Do you support the RMT?

[west didsblue]

There is no extreme left in it. And as for extreme? How is it extreme to want a fairer distribution of wealth? A properly funded NHS? An education system that meets the needs of the country both for social and economic reasons. To pay a pension to people who have worked their whole lives in jobs that pay is so bad they don’t have enough to live on. To ensure no old person needs to choose between heat and food? That no child lives in poverty? That no worker lives in poverty. That our transport system is up to the job and doesn’t require you to sell a kidney to take a train journey? That 1200 food banks are consigned to a shameful part of our history with those who wilfully caused them reviled for their greed and disdain. These things are not extreme. What is extreme are the forces that would rather we kept millions in poverty, old people scared to switch their heating on and workers getting paid wages that puts them in poverty.

That extreme left wing is a creation of extreme right wing drip fed propoganda used to put fear into people who then vote against their interests.
Nobody is talking about Factory Farns, Five Year Plans, worship of the Party. Project fear has worked and the only extreme thing going on is the absence of compassion by those who have all the wealth and want to keep it that way. I am not extreme, I am fucking angry our people have been turned into docile subservient serfs, tugging their forelock’s and they get bent over a bare table and shafted.

You're having a discussion with a bloke who made his money by winning a gamble with borrowed money in the middle of a global financial crisis - disaster capitalism personified. I'm not criticising him for having the foresight to do that but his views on industrial relations and politics in general are worth jack shit because he clearly has no interest in the plight of the serfs that actually generate the wealth that built the country in the first place.

 

[mat]

Yeah but it’s all still overtime, right?

So if the government say no overtime then it’s no trains surely?

With regards to where I work. They will run trains where commited Sundays and inclusive Sunday contractes workers are booked according to their roster. Which could be a proper farce of the OT ban is imposed.

 

[metalblue]

I'm not bitching about my lot you fucking bellend! I even said in a previous post upthread that it's a great place to work at. Despite getting a pay rise that is far below inflation, I see the wider picture with our firm. We're a small outfit that took a huge hit during the pandemic, but unlike many company owners the 2 guys who own our place don't raid the coffers of every penny they make in profit, instead choosing to re-invest most of it back into the company so when Covid hit we were fortunate enough to have a financial buffer which, along with the various Covid financial schemes, helped see us through when a lot of other firms would've gone bust. So despite only getting a 3% pay rise this year, I'm actually grateful that I've still got a fucking job (plus I know that if we do well over the next 12 months I'll get a bigger rise next year). That doesn't mean I don't support the actions of the RMT though, and if they can secure a 7% pay rise for their workers then good luck to them.

People like you just need to realise that not every single sector of industry and the way those industries function are all identical.

The primary difference is you can go find a job somewhere else if you aren’t happy. This keeps your employer “looking after you”. As you rightly say you’ll hopefully get a rise next year… what should happen is your boss will have increased his prices and he will use that extra money to pay his workers more.

In industries where there isn’t this mobility of workers from one employer to another all competing for the same customers unions are needed to negotiate a pay deal because free market forces aren’t at play.

So to suggest you need a Union for better pay and conditions is bollocks. You’ve got your own 2 feet for that, as do I. If I didn’t have that option I’d be in a Union.

 

[Magicpole]

You're having a discussion with a bloke who made his money by winning a gamble with borrowed money in the middle of a global financial crisis - disaster capitalism personified. I'm not criticising him for having the foresight to do that but his views on industrial relations and politics in general are worth jack shit because he clearly has no interest in the plight of the serfs that actually generate the wealth that built the country in the first place.

I also don’t have an issue with people making money. I just want it taxed appropriately.

 

[metalblue]

I also don’t have an issue with people making money. I just want it taxed appropriately.

What constitutes “appropriately”?

 

[mat]

I totally agree. There has to be a balance. While I have my reservations about this strike, those reservations are only down to the many ordinary folk who will be inconvenienced by it. On the flip side, I'm loving seeing Mick Lynch ripping the politicians and various other clowns to shreds plus from what I can see the RMT aren't asking for anything particularly outrageous. 7% is below the inflation rate so it's not like they're taking the piss.

Talking to other members on picket they'd accept 5% and a commitment of no mandatory redundancies. The "modernisation" of the railway can then be done via negotiations at the table.

I think it very simple to stop to sort. However, and I don't want to say the words as it puts people off. I believe the Tories have declared class war on us and want to stretch the dispute out to destroy my union.

It could go on until the next election at this rate. I would like my union to box clever if that's the case to maintain support for the action. And I will be pushing that at our meetings after the first wave of action has concluded.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

How many SMEs are like that? If a company is that precarious, in a labour seller's market you'd be better off looking for a more secure job anyway.

It's a situation that isn't that relevant - and if it is true that unions can use their bargaining power for better wages and better conditions (like the weekend off), in the end that becomes the expectation for employees in other sectors.

Pretty much. Also raises the question of whether the business should be owned by some of its employees. Or rather that they could set up a new firm themselves at least that way they have the chance of being rewarded for their graft.

Other than being rewarded with "job security" in an insecure situation.

 

[M18CTID]

The primary difference is you can go find a job somewhere else if you aren’t happy. This keeps your employer “looking after you”. As you rightly say you’ll hopefully get a rise next year… what should happen is your boss will have increased his prices and he will use that extra money to pay his workers more.

In industries where there isn’t this mobility of workers from one employer to another all competing for the same customers unions are needed to negotiate a pay deal because free market forces aren’t at play.

So to suggest you need a Union for better pay and conditions is bollocks. You’ve got your own 2 feet for that, as do I. If I didn’t have that option I’d be in a Union.

Generally, you can with most jobs yes, but there literally aren't that many, if any jobs, available locally in terms of the job I do in our industry. I could probably find something if I looked further afield and to paraphrase Norman Tebbit, got on my bike though.

But that's all academic as like I've said, I'm happy where I am. To the point that if I was ever head-hunted I would only be tempted by a salary that was at least 25% more than I'm receiving now, because for all I know I could be going into a less secure job.

 

[M18CTID]

Talking to other members on picket they'd accept 5% and a commitment of no mandatory redundancies. The "modernisation" of the railway can then be done via negotiations at the table.

I think it very simple to stop to sort. However, and I don't want to say the words as it puts people off. I believe the Tories have declared class war on us and want to stretch the dispute out to destroy my union.

It could go on until the next election at this rate. I would like my union to box clever if that's the case to maintain support for the action. And I will be pushing that at our meetings after the first wave of action has concluded.

Sounds like the 2 sides aren't a million miles apart in terms of the pay but it's the redundancy issue that's the main sticking point?

 

[mat]

Sounds like the 2 sides aren't a million miles apart in terms of the pay but it's the redundancy issue that's the main sticking point?

That's the impression I get as well.

The government would have no trouble with getting the redundancies voluntarily. The last round with Network Rail and TOCs were over subscribed with people wanting out.