Discussion: Txiki Begiristain (2014/15)

[lancs blue]

Time to rebuild Txiki.

Clear out the expensive players that remain on the bench all season and big underperformers.

Get some 3-5 good players this window including a world class.

Reduce the squad size a bit so we can keep a more consistent lineup rotating only for the lesser games. Make it a mission to get some youngsters into the squad.

Yes, I think in the future we should aim to have a core of 18 or so top quality players made up to 25 with primarily academy graduates and a couple of utility squad players. Right now we have too many "fillers" in the squad.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

The everyone uses it, therefore it's right logic. Clubs use them for differing reasons - some use them to keep the transfer costs down others use them because they don't judge a managers judgment etc etc, on some occaisions they are used well and the DoB knows his stuff.
It's clear our summer signings haven't exactly gone too well despite a decent spend.
Is it ok to discuss our DoB's performance without the insults and disgusting accusations of xenophobia? Afterall you are Mr Logical Song these days.

Every club outside of Manchester United who have won the Champions League in the past 20 years uses the Director of Football model.

Every club outside of Manchester United who has won a league title in the top 5 leagues in the world in the past 15ish years uses the Director of Football model.

Every club who qualified for the knockouts of the Champions League uses the Director of Football model.

I don't know this offhand but could probably check and wouldn't be surprised to learn that every club in the Champions League uses the Director of Football model.

There is no debate in football about this model anywhere apart from in England and even then by an increasingly smaller and smaller number of fans who refuse to accept that the way they know is not the best way.

Criticise whatever you like put suggesting that you're skeptical about the DoF model is exactly like saying that you're skeptical of wing backs. If you say something so massively at odds with all results then you'd better have a decent argument to back it up. Otherwise you just come across as ill-informed about an issue that you're supposed to be debating. How is somebody expected to respect an opinion about the performance of a Director of Football when they have unsubstantiated and frankly bizarre opinions such as a "skepticism" over the entire model?

I agree. Some people also seem to want to change the director of football as often as the manager. But this is a 10 year job, and one or two bad transfer windows shouldn't be enough to see someone sacked, especially when I don't think you can reasonably argue that they were that bad. His remit since he got here has been to reduce the wage bill somewhat (or at least restructure it to be linked to performance) which to my knowledge he has done. And then address weaknesses in the squad, which he has done. Like everyone else, I've been disappointed with the lack of world class signings, but I think you have to look at the limitations he's been working under. But when you look at the players he has signed, they've always been what plenty of fans have been crying out for (long-term partner for Kompany, replacement for Barry, pacey winger, cover for Zabaleta, replacement for Negredo, etc). I think the fact that none of them have set the world on fire yet is simply the fact that he clearly hasn't had the mandate to go out and spend shitloads of money on world class players yet. He's had to address weaknesses in the squad on something of a budget, and I think he's largely found the right players. Obviously you can question the odd signing, but I think he has improved the squad every year, if not the first team. This summer, I'd like to see us look to properly add to the starting 11 with one or two world class signings, and the rumours seem to suggest he's got a licence to do that this year.

 

[LoveCity]

Job is under threat according to James Ducker of The Times. I find that a bit hard to believe personally, especially if he's already working on deals like De Bruyne. I think he deserves at least one more summer to get his transfers right as his first lot were good (within the context of that season, if not so much long-term). And some of our recent rumoured targets (like Pogba, Bale, Sterling) are more exciting than some of the ones that came before (like Cresswell, Ljajic, Barkley).

I know he isn't faultless but what about some of our scouts? They will recommend these players to Txiki and assess their quality and how well they'd fit in. Like I doubt Txiki watched Mangala every week, that'd be Rob Newman's job and he'd make the recommendation with Txiki and the club putting trust in his dossiers.

