Donald Trump

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domalino said:
Yeah, there's a reason that video was written in 2015 before he'd opened his mouth much.
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Mate, I’m not arguing Trump’s case. I’m not on Trump’s side.

But if you watch Trump’s incoherent rants, he generally does exactly what it says on that video.

He speaks in simple (as in one clause) sentences. He rarely uses words of more than 2 syllables (other than “tremendous”).

And he constructs his sentences in an awkward way to get the most impactful word as the last word of the sentence.

On the surface it may look like he speaks like a child, but I genuinely think there’s more going on linguistically than him just being thick and inarticulate.

He speaks like that for a purpose. (All be it a dastardly, manipulative one).
 
Shaelumstash said:
Mate, I’m not arguing Trump’s case. I’m not on Trump’s side.

But if you watch Trump’s incoherent rants, he generally does exactly what it says on that video.

He speaks in simple (as in one clause) sentences. He rarely uses words of more than 2 syllables (other than “tremendous”).

And he constructs his sentences in an awkward way to get the most impactful word as the last word of the sentence.

On the surface it may look like he speaks like a child, but I genuinely think there’s more going on linguistically than him just being thick and inarticulate.

He speaks like that for a purpose. (All be it a dastardly, manipulative one).
Click to expand...

You are falling into the trap of thinking there must be some method to the madness.

There isnt. He isnt coming across as a babbling incoherent idiot because he has a grand master plan, he does it because that's what he is and it's how he has spoken since he was first in the media as a 20 year old hanging onto his daddy's coattails to pretend he was a businessman.

Also he does not speak in simple one clause sentences. That is a complete lie and anyone who has seen a press conference knows that. He rambles, stutters, hits tangents and often drags a simple answer into multiple paragraphs long sentences.

So you're either arguing in bad faith or lieing to yourself.
 
domalino said:
You are falling into the trap of thinking there must be some method to the madness.

There isnt. He isnt coming across as a babbling incoherent idiot because he has a grand master plan, he does it because that's what he is and it's how he has spoken since he was first in the media as a 20 year old hanging onto his daddy's coattails to pretend he was a businessman.

Also he does not speak in simple one clause sentences. That is a complete lie and anyone who has seen a press conference knows that. He rambles, stutters, hits tangents and often drags a simple answer into multiple paragraphs long sentences.

So you're either arguing in bad faith or lieing to yourself.
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When I talk about simple and complex sentences, I’m talking about the grammatical definition.

Trump rambles, but he deliberately talks in simple sentences.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_clause_structure
 
journolud said:
I think you mean certain posts on this thread worry you and they are very much in the minority if they exist at all wishing trump or his supporters get the virus and wishing the drugs he touts and almost certainly has a financial interest in fails.

If you are a New Yorker you have all our sympathies and you would be right to worry about the virus. Don’t obfuscate though, it’s poor from you to build straw men like that
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Like I clearly stated in my post, it's not the 'off color post' that worry me.
What worries, is the callous wishing that someone they don't know get the disease and die. And no one finding it alarming...
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It's the absence of any objections to such extreme claims that's worrying...

But In a haste to dismiss my point, you've created an actual strawman of my position and then used that strawman to turn around and accuse me of creating a strawman.

Anyway, could have just been a mistake on your part, seeing as my post was God awful long and a deserving candidate for skip reading.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
Have you not watched Tiger King yet on Netflix?
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As someone who has a great command of the language, it would be interesting to get your take on this mate.

I think there’s a bit of a misconception that journalists who write for the tabloids where the required reading age is about 8, are not as skilled with language as those who write in complex prose for the broadsheets.

I personally feel the reverse is often true. The best linguists are often those that can articulate themselves in the fewest words with the most simple language.

As someone who works in the industry, what’s your view on that?
 
Shaelumstash said:
When I talk about simple and complex sentences, I’m talking about the grammatical definition.

Trump rambles, but he deliberately talks in simple sentences.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_clause_structure
Click to expand...

