Discussion: Txiki Begiristain (2014/15)

[Damocles]

Mancini set loads of City records.

More than Pellegrini.

I'm not having it that people don't see the massive, gaping, huge, staring you right in the face logical problem with this argument. You're grown men ffs.

 

[Akira]

Mancini was sacked because of his managerial approach towards the backroom.

Pelles was brought in, but he has shown to not be an improvement on Manc.
Txiki is in charge of bringing in the players. He failed, miserably.

IMO, they should be rid off.

 

[blueinsa]

Mancini was sacked because of his managerial approach towards the backroom.

Pelles was brought in, but he has shown to not be an improvement on Manc.
Txiki is in charge of bringing in the players. He failed, miserably.

IMO, they should be rid off.

How can a man that won a domestic cup and league title like Bob yet managed to progress us in Europe not an improvement or at the very least, equal in achievements?

Both very good managers who did very good jobs but neither top drawer.

 

[Mancitybluemoon1]

Yeah. People are getting carried away with a bad run of form.

We've got one of the best squads in the league already. Just not playing to its full capability.

Sadly, we might have "one of the best" squads but no longer have the "best" squad and that's what it will take to win the Prem next season....most of our best players have been in place for many years and are sadly playing off their name this season.....nothing in our performance this season shows we have the best squad any longer....great players have poor games but not poor seasons...It took many fans most of this year to see that Dzeko is no longer good enough to carry us in the CL or to be prem champs....People like Dzeko played their best in past years but the hunger is gone and we will not have a chance of winning the Prem until we ship 3 or 4 of them out...not only do we need to sell but Txiki has to do a better job of replacing the squad with talent, that fits out system......The problem is every game the team is carrying a couple of players that is not giving 100%...whether its Yaya or Dzeko or Fernando....no matter what game or team we play there is a weakness that teams are finding.....We might be a top 5 team still but after the money and support of the owners....top 5 is falling way short of where this team needs to be......

If we played with this same squad next year then it would be there for all to see no matter who was in charge that this squad has run its lot.

It was never good enough to earn any respect in Europe as a side to be reckoned with and now its not good enough to challenge for the title anymore.

If we don't replace the likes of Zabba, Clichy, Kolorov, Nasri, Fernando , Milner, Yaya , Boyata, Richards, Dzeko , Jovetic over the next two , three windows tops we shall see us struggle to qualify for Europa least of all Chumps League.

You can fall off the perch quickly unless you improve the squad each season you slip down the ladder quickly.

We haven't improved our starting eleven since 2011/12 when you get to the bear bones and other teams like Arsenal , Manure, Chelsea have.

Completely agree mate....none of us wants to admit it but your right "this squad has run its lot" and major changes need to happen...if we try to head into next season with the same starting 11 we wont win anything next year.......

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Mancini was sacked because of his managerial approach towards the backroom.

Pelles was brought in, but he has shown to not be an improvement on Manc.
Txiki is in charge of bringing in the players. He failed, miserably.

IMO, they should be rid off.

How can a man that won a domestic cup and league title like Bob yet managed to progress us in Europe not an improvement or at the very least, equal in achievements?

Both very good managers who did very good jobs but neither top drawer.

Exactly. This is the nub of it in a nutshell. Before the run of bad results, even I said that Pellegrini was unfortunately not the man to take us forward that final step. TB (who this thread is about let me remind people) has to find that man this time or he's failed.

 

[blueinsa]

Mancini was sacked because of his managerial approach towards the backroom.

Pelles was brought in, but he has shown to not be an improvement on Manc.
Txiki is in charge of bringing in the players. He failed, miserably.

IMO, they should be rid off.

How can a man that won a domestic cup and league title like Bob yet managed to progress us in Europe not an improvement or at the very least, equal in achievements?

Both very good managers who did very good jobs but neither top drawer.

Exactly. This is the nub of it in a nutshell. Before the run of bad results, even I said that Pellegrini was unfortunately not the man to take us forward that final step. TB (who this thread is about let me remind people) has to find that man this time or he's failed.

