Do you support the RMT?

DiscoSteve said:
nope - unions are one eyed organisations
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On the contrary, you're the one with myopia here. Maybe you should reconsider taking for granted your holidays, sick pay, better/safer working conditions, higher wages, weekends and all the other benefits that trade unions have achieved for ordinary working people, because none of these things would have been provided out of the goodness of mill owner types' hearts.
Unless, of course, you are a mill owner type.
 
BTH said:
On the contrary, you're the one with myopia here. Maybe you should reconsider taking for granted your holidays, sick pay, better/safer working conditions, higher wages, weekends and all the other benefits that trade unions have achieved for ordinary working people, because none of these things would have been provided out of the goodness of mill owner types' hearts.
Unless, of course, you are a mill owner type.
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Spot on. People like DiscoSteve must seem to think all of the benefits workers enjoy are because the employers have a heart.
 
metalblue said:
TBF I recently saw a video of a TESLA ploughing through a stationary car on the road that was sideways on. It didn’t see it. So would a train always see a car across the line?

They’ll need to be more fail safes than just can a train see something - I think today if a train goes through a red light the train will autonomously brake. You’d need staff in “train traffic control” to monitor line crossings etc. Then I wonder if someone jumps in front of a train would anyone notice? This leads me to think we need some sort of driver presence. That doesn’t necessarily mean physically in the cab but I’m sure you could have a “driver” monitor 4 trains simultaneously on a computer screen in “train traffic control” centre.

Tech is magic and AI is incredible but a human has AI … actual intelligence.
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Driverless trains are in operation all over the world already and have been for 50 years, the Americans started using them in the 70s.

List of driverless train systems - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
hampshireblue said:
Spot on. People like DiscoSteve must seem to think all of the benefits workers enjoy are because the employers have a heart.
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anybody who thinks like that is not asking the question about where we are today NOT historic victories in the past (sounds like United fans right?) - what is wrong with unions is that they think that the protection of workers rights and pay is THE ONLY thing that matters - well guess, it isn't, and more and more and more it is getting less and less important
 
DiscoSteve said:
anybody who thinks like that is not asking the question about where we are today NOT historic victories in the past (sounds like United fans right?) - what is wrong with unions is that they think that the protection of workers rights and pay is THE ONLY thing that matters - well guess, it isn't, and more and more and more it is getting less and less important
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Workers rights and pay are getting less and less important? Not sure I agree.
 
DiscoSteve said:
anybody who thinks like that is not asking the question about where we are today NOT historic victories in the past (sounds like United fans right?) - what is wrong with unions is that they think that the protection of workers rights and pay is THE ONLY thing that matters - well guess, it isn't, and more and more and more it is getting less and less important
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So having been on the union executive where, on the onset of C19, the staff had just received a 4% pay rise. It quickly became apparent that the business was going to struggle. We promptly suggested and agreed to rescind the pay rise to ensure the company would have sufficient cash flow to get through the near/medium term. A deal was done that included no management bonuses to be paid until such time as the pay rise had been re-instated. Guess who bust the agreement first and paid bonuses, despite the income of the business being about 50% of normal.

EDIT:

By far the first aim of a union is the health and safety of its' members. Terms and conditions come well behind that primary aim. Without H&S, the rest is meaningless. And if you don't believe me, watch the BBC series that's just been on about the Piper Alpha explosion. 167 dead and completely avoidable. Profit before safety.

Pragmatism is important on both sides, but in my experience of over 25 years involved, it is never the staff side that bust agreements.
 
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domalino said:
Driverless trains are in operation all over the world already and have been for 50 years, the Americans started using them in the 70s.

List of driverless train systems - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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Since the 70's you say? So they would have been INVESTING in their railways to enable it to happen? As I recall the 70's was when a process began on NOT investing in railways to prepare them for privatisation which led to future lack of investment
 
DiscoSteve said:
anybody who thinks like that is not asking the question about where we are today NOT historic victories in the past (sounds like United fans right?) - what is wrong with unions is that they think that the protection of workers rights and pay is THE ONLY thing that matters - well guess, it isn't, and more and more and more it is getting less and less important
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You clearly don't know what you're talking about.
 
domalino said:
Driverless trains are in operation all over the world already and have been for 50 years, the Americans started using them in the 70s.

List of driverless train systems - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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Have a listen to LBC at 1140 this morning. This is not, in the main, about the drivers. It's about the maintenance and signalling staff. Most of the drivers are arriving at work, but as the maintenance and signalling staff are the ones on strike, they can't drive the trains. Not reported generally as the drivers are the higher paid and it's more newsworthy to get the public annoyed quoting driver salaries rather than those of the workers on strike.

Oh, and driverless trains need properly maintained infrastrucure, if not more so.
 
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Lots of people work hard, think of the carers who are on minimum wage and get no allowances for extra time spent with patients, and indeed unpaid carers who give up their time to pay for volunteers. Think of the RNLI, a charity with no government support whatsoever, funded by donations, putting their lives art risk to save others. The RMT would be better to keep their powder dry until they deserve more, they got a good deal last year, and eventually they will lose everybody’s support.
 
hampshireblue said:
Have a listen to LBC at 1140 this morning. This is not, in the main, about the drivers. It's about the maintenance and signalling staff. Most of the drivers are arriving at work, but as the maintenance and signalling staff are the ones on strike, they can't drive the trains. Not reported generally as the drivers are the higher paid and it's more newsworthy to get the public annoyed quoting driver salaries rather than those of the workers on strike.

Oh, and driverless trains need properly maintained infrastrucure, if not more so.
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I was just replying to the driverless train/tesla comment, I actually support striking in general, but think RMT have worn out most people's patience (this is their 29th strike since 2022 and triple that with the other rail unions) and I'm not sure why rail workers deserve to only work 32 hours a week.
 
domalino said:
I was just replying to the driverless train/tesla comment, I actually support striking in general, but think RMT have worn out most people's patience (this is their 29th strike since 2022 and triple that with the other rail unions) and I'm not sure why rail workers deserve to only work 32 hours a week.
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If I was the RMT and ASLEF, I would get together so one of them is representing the drivers and the other the "support" staff. That way, it is clear to the public who is protesting and why.

As for the 32 hour week, fatigue is a major issue in some industries. The job I had was conditioned to a 33 hour week, but we never actually worked a normal week so it was averaged out. The roster would start with 2 shifts meaning a wake up at anything from 0400 to 0600, followed by 2 that would end at 2200-2330 followed by either 2 nights or another 2 0600 starts and then 4 days off. Up until about 50yo, it was OK, after that and after doing many years of those shifts it was really knackering and taking its' toll. It was a safety critical role with little margin for error.

Early starts and very late finishes are a recipe for disaster especially if they are mixed around. We, as a union, did everything we could to ensure, as far as possible, that the duties progressed from early to late. I can fully understand if it's not a "progressive" roster why 32 hours would be an aim.
 
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