I know what a simple sentence is, and Trump doesn't speak in them.



“Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible.”

"I have to start by saying I'm a big fan, a very big fan, of the United Nations and all it stands for... the concept of the United Nations and the fact that the United Nations is in New York is very important to me and very important to the world, as far as I am concerned. So I am a big fan.

“I got out there they start saying all this stuff... she gets out and she starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions. You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever...”

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending the best. They're not sending you, they're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems. They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime. They're rapists and some, I assume, are good people, but I speak to border guards and they're telling us what we're getting."

“I will build a great wall – and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me – and I’ll build them very inexpensively.

I looked happy, I looked content, I looked like a very nice person, which in theory I am.'

'Number one, I have great respect for women. I was the one that really broke the glass ceiling on behalf of women, more than anybody in the construction industry. My relationship, I think, is going to end up being very good with women.'

"If you love birds, you’d never want to walk under a windmill, because it’s a very sad, sad sight. It’s like a cemetery. We put a little statue for the poor birds."

“You talk about the carbon footprint, fumes are spewing into the air, right? Spewing. Whether it’s in China, Germany, it’s going into the air, it’s our air, their air, everything, right?”


Again you're lying to yourself. And probably confusing the tiny sentences his speech writers put on a teleprompter to follow with the word salad, stream of conciousness blabbering that comes out when he goes off script.
 
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Shaelumstash said:
As someone who has a great command of the language, it would be interesting to get your take on this mate.

I think there’s a bit of a misconception that journalists who write for the tabloids where the required reading age is about 8, are not as skilled with language as those who write in complex prose for the broadsheets.

I personally feel the reverse is often true. The best linguists are often those that can articulate themselves in the fewest words with the most simple language.

As someone who works in the industry, what’s your view on that?
Click to expand...

I can only speak for myself, if anything, the prose and articulation was already there.

However, learning to be concise, use the lexicon of in-house tabloid puns and play on words, it is an extreme skill - certainly not one many can now grasp. The greatest test of a football journalist was a match report prior to technology.

For example, you have a 900 word match report - 400 at half-time - 300 at 3/4 time and and 200 word intro directly on the final whistle.

When I first did my training I would suffer greatly from anxiety because you aren't in control of the in-match situation at any time - the 400 half-time runner would be fine, that's the guts of the piece - the colour (prose)

The 70-minute piece was then constructed to follow the half-time piece - I would be ringing over my copy trying to be heard with the copytaker when a goal would go in and totally fuck the add piece. I would be add-libbing it off the top of my head and would receive a word count.

The full whistle intro is all ready to go and complete the runners you have sent -'top and tail' when an goal in added-on time (maybe even two) fucks up the entire copy you have sent previously.

Que add-libbing and waxing lyrical a new intro over before you rush downstairs, try and catch the manager for quotes and then two 900 word rewrites for both teams for the respective editions less than an hour after the final whistle.

All the time, with mayhem going on, the crowd celebrating and not hearing yourself think.

It's why broadsheet writers tend to stay in that comfort zone and don't ever cross over to the tabloid demands. They can sit there considering a one-piece report an hour after the final whistle.

Once laptops came in, that made life somewhat easier, being able to cut, copy and paste, but the demands to think quickly and on your feet are still there.

I learned why use twenty words when ten will do - get the message across clearly and as easily as possible.

I am 45 now and started in a newsroom on my 16th birthday - I have had the best of both worlds.

I would say it is mainly the reader who holds the inverted snobbery towards tabloid writers - a perception they are being told something better and more intelligently by a broadsheet writer.

The truth is they are getting the same tale. A broadsheet writer, perhaps, would struggle more with the tabloid demands on a day-to-day basis.

Not to denigrate broadsheet writers at all. I couldn't do it.
 
Shaelumstash said:
Mate, I’m not arguing Trump’s case. I’m not on Trump’s side.

But if you watch Trump’s incoherent rants, he generally does exactly what it says on that video.