Agreed. Whilst the DoF role is firmly established within the game now I've never been a fan, especially when it comes to first team affairs. Call me old fashioned but you pick a manager and back his judgement on players. How any coach can just be given players he might not want or need and then be expected to produce results week in, week out is beyond me and its unfair, especially if its the coach who carries the can all the time.

I have no issue with Txiki at the moment as he is a proven operator but we cant keep making the same mistakes any more and he has to prove to Khaldoon and Mansour that he can make his model work, short and long term.

 

[Damocles]

Mancini was sacked because of his managerial approach towards the backroom.

Pelles was brought in, but he has shown to not be an improvement on Manc.
Txiki is in charge of bringing in the players. He failed, miserably.

IMO, they should be rid off.

How can a man that won a domestic cup and league title like Bob yet managed to progress us in Europe not an improvement or at the very least, equal in achievements?

Both very good managers who did very good jobs but neither top drawer.

Exactly. This is the nub of it in a nutshell. Before the run of bad results, even I said that Pellegrini was unfortunately not the man to take us forward that final step. TB (who this thread is about let me remind people) has to find that man this time or he's failed.

We needed a person to come in and steady ship whilst maintaining a title challenge/top four whilst we got over FFP hurdles.

Pellegrini won a double in his first year and has struggled in his second, where the lack of spending power forced compromises. In 2 years he's been here he has won the league once and got us out of the group stages on both occasions. That is absolutely not a failure at all and it's only people wrapped up in the current results.

During that time Txiki signed numerous players to a new structured contract which dropped their up-front wages and saved the club millions on its wage bill, wrapping up some of our biggest names to new, long term deals. He has also got some frankly absurd sale values on players despite them not playing for City or not performing to any respectable standard.

DoFs are judged over 5 year periods. That is the entire point of them. He's had 2 and a bit years, one of them with his hands tied behind his back in the transfer market.

And you well know that Pellegrini would have been a joint decision by Txiki, Soriano and Khaldoon. Funny how nobody every says Khaldoon should be sacked for mismanagement despite appointing Mancini, giving him a new deal when he was going to be sacked the next year and authorising hundreds of millions on needless transfers. Apparently this man is completely innocent of all and any decisions and instead it's that dastardly Spanish duo who are ruining everything. It's ridiculous.

 

[dancity19]

How can a man that won a domestic cup and league title like Bob yet managed to progress us in Europe not an improvement or at the very least, equal in achievements?

Both very good managers who did very good jobs but neither top drawer.

Exactly. This is the nub of it in a nutshell. Before the run of bad results, even I said that Pellegrini was unfortunately not the man to take us forward that final step. TB (who this thread is about let me remind people) has to find that man this time or he's failed.

We needed a person to come in and steady ship whilst maintaining a title challenge/top four whilst we got over FFP hurdles.

Pellegrini won a double in his first year and has struggled in his second, where the lack of spending power forced compromises. In 2 years he's been here he has won the league once and got us out of the group stages on both occasions. That is absolutely not a failure at all and it's only people wrapped up in the current results.

During that time Txiki signed numerous players to a new structured contract which dropped their up-front wages and saved the club millions on its wage bill, wrapping up some of our biggest names to new, long term deals. He has also got some frankly absurd sale values on players despite them not playing for City or not performing to any respectable standard.

DoFs are judged over 5 year periods. That is the entire point of them. He's had 2 and a bit years, one of them with his hands tied behind his back in the transfer market.

And you well know that Pellegrini would have been a joint decision by Txiki, Soriano and Khaldoon. Funny how nobody every says Khaldoon should be sacked for mismanagement despite appointing Mancini, giving him a new deal when he was going to be sacked the next year and authorising hundreds of millions on needless transfers. Apparently this man is completely innocent of all and any decisions and instead it's that dastardly Spanish duo who are ruining everything. It's ridiculous.

I doubt they would wait 5 years if they believed he wasn't performing as he should be. I'm not saying I don't, it's just an observation. When a business has had such a vast amount of money pumped in to it, the investors/owners/shareholders don't wait 5 years. If they believe it's been mismanaged, they sack the management team. Anyway, that's not the point.

