

I am tired of the Pep bandwagon I don't want to wait for him
If he wants to join us they do it now if not we move on and start the future now .
If it's klopp then fine give him a good deal and the time to to get the team working his way

We are also looking at filling the new expanded stadium and can't see the board saying look what we could have had but worry not the season after next we get better.
 
mancity1 said:
Ray78 said:
higgi1p said:
Is it not possible that Klopp is going to Bayern and Pep coming to us early, ie this summer
Klopp after all is well thought of at Bayern and PG may have been convinced by TB and Soriano to leave before the end of his contract with us paying compensation to both Bayern and Pep.

Just a thought but makes sense.

No chance of that happening either. Bayern have a chance of a clean sweep.

Pretty sure Pep will be at Bayern next season even if they win the lot this season.

He wins the Champions League and he may want to take another break and have a good look at the job market. Might not be at City (even if his one of his mates is at the club). Similar to what I have said about Klopp.
 

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