Dispatches/Sunday Times investigation: Russell Brand accused of rape and sexual assault

[M18CTID]

More often than not, for me, when other women come forward after the initial story breaks, that tends to be the tell. If 3 or 4 women come forward and then it snowballs in the weeks afterwards you can quietly assume (even if it's just to yourself) that even if the accused doesn't end up behind bars, a little mark will forever hang over them.

That's not to say a lack of supporting allegations means the accused is innocent, but for example I've always been largely sympathetic over what happened to Aziz Ansari, which (with full hindsight) just sounded like a bad date with some confused communication. Nobody else came forward, it was just a bad night that sort of cost him his career.

But this with Russell clearly isn't a one-time thing. It's repeated incidents with women who don't know each other, haven't met each other, and haven't coordinated any of this. And now there are more and more incidents being reported on, the details of which we'll find out about soon. Said on Saturday to my partner, this isn't the end.

Cos as much as the documentary focused on the 4/5 women who had already come forward, there were loads of allusions to him seeking out female audience members at various shows he hosted, and other things like that. I imagine enough of them have stories to tell for these new accusations to be taken very, very seriously.

Yep, agree with all of that. The more people that come forward, the more a pattern of behaviour emerges. If it then snowballs into dozens of people then I think it starts to look really bad for the accused because it's highly unlikely that they will all be be bogus claims.

Granted that the usual caveats of innocent until proven guilty apply here but the impression I'm getting from Saturday's programme is that the girls who were in a relationship with him were the ones who seemed to be most at risk from some kind of illegal behaviour, whereas those who indulged in the consensual one-off encounters weren't subjected to that. Maybe he has this arrogant, and utterly abhorrent attitude that if he's in a relationship then he's entitled to get what he wants even if the girl doesn't consent.

 

[splinter]

Trouble at mill

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

More often than not, for me, when other women come forward after the initial story breaks, that tends to be the tell. If 3 or 4 women come forward and then it snowballs in the weeks afterwards you can quietly assume (even if it's just to yourself) that even if the accused doesn't end up behind bars, a little mark will forever hang over them.

That's not to say a lack of supporting allegations means the accused is innocent, but for example I've always been largely sympathetic over what happened to Aziz Ansari, which (with full hindsight) just sounded like a bad date with some confused communication. Nobody else came forward, it was just a bad night that sort of cost him his career.

But this with Russell clearly isn't a one-time thing. It's repeated incidents with women who don't know each other, haven't met each other, and haven't coordinated any of this. And now there are more and more incidents being reported on, the details of which we'll find out about soon. Said on Saturday to my partner, this isn't the end.

Cos as much as the documentary focused on the 4/5 women who had already come forward, there were loads of allusions to him seeking out female audience members at various shows he hosted, and other things like that. I imagine enough of them have stories to tell for these new accusations to be taken very, very seriously.

There are so many parallels in the way Jimmy Savile and Russell Brand operated it’s really sickening.

 

[Stephen230]

More often than not, for me, when other women come forward after the initial story breaks, that tends to be the tell. If 3 or 4 women come forward and then it snowballs in the weeks afterwards you can quietly assume (even if it's just to yourself) that even if the accused doesn't end up behind bars, a little mark will forever hang over them.

That's not to say a lack of supporting allegations means the accused is innocent, but for example I've always been largely sympathetic over what happened to Aziz Ansari, which (with full hindsight) just sounded like a bad date with some confused communication. Nobody else came forward, it was just a bad night that sort of cost him his career.

But this with Russell clearly isn't a one-time thing. It's repeated incidents with women who don't know each other, haven't met each other, and haven't coordinated any of this. And now there are more and more incidents being reported on, the details of which we'll find out about soon. Said on Saturday to my partner, this isn't the end.

Cos as much as the documentary focused on the 4/5 women who had already come forward, there were loads of allusions to him seeking out female audience members at various shows he hosted, and other things like that. I imagine enough of them have stories to tell for these new accusations to be taken very, very seriously.

The person who initiated the investigation. Think she’s called Charlotte somebody from The Sunday Times, said on the radio that they have compelling evidence from many more women. They just decided to run with the 4 or 5 with the strongest amount of evidence. To start with at least.

 

[bluethrunthru]

fuck me its a twisted world we live in where Andrew Pierce is the good guy in this instance

 

[inbetween]

There is nowhere that I've said I presumed guilt.

My point was that assuming innocence, just because it's not gone to court IS taking sides.

I am suggesting that's a ridiculous standard, particularly in a situation where we know that most rapes won't result in a conviction.

You have to assume innocence because that's the whole point of the legal system. It isn't taking sides, it's the default position. I am on the side of the women involved because they have come forward and their case should be heard. However I'm also on the side of the legal system, nobody can punish or attack Brand or do anything else until a case is proven.

I agree, rapes don't always result in convictions but we can't change the legal system to ensure that convictions do happen. The way to improve the conviction rate is to educate women and make it as easy as possible for women to report it through the Police. The Police also have to get better at investigating and the CPS in how it charges people.

What will be lost in this is the whole thing will become a story about the personality of Russell Brand and not the simple fact that the women involved have (hopefully) come forward to get justice. Unfortunately in the media and opinion no-one actually cares about these women, they only care about the outrage and punishing the person involved.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

fuck me its a twisted world we live in where Andrew Pierce is the good guy in this instance

Looks like a staged argument.

I know from the quality of production, it doesn't look like it but presumably they have rehearsals or a quick run-through of what bollocks they are going to talk about today.

 

[Blue Lorry]

He’ll keep his cult.
There’s no limit to the stupidity of some people.

Methinks he’ll get a few more on board! It’s just the way of some people who want to believe they are more intellectual by subscribing to the ‘they know better than you brigade’, anything to feed their inferiority complexes as they can’t think for themselves.

 

[Coatigan]

fuck me its a twisted world we live in where Andrew Pierce is the good guy in this instance

Who actually watches shit like that?

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Methinks he’ll get a few more on board! It’s just the way of some people who want to believe they are more intellectual by subscribing to the ‘they know better than you brigade’, anything to feed their inferiority complexes as they can’t think for themselves.

Their argument seems to be something like this.

“He can’t have raped those women as jet fuel can’t melt steel beams.”