He speaks in simple (as in one clause) sentences. He rarely uses words of more than 2 syllables (other than “tremendous”).

And he constructs his sentences in an awkward way to get the most impactful word as the last word of the sentence.

On the surface it may look like he speaks like a child, but I genuinely think there’s more going on linguistically than him just being thick and inarticulate.

He speaks like that for a purpose. (All be it a dastardly, manipulative one).
Click to expand...
It's by accident, not by design.
 
domalino said:
I know what a simple sentence is, and Trump doesn't speak in them.



“Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible.”

"I have to start by saying I'm a big fan, a very big fan, of the United Nations and all it stands for... the concept of the United Nations and the fact that the United Nations is in New York is very important to me and very important to the world, as far as I am concerned. So I am a big fan.

“I got out there they start saying all this stuff... she gets out and she starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions. You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever...”

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending the best. They're not sending you, they're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems. They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime. They're rapists and some, I assume, are good people, but I speak to border guards and they're telling us what we're getting."

“I will build a great wall – and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me – and I’ll build them very inexpensively.

I looked happy, I looked content, I looked like a very nice person, which in theory I am.'

'Number one, I have great respect for women. I was the one that really broke the glass ceiling on behalf of women, more than anybody in the construction industry. My relationship, I think, is going to end up being very good with women.'

"If you love birds, you’d never want to walk under a windmill, because it’s a very sad, sad sight. It’s like a cemetery. We put a little statue for the poor birds."

“You talk about the carbon footprint, fumes are spewing into the air, right? Spewing. Whether it’s in China, Germany, it’s going into the air, it’s our air, their air, everything, right?”


Again you're lying to yourself. And probably confusing the tiny sentences his speech writers put on a teleprompter to follow with the word salad, stream of conciousness blabbering that comes out when he goes off script.
Click to expand...

Ok, so Trump’s thick because the language he uses is too simple. And too complex. Gotcha.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
I can only speak for myself, if anything, the prose and articulation was already there.

However, learning to be concise, use the lexicon of in-house tabloid puns and play on words, it is an extreme skill - certainly not one many can now grasp. The greatest test of a football journalist was a match report prior to technology.

For example, you have a 900 word match report - 400 at half-time - 300 at 3/4 time and and 200 word intro directly on the final whistle.

When I first did my training I would suffer greatly from anxiety because you aren't in control of the in-match situation at any time - the 400 half-time runner would be fine, that's the guts of the piece - the colour (prose)

The 70-minute piece was then constructed to follow the half-time piece - I would be ringing over my copy trying to be heard with the copytaker when a goal would go in and totally fuck the add piece. I would be add-libbing it off the top of my head and would receive a word count.

The full whistle intro is all ready to go and complete the runners you have sent -'top and tail' when an goal in added-on time (maybe even two) fucks up the entire copy you have sent previously.

Que add-libbing and waxing lyrical a new intro over before you rush downstairs, try and catch the manager for quotes and then two 900 word rewrites for both teams for the respective editions less than an hour after the final whistle.

All the time, with mayhem going on, the crowd celebrating and not hearing yourself think.

It's why broadsheet writers tend to stay in that comfort zone and don't ever cross over to the tabloid demands. They can sit there considering a one-piece report an hour after the final whistle.

Once laptops came in, that made life somewhat easier, being able to cut, copy and paste, but the demands to think quickly and on your feet are still there.

I learned why use twenty words when ten will do - get the message across clearly and as easily as possible.

I am 45 now and started in a newsroom on my 16th birthday - I have had the best of both worlds.

I would say it is mainly the reader who holds the inverted snobbery towards tabloid writers - a perception they are being told something better and more intelligently by a broadsheet writer.

The truth is they are getting the same tale. A broadsheet writer, perhaps, would struggle more with the tabloid demands on a day-to-day basis.

Not to denigrate broadsheet writers at all. I couldn't do it.
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Fantastic insight, thanks for that.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
It's by accident, not by design.
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I honestly think it’s by design.