 

[GoMancini7]

From 2014 summer signings only Fernandinho started today. Navas came on sub, Negredo sold, Jovetic axed from squad lol, Bony with hardly any impact, Fernando the one we brought in to make us solid in CL also doesnt play, Mangala out of squad, Sagna is on good wages but what else he does I dont know. (Arsenal are no worse with playing the young Bellerin instead of him. )

These kind of signings wont improve us in CL.

Yet biggest problem is not the squad but more like the mentality of players. Play with same mentality or accept same lack of work rate from Pogba, Bale etc after summer we end up the same way...

 

[sam-caddick]

Job is under threat according to James Ducker of The Times. I find that a bit hard to believe personally, especially if he's already working on deals like De Bruyne. I think he deserves at least one more summer to get his transfers right as his first lot were good (within the context of that season, if not so much long-term). And some of our recent rumoured targets (like Pogba, Bale, Sterling) are more exciting than some of the ones that came before (like Cresswell, Ljajic, Barkley).

I know he isn't faultless but what about some of our scouts? They will recommend these players to Txiki and assess their quality and how well they'd fit in. Like I doubt Txiki watched Mangala every week, that'd be Rob Newman's job and he'd make the recommendation with Txiki and the club putting trust in his dossiers.

I think Txiki will know if he messes up this summer he will be gone.

He might not just have to get the recruitment correct but also a managerial appointment.

The worry for City is because it looks like we have such a huge rebuild to do we could do a United and drop out the top 4 for a season, one step back two steps forward kind of thing.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

The everyone uses it, therefore it's right logic. Clubs use them for differing reasons - some use them to keep the transfer costs down others use them because they don't judge a managers judgment etc etc, on some occaisions they are used well and the DoB knows his stuff.
It's clear our summer signings haven't exactly gone too well despite a decent spend.
Is it ok to discuss our DoB's performance without the insults and disgusting accusations of xenophobia? Afterall you are Mr Logical Song these days.

Every club outside of Manchester United who have won the Champions League in the past 20 years uses the Director of Football model.

Every club outside of Manchester United who has won a league title in the top 5 leagues in the world in the past 15ish years uses the Director of Football model.

Every club who qualified for the knockouts of the Champions League uses the Director of Football model.

I don't know this offhand but could probably check and wouldn't be surprised to learn that every club in the Champions League uses the Director of Football model.

There is no debate in football about this model anywhere apart from in England and even then by an increasingly smaller and smaller number of fans who refuse to accept that the way they know is not the best way.

Criticise whatever you like put suggesting that you're skeptical about the DoF model is exactly like saying that you're skeptical of wing backs. If you say something so massively at odds with all results then you'd better have a decent argument to back it up. Otherwise you just come across as ill-informed about an issue that you're supposed to be debating. How is somebody expected to respect an opinion about the performance of a Director of Football when they have unsubstantiated and frankly bizarre opinions such as a "skepticism" over the entire model?

I agree. Some people also seem to want to change the director of football as often as the manager. But this is a 10 year job, and one or two bad transfer windows shouldn't be enough to see someone sacked, especially when I don't think you can reasonably argue that they were that bad. His remit since he got here has been to reduce the wage bill somewhat (or at least restructure it to be linked to performance) which to my knowledge he has done. And then address weaknesses in the squad, which he has done. Like everyone else, I've been disappointed with the lack of world class signings, but I think you have to look at the limitations he's been working under. But when you look at the players he has signed, they've always been what plenty of fans have been crying out for (long-term partner for Kompany, replacement for Barry, pacey winger, cover for Zabaleta, replacement for Negredo, etc). I think the fact that none of them have set the world on fire yet is simply the fact that he clearly hasn't had the mandate to go out and spend shitloads of money on world class players yet. He's had to address weaknesses in the squad on something of a budget, and I think he's largely found the right players. Obviously you can question the odd signing, but I think he has improved the squad every year, if not the first team. This summer, I'd like to see us look to properly add to the starting 11 with one or two world class signings, and the rumours seem to suggest he's got a licence to do that this year.

Our squad is no better than it was last year. Fernando, Lampard, Sagna, Managala have added nothing to the level of our play.