You say his hands were tied last summer:
- yes, they were in terms of our recent spending, BUT, with our restriction in mind, I think 2 key decisions could have been handled better:

1) spending 60% of that money on a relatively unknown CB? I still hold out hope for Mangala, and you could well argue that Pellegrini is to blame - could he set up a defence Mangala may be a world beater, who knows. But still, spending that money, when we had restrictions, on an unproven player, in a position we needed to strengthen was a risk. And compare that to how much Chelsea got Zouma for.

2) It was clear Negredo wanted/had to go all summer. Selling him on the last day of the window (albeit for a very good fee) was a terrible decision - leaving us with 2 genuine strikers (1 of which is injury prone, the other incredibly inconsistent) and a 2nd striker who is even more injury prone.

 

[Damocles]

I doubt they would wait 5 years if they believed he wasn't performing as he should be.

You cannot judge what level of a job he is doing apart from on that sort of timescales outside of a massive disaster which he hasn't been.

Managers used to work at a club for 5 years. Now they last a year or two. People recognised this problem and shifted squad responsibility to the DoF rather than giving every manager a blank cheque every single year because they are businesses and have to be responsible about their spending. Let me give you an analogy so that you can understand why this thing is so irritating.

Talking about a DoF's job ability after two years is like talking about a manager's job ability after two months. Outside of major disasters or major successes which Txiki has been neither, you cannot possibly have enough information to judge his performance. THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF HIS JOB. He isn't here to buy players, though it is part of his job, he is here to improve the squad over seasons and he hadn't had seasons.

Pellegrini's job is a sprint and can be judged as such. Txiki's job is a marathon and nobody on here is informed enough to know if he's starting quickly or going for a late burst or a consistent speed or anything else because we're only two miles into it. This is my entire point - people don't have the information necessary to judge his job performance yet so are literally just criticising him for things that are either absolutely not his fault or things that aren't his job. The Director of Football role is not a hard thing that is at odds with the way that everybody thinks about football

Seriously, I cannot fathom why this is so difficult a concept for people to understand. Well obviously I can and people perfectly understand this but instead do the same poor trail of logic whereby they are pissed off and want to blame somebody and think "yeah, that's sort of his fault in a roundabout sort of way if you squint" which then other people take to mean that it is his fault.

Tell you what clues me in immediately that people don't know what they're talking about with this stuff - people post after a defeat that he should be sacked or that a player he bought played crap. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what his job is.

 

[Rösler von Stretfordbömber]

I doubt they would wait 5 years if they believed he wasn't performing as he should be.

You cannot judge what level of a job he is doing apart from on that sort of timescales outside of a massive disaster which he hasn't been.

Managers used to work at a club for 5 years. Now they last a year or two. People recognised this problem and shifted squad responsibility to the DoF rather than giving every manager a blank cheque every single year because they are businesses and have to be responsible about their spending. Let me give you an analogy so that you can understand why this thing is so irritating.

Talking about a DoF's job ability after two years is like talking about a manager's job ability after two months. Outside of major disasters or major successes which Txiki has been neither, you cannot possibly have enough information to judge his performance. THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF HIS JOB. He isn't here to buy players, though it is part of his job, he is here to improve the squad over seasons and he hadn't had seasons.

Pellegrini's job is a sprint and can be judged as such. Txiki's job is a marathon and nobody on here is informed enough to know if he's starting quickly or going for a late burst or a consistent speed or anything else because we're only two miles into it. This is my entire point - people don't have the information necessary to judge his job performance yet so are literally just criticising him for things that are either absolutely not his fault or things that aren't his job. The Director of Football role is not a hard thing that is at odds with the way that everybody thinks about football

Seriously, I cannot fathom why this is so difficult a concept for people to understand. Well obviously I can and people perfectly understand this but instead do the same poor trail of logic whereby they are pissed off and want to blame somebody and think "yeah, that's sort of his fault in a roundabout sort of way if you squint" which then other people take to mean that it is his fault.

Tell you what clues me in immediately that people don't know what they're talking about with this stuff - people post after a defeat that he should be sacked or that a player he bought played crap. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what his job is.

Not to disagree with you in any way, but what clues me in that people don't know what they are talking about is when TB is blamed for the Summer 2012 transfer season.

I bet there are no fewer than 30 separate instances of this that one could easily find in this thread and elsewhere within about 5 minutes.