It’s not easy to construct sentences where the most impactful word comes as the last word.

To do that consistently when talking off the top of your head actually takes a lot of skill.

I think that’s taken a great deal of practice and is no mistake.
 
Shaelumstash said:
You’re absolutely right, he speaks in incredibly simple language.

But I don’t think that necessarily makes him stupid. In my view, some of the most talented linguists in the world work in advertising and their job is to make a point in the fewest words possible.

Check this video on how he uses language. I don’t think he’s as stupid as he appears.

Click to expand...

I’ll give it a watch mate, ta.

But many of his sentences make no sense at all, some aren’t even a sentence in English despite using English words, or they’re full of contradictions.

For example; “we’ll have a... an economy based on WIND! You, I never understood wind, you know. I mean, you, I know windmills very much. I’ve studied it better than anybody, I know it’s very expensive.”

They’re almost just a string of random words. Some don’t go with the previous or subsequent word. It means absolutely nothing.
 
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Shaelumstash said:
I honestly think it’s by design.

It’s not easy to construct sentences where the most impactful word comes as the last word.

To do that consistently when talking off the top of your head actually takes a lot of skill.

I think that’s taken a great deal of practice and is no mistake.
Click to expand...
Plus, he’s almost certainly off his noodle most of time. I’d be staggered if that wasn’t the case.

 
Shaelumstash said:
I honestly think it’s by design.

It’s not easy to construct sentences where the most impactful word comes as the last word.

To do that consistently when talking off the top of your head actually takes a lot of skill.

I think that’s taken a great deal of practice and is no mistake.
Click to expand...
Have you ever seen footage of Trump talking in full and complex sentences without it being scripted? I'm almost certain the answer will be no, but if it's yes please post a link because I'm genuinely interested in seeing it.

I believe he deliberately talks in simple sentences because he is incapable articulating complex language structure without a teleprompter, auto-cue or script; even then he struggles.

It's as if there is some sort of cognitive impairment between his thought processes and the areas of the brain responsible for speech. One theory is that Trump is a long term drug abuser (Adderall/Amphetamine), and there are people who will attest to this. It would certainly explain a lot.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
I’ll give it a watch mate, ta.

But many of his sentences make no sense at all, some aren’t even a sentence in English despite using English words, or they’re full of contradictions.

For example; “we’ll have a... an economy based on WIND! You, I never understood wind, you know. I mean, you, I know windmills very much. I’ve studied it better than anybody, I know it’s very expensive.”

They’re almost just a string of random words. Some don’t go with the previous or subsequent word. It means absolutely nothing.
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Who is the target audience though? Not you or I. Woop woop MAGA. It appeals to some.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Have you ever seen footage of Trump talking in full and complex sentences without it being scripted? I'm almost certain the answer will be no, but if it's yes please post a link because I'm genuinely interested in seeing it.

I believe he deliberately talks in simple sentences because he is incapable articulating complex language structure without a teleprompter, auto-cue or script; even then he struggles.

It's as if there is some sort of cognitive impairment between his thought processes and the areas of the brain responsible for speech. One theory is that Trump is a long term drug abuser (Adderall/Amphetamine), and there are people who will attest to this. It would certainly explain a lot.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t rule out that he’s a long term drug abuser.

I’m in absolutely no doubt that he’s a narcissist.

To be diagnosed as a narcissist, you have to show signs of at least 5 of the following characteristics:
  1. Grandiosity with expectations of superior treatment by others.
  2. Fixated on fantasies of power, success, intelligence, attractiveness, etc.
  3. Self-perception of being unique, superior, and associated with high-status people and institutions.
  4. Needing constant admiration from others.
  5. Sense of entitlement to special treatment and to obedience from others.
  6. Exploitative of others to achieve personal gain.
  7. Unwilling to empathize with others' feelings, wishes, or needs.
  8. Intensely jealous of others and the belief that others are equally jealous of them.
  9. Pompous and arrogant demeanour.
Trump’s a full house.
 
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