It's the style of play that concerns me more, one dimensional and found out months ago. Even tonight we tried to play our slow tippy tappy shit first half against the masters of it! It doesn't work anymore yet it looks to me like they will stick at it regardless.

If Pep is coming then fine but I somehow get the feeling he isn't and we will just install managers who will sing to the tune of the dof.

I'm not against a DOF, just this one.

 

[flb]

The everyone uses it, therefore it's right logic. Clubs use them for differing reasons - some use them to keep the transfer costs down others use them because they don't judge a managers judgment etc etc, on some occaisions they are used well and the DoB knows his stuff.
It's clear our summer signings haven't exactly gone too well despite a decent spend.
Is it ok to discuss our DoB's performance without the insults and disgusting accusations of xenophobia? Afterall you are Mr Logical Song these days.

Every club outside of Manchester United who have won the Champions League in the past 20 years uses the Director of Football model.

Every club outside of Manchester United who has won a league title in the top 5 leagues in the world in the past 15ish years uses the Director of Football model.

Every club who qualified for the knockouts of the Champions League uses the Director of Football model.

I don't know this offhand but could probably check and wouldn't be surprised to learn that every club in the Champions League uses the Director of Football model.

There is no debate in football about this model anywhere apart from in England and even then by an increasingly smaller and smaller number of fans who refuse to accept that the way they know is not the best way.

Criticise whatever you like put suggesting that you're skeptical about the DoF model is exactly like saying that you're skeptical of wing backs. If you say something so massively at odds with all results then you'd better have a decent argument to back it up. Otherwise you just come across as ill-informed about an issue that you're supposed to be debating. How is somebody expected to respect an opinion about the performance of a Director of Football when they have unsubstantiated and frankly bizarre opinions such as a "skepticism" over the entire model?

I agree. Some people also seem to want to change the director of football as often as the manager. But this is a 10 year job, and one or two bad transfer windows shouldn't be enough to see someone sacked, especially when I don't think you can reasonably argue that they were that bad. His remit since he got here has been to reduce the wage bill somewhat (or at least restructure it to be linked to performance) which to my knowledge he has done. And then address weaknesses in the squad, which he has done. Like everyone else, I've been disappointed with the lack of world class signings, but I think you have to look at the limitations he's been working under. But when you look at the players he has signed, they've always been what plenty of fans have been crying out for (long-term partner for Kompany, replacement for Barry, pacey winger, cover for Zabaleta, replacement for Negredo, etc). I think the fact that none of them have set the world on fire yet is simply the fact that he clearly hasn't had the mandate to go out and spend shitloads of money on world class players yet. He's had to address weaknesses in the squad on something of a budget, and I think he's largely found the right players. Obviously you can question the odd signing, but I think he has improved the squad every year, if not the first team. This summer, I'd like to see us look to properly add to the starting 11 with one or two world class signings, and the rumours seem to suggest he's got a licence to do that this year.

If he doesn't get the next window right mate he will be fucked off back to Spain and the ten year plan will be flushed down the toilet.

He made some questionable transfers whilst being DoF at Barca,for a club he had a long standing career with in a league he knew inside out, why we should think he's an expert on the PL and the mentality in this country is a valid question.

 

[sam663]

I know he isn't faultless but what about some of our scouts? They will recommend these players to Txiki and assess their quality and how well they'd fit in. Like I doubt Txiki watched Mangala every week, that'd be Rob Newman's job and he'd make the recommendation with Txiki and the club putting trust in his dossiers.

It all comes down to the person in charge, even in 2010-2011 we scouted both Moutinho and Verratti. Di Maria was offered to us but we bought Navas, we opted in favour of Jovetic when we could have bought Eriksen.

 

[Damocles]

The everyone uses it, therefore it's right logic. Clubs use them for differing reasons - some use them to keep the transfer costs down others use them because they don't judge a managers judgment etc etc, on some occaisions they are used well and the DoB knows his stuff.
It's clear our summer signings haven't exactly gone too well despite a decent spend.
Is it ok to discuss our DoB's performance without the insults and disgusting accusations of xenophobia? Afterall you are Mr Logical Song these days.

Every club outside of Manchester United who have won the Champions League in the past 20 years uses the Director of Football model.

Every club outside of Manchester United who has won a league title in the top 5 leagues in the world in the past 15ish years uses the Director of Football model.

Every club who qualified for the knockouts of the Champions League uses the Director of Football model.

I don't know this offhand but could probably check and wouldn't be surprised to learn that every club in the Champions League uses the Director of Football model.

There is no debate in football about this model anywhere apart from in England and even then by an increasingly smaller and smaller number of fans who refuse to accept that the way they know is not the best way.

Criticise whatever you like put suggesting that you're skeptical about the DoF model is exactly like saying that you're skeptical of wing backs. If you say something so massively at odds with all results then you'd better have a decent argument to back it up. Otherwise you just come across as ill-informed about an issue that you're supposed to be debating. How is somebody expected to respect an opinion about the performance of a Director of Football when they have unsubstantiated and frankly bizarre opinions such as a "skepticism" over the entire model?

I agree. Some people also seem to want to change the director of football as often as the manager. But this is a 10 year job, and one or two bad transfer windows shouldn't be enough to see someone sacked, especially when I don't think you can reasonably argue that they were that bad. His remit since he got here has been to reduce the wage bill somewhat (or at least restructure it to be linked to performance) which to my knowledge he has done. And then address weaknesses in the squad, which he has done. Like everyone else, I've been disappointed with the lack of world class signings, but I think you have to look at the limitations he's been working under. But when you look at the players he has signed, they've always been what plenty of fans have been crying out for (long-term partner for Kompany, replacement for Barry, pacey winger, cover for Zabaleta, replacement for Negredo, etc). I think the fact that none of them have set the world on fire yet is simply the fact that he clearly hasn't had the mandate to go out and spend shitloads of money on world class players yet. He's had to address weaknesses in the squad on something of a budget, and I think he's largely found the right players. Obviously you can question the odd signing, but I think he has improved the squad every year, if not the first team. This summer, I'd like to see us look to properly add to the starting 11 with one or two world class signings, and the rumours seem to suggest he's got a licence to do that this year.

This is the most frustrating thing that I think most on here don't understand.

The entire purpose for the Director of Football coming into prevalence was because the patience with managers from the fans and thus the board was dropping rapidly. Where we used to give managers two years just to bed in, no they're lucky if they get two weeks before the radio phone ins are plagued with doubts. This created an issue at clubs where there was a severe lack of continuity between the management teams in terms of the growth of each football individually and the composition of the squad as a whole.

The DoF was brought in as a role to be that continuity. They have a brief to consider the long term whereas the manager's are concerned with winning games.

You don't judge their performance over one or two windows, you do it over 5 year stretches

I also think that the problem with Txiki that some people have is just because he's a Spanish bloke who worked for Barca. I used to get terrorised on here for suggesting that Brian Marwood, the guy who was signing Santa Cruz, Adebayor, Kolo Toure, Johnson, Savic, Rodwell, Sinclair, Javi Garcia and the like for pretty big money but selling them for almost £0 might have been out of his depth somewhat. And that was after he'd been here for 4 years with an unlimited budget.

Txiki has been here for two summers, one ended in a League and Cup Double and the other was restricted by FFP to a £60m spend, but he's the guy who should be thrown out despite getting pretty much what we paid for people like Garcia, Rodwell and Negredo - players Marwood would have sold for £5, a choc ice and a Curly Wurly. Funny really.

 

[Silva_Spell]

Look at the Barca bench tonight. I bet they cost, in fees and wages, a tiny amount compared to ours. Barca do OK.

Need more 'marque' players in the team. If that means less expensive players in the rest of the squad